help with 8 month old who won't settle but doesnt like to be picked up

[Kellyjs]

I'd go for 3hrs 45 minimum considering 3hrs 30 after an hour long nap used to only give you 1hr 10mins UT nap x

[tashgordon]

Hi
Thanks for your advice.
Still not managing to get rid of early wake ups and in fact having several 4.30 or 5 and am wiling to accept 5.130 as normal/good!!!

I am trying to get my head around the different variables whilst I test out different routines, are they the following:
1. Total amount of naptime sleep
2. Morning nap length
3. Afternoon nap length
4.?also is last AT importnant?/

So generally we are doing:

5.30am wake
9.15 ish for an hour or less(yesterday adn today was 50 adn 45 min)
so wake up 10.15ish
1.45 - 3.10
7pm BT

I think there might be a pattern that when he has 1.5hrs in afternoon he wakes up earlier but due to being away last week routine was fairly variable, some days  2 x 1hr naps other days shorter first and longer 2nd.

Could it be possible he only needs 2hrs daytime sleep and 10.5hrs nighttime sleep?

He learnt to walk 2 weeks ago and is now attempting to run, he is also vocalising lots so could EMW be developmental?

Also currently has a bit of a cold which I am sure doesn't help, he seems more tired but am a bit scared to let him have longer naps, or should I whilst ill?

Thanks again
T

[Kellyjs]

Yep could definitely be developmental hun. I would think it's slightly unlikely he only needs that amount of sleep but it's certainly not unheard of at all. Do you think he might be slightly OT after the crazy week you've had?

I would try and stick with what you were doing before you went away for at least 3 days if you can and see if there's a pattern to the WU's in the morning. That's still quite a long day you had before but with those naps he shouldn't be OT too much. Want to stick with it for a few days to see?

I find when DD has a cold she doesn't really sleep much more, the nights are more disturbed with the blocked nose etc but if anything I might let her have 15mins more at most for the nap and either stick with regular BT or do slightly earlier. It's hard to judge from afar, you'll be able to gauge this one best being there and his temperament x

[tashgordon]

Hi

I wish  I could say I hadn't been in touch because we had sorted his EW!!! but no.

Currently life looks like this :

wakes between 4.20 and 5.30.
I try to get back to sleep in cot, sometimes works , sometimes dowesn't
If I don't I take him to bed and feed him and then he sometimes goes back to sleep but not always....
So actual wake up is generally between 5.30 and 6.30
He then naps around 9.15 or 9.30 usually for an hour
Then he naps around 1.45 or 2pm for an hour
and he goes to bed at about 7pm.

I don't think he is OT as he is generally happy.
He still is not keen on going down for a nap.

Mostly now I shush from just outside his bedroom door for 5-10min which is an improvement, sometimes it takes  a bit longer or needs me to go in adn put him back down.

I think before I wasn't convinced it was the 2-1 transition but now he is 1 year and 2 weeks I recognise this is the likely cause.

What I feel unsure about is how to move the morning nap time when the monring wake up is variable and also he may have woken up, been back to sleep and then woken.

I feel like I need a plan as I went back to work 2 weeks ago and 4.30 wkae ups are feeling very hard.

Should I fix nap times and then shorten the 1st nap by 15mins.
e.g. 9.30am but wake after 45mins adn then when is 2nd nap?

I know this won't last forever but it feels like a slog right now.
xx

[Kellyjs]

Oh bless you hun, they are early starts, you must be exhausted. I'm really thinking that first nap is too early now so probably not helping with the EW. Especially during the 2-1, wu is a sure sign something needs to change (or teething is going on!).

It is a long day, and really good to know he can do 5hrs last A to BT. So if we sort the EW I really think you're not too far off being on one nap. That said, this is a process and will require a bit of flexibility. Is he in day care hun? Are they able to pd for naps when you say or is it dedicated by them? Just thought I'd check before we make a plan! Given your day atm, I'd look at shortening that first nap to 45mins initially, perhaps keep the second nap as is to see if it lengthens slightly. It will need capping back more soon.if that's doable? I'll post a link for you to have a read through which was a godsend when we were going through it xx

From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)

Oh and I'll just move you over to toddler sleep now he's over 1yo xx

[tashgordon]

Thanks.

We share a nanny with another family so we can dictate when naps are within eason.

Main constraint is school drop offs adn pick ups but this week is still easter holidays .

do i need to post elsewhere or do you magically move all of this to toddlerland?

thanks

[Kellyjs]

All done sweetie, just thought I'd tell you in case you went looking for it 

Ok, what I think I'd do is try for the nap at 9.30am irrelevant of wu time (a kind of set nap route). This helps as it stops you worrying about A time so much and what time they wake.

Then I'd cap that nap at 45mins firstly for a week or so (depending how things go), then keep the next nap at 1.45/2 and let him sleep for up to 1.5hrs (if that happens). BT can then stay the same.

I do think he'll cope with a good shake up with the routine given he's not too keen on going down for naps anyway, but this is a good place to start. Some bubbas don't do too well on the short am, long pm route but as he's prone to EW's I think this might be the best way to go for a bit to try and see. Wdyt? Xx

[tashgordon]

Great.
Also easier to give instructions to others if times are fixed.

He slept 9.30 for 45min this am and I struggled to get him down for 1.45, eventually fell asleep about 1.55 for about an hour, also hard to get him to sleep this eve.

I think he is genuinely someone who doesnt want ot miss out adn go to sleep and as big brother is around due to easter holidays he had avery exciting day so that might also contribute.

Once school is back I will have to wake him by 3.15 latest to do school run.

Thanks

[Kellyjs]

How's it going now hun? Xx

[tashgordon]

Have been getting him down for 9.30 adn waking him at 10.15
Most afternoons he has only slept an hour from about 1.50 ish, yesterday he slept 1hr 10min.

He is still waking at 4-5am but with either holdinghis arms down by his sides or if that doesnt work after a while feeding him in our bed (dont tell me off please...) be generally goes back to sleep for 45min or more.

This am he slept n our bed from 6-7am after waking up at 4am adn Pual spending an hour tryin gto persuade him back to sleep in his cot. This meant he didnt want to go down at 9.30.

shall we just keep going for a while longer adn see what happens?

thanks

[tashgordon]

just to make that a bit clearer, he woke 4.20, he was settling in cot on asnd off for about an hour then fed and then slept till 7.

i am wondering if he is hungry at 4 or 5 as he is eating even more then norm esp at breakfast.
thanks again

[Kellyjs]

Could well be a growth spurt. How's his solids intake? Of course I won't tell you off hun, I would do anything at that time in the morning.. It's just my DD is completely and utterly not able to be apop'd!

I might be tempted to push that second nap to 2pm as I'm still thinking that's an UT nap. Or else we could look at capping that first nap to 30mins now and keeping a nap at 1.45pm. Wdyt? The latter might be better in terms of the EW xx

[tashgordon]

At times he has seemed tired when woken early from morning nap, but guess that is usual.

He is eating lots, well he always eats lots but possibly more then normal especially in the morning (more porridge then me, plus fruit adn often bread too...)

I will stick with current timings for another 2 nights adn see what happens. He does seem tobe sleeping a bit longer after the early wu.