Support for dropping the nap part 12

[Scottishmummy]

Hard to know what's best, isn't it.

DS was kicking up a fuss even about quiet time so we decided to try dropping the nap and just going for down time with TV or stories after lunch & EBT.  It was working & he was coping, much less sleepy & grumpy for getting a longer night....until today when he fell asleep on the sofa around 5pm, we woke him to eat his tea & he had a major meltdown over a fish finger 30 mins later.  We got him to bed by 6.30 but he sobbed on & off the whole time. Clearly OT, which he has never coped well with.  So now wondering whether to go back to encouraging quiet/nap time more strongly, trying for a nap some days or keep with no nap & aim for even earlier BT.

[Truly Blessed]

SM it may be that he just takes a nap every so often, and it works out okay. It also may be that on those days he will always be grumpy and peed off when you wake him from it, but lots of us got by by 'eventually' allowing the LO's to dictate their own pattern when things got rough. Mainly because our dictations didn't work out so well anyway ha ha

It is also about how your LO needs their sleep spread. So SM on a nap day even if he falls asleep late and he has a late night therefore a short night, it is a possibility that he will still feel better for it the day after, because the 'spread' was right IYKWIM?

Skadiver, some LO's do much better with a nap and shorter night even if adds up to less sleep overall.

Whatever you decide I've got my fingers crossed for you.x.

[Scottishmummy]

Thank you TB. DS is giving me no choice but to follow what he dictates! After yesterday's meltdown, I tried for quiet time to give chance for a nap today but he determinedly refused any set up that could possibly be conducive to sleep (although he was very keen on playing a game which involved him sitting under his duvet pretending to sleep!). So another NND but with 30 mins lying on sofa watching TV   after lunch & playing quietly at home for another hour after that. Made it to bedtime without tears tonight though, so that felt better.

[Scottishmummy]

DS has had no nap for about 10 days now.  We have been doing EBT (7pm) and at first he was doing a 13 hour night but in last 2 days his wake up time has been 6-6.30.  Could he have adapted to no nap so quickly? Debating whether to continue with 7pm or push BT back to 7.30 again.

[Skadiver13]

Could he actually being building up OT? In days he wakes at 6 what about an ebt of 6.

[Scottishmummy]

Skadiver: The thought had crossed my mind but I don't think DH or I are brave enough to risk a bedtime of 6pm....and it would be tricky to juggle with our mealtime & DD's bedtime too. 
DS did a 12 hr night last night (7-7) & slept an hour at nursery today (maybe easier to get him to sleep there as most of the other kids are lying down) so we did a 7.30 BT tonight. Will see what WU time that gives us tomorrow...

[Kellyjs]

Hi all, think it might be about time I join you  . Just been through an ear infection ver xmas, then developmental call backs at BT, this in turn has lead to nap refusals, or the nap being so late it's messed with BT.

DD is pulling 14+ hr days on just 45mins naps, so have chopped it back to 30mins when she does sleep. That helped with settling for BT for two days, back to taking her usual 30mins of singing to go back to sleep. We're still getting multiple call backs to use the toilet as well. 9/10 times she does go, but it's still getting frustrating. Before all this craziness she was on her way to being NT dry too, not so much anymore.

So what i have found so far is 2 NND's are ok. By the third we get terrible tantrums in the morning. She will not sleep over 11hrs ONS, maybe 11.5 if we're lucky. It's about right considering her total sleep in 24hrs is about the same. After 2 NND's i gave her an hour nap, obviously too long as she didn't go to sleep until 9pm after wu that morning at 6 

So any thing i can do other than ride it out? What's worked for you lovely ladies? She's about to refuse her nap today by the looks of it. Shall i keep trying for a nap every day at this point or just once every third day or if her mood is particularly bad? She won't nap on the sofa.. she'll only sit still for 15mins if the awful peppa pig is on, otherwise she copes very well with busy NND's when we're out for the day.

Opps forgot to post what we're doing atm:

NND
wu 6.30
BT 7 asleep 7.20/30

or nap

wu 6.30
nap 2-2.30
BT 8 asleep 9 onwards

TIA xx

[nona]

my DD was napping a few days a week prior to christmas. (she will be 4 this feb btw.)  she was too excited to nap over the christmas holidays and has maybe napped once since.  I preferred her to nap  - even if it meant a later bedtime  - bc otherwise we can't leave the house to grab dinner or an errand. I realize she was going to drop the nap sooner that later was hoping for later .

anyway, i still like her to have quiet time  - she plays in her room and reads books contently most of the time.

 it can be frustrating bc if we need to go anywhere around 4pm or on she will fall asleep in the car and she will sometimes fall asleep on the couch after preschool (she attends on T/TH 9-2).  so i feel like we can't run errands or anything so i can get her to bed by 7pm.

however, what i don't understand is that she is waking up SOOOOO early. my DS ( 9 yo) tells me she will crawl into bed with him around 5am and may fall back to sleep but then wakes up soon after and is up for the day. Then she can be walking around the house alone getting into stuff. 

so first thing is she is waking up my DS who needs his sleep for school  (can solve that problem by "locking" her in her room) but i don't understand why she is waking up so early??? i mean she is barely getting more sleep than my 9 yo. ? do you think she will adjust soon?

[Skadiver13]

On days she wakes early what time is she going to bed? On this days can uou get a 30min cat nap in the car?

[nona]

my goal is to have her in bad by 7pm or a little earlier. TBH, some days i am not sure what time she is up in the morning! i don't wake up until 650-7 and my DH is up early and but he isn't paying attention. my DS will tell me a time but i can't believe he is actually looking at the clock...

as far as cat nap...we aren't always driving around in the evening for her to take a nap but i think a cat nap would be ideal (however, she is really grumpy after those). she is never grumpy if she wakes on her own though.

i did put her down for quiet time today and good chance she might nap today.

[Kellyjs]

How did it go Heather? We had nap refusal yesterday too  . Tbh she was in such a great mood I didn't enforce it and tried the option of lying down on the sofa, well that didn't work! We get grumpiness too after waking her up. It seems like we fight for her to take a nap, then only to wake her 30mins later and be in a worse mood than before is a bit rubbish 

I too don't fancy driving around in the afternoons atm, it's cold here ad we tend to get most of our stuff done in the mornings. We managed 11.5hrs ONS today rather than the 9/10 we were getting so at least we can try and push forward with the 12hr day with a reasonable BT if she refuses her nap today. I hate 5am wu's! Here holding your hand xx

[Scottishmummy]

We get the grumpiness after any nap now too, takes DS about an hour to come round from a 30-45 min nap. 

We have started setting BT to 7pm regardless of nap or NND now (normal time when he napped every day used to be 7.30, asleep by 8pm ) DS's WU time varies from 6-8am with no clear pattern or relation to napping or not so I figure he still has some residual tiredness even on nap days & it makes it easier for us to just choose a time & stick to it.

How are you filling your LO's afternoons without the nap now? We used to be home 12-3 to allow for lunch & nap but I'm finding DS is getting very bored and then hyper, turning into naughtiness from about 1.30 onwards on NNDs and it's a long afternoon to fill.  I'm not sure what I'll do with him when DD starts taking a regular after lunch nap & we need to be at home.

[KatyBee]

Please, is there any way to get out of the nap & EW cycle with my LSN son (29mo)?

AT 27mo, he started refusing the nap every day and we were doing mostly NNDs + >11hrs ONS until a couple of weeks ago, but he started needing the nap back more & more until it is now a daily fixture again and now we seem to have fallen further and further into a nap trap. My son is so exhausted & he definitely isn't getting enough sleep.

This is roughly what our days are looking like...

wu 5:30/40am
Nap 12:15 - 12:55 (after nursery)... I have also tried capping his nap to 20 mins but then he just gets less sleep overall in 24 hours, so I switched back to when he naturally wakes - 40 min
BT 8pm .... he was in bed before 7:30pm but took until 7:55pm to fall asleep (independently)

His day is so long that he is a combo of OT/UT (from the nap) which is causing him fight BT and to wake early, exhausted but totally unable to resettle and tell me the whole time how tired he is.He is averaging between 10-10.5 hours in 24, which means less than 10 at night.

I tried to push on through for a NND day a few days ago, which resulted in total meltdown & crashing by 2pm and so that threw us off even more as BT was even later.

Do we just have to keep playing each day by ear or is there a method to get back on track either with a nap or without?

[Scottishmummy]

If you find the solution, please let me know! We're in a very similar situation here. DS was doing pretty well with mostly NNDs and an occasional catch up nap but had a bad cold this week which really disrupted his night sleep, then he had naps but some were in the car so were cut too short to be restorative but enough to prevent any further sleep. He's been waking at 6am all week and doing 13hr days. Today we had a meltdown but also complete nap refusal so are trying SEBT (6pm, giving him a 12 hr day) & keeping everything crossed this doesn't give us a 5am start tomorrow.

KatyBee- that's a very early start and a long day, you must be exhausted too! I wonder if you need to get a NND and an EBT (even a SEBT!)  to get him to catch up with some quality night sleep.  On the day you tried a NND and he crashed, did you do quiet time instead of the nap? My DS watches about an hour of TV at the time he used to nap, which keeps him awake but gives him rest and zones him out for a bit which helps him get through the rest of the afternoon.

[Kellyjs]

We're with you here too... Super long days with the nap when it does happen. We're averaging 9-10hrs ONS. And that's with only a 30mins nap! Too many NND's = absolutely awful behaviour!

I wonder if it's worth pushing the nap much later KatyBee? It's great he's actually taking it at that time, but as you said it is UT and perhaps he's OT by BT? We too have a bubba that takes ages to wind down at BT, so I don't see that too much of an issue. Perhaps if you could push the nap closer to 1pm for 40mins capped it might help? Someone once told me on here that the idea is the first A can be long, then a short CN isn't restorative then the first A rides out over the shorter second? Not sure if that akes sense 

Fx there's no 5am wu for you scottishmummy xx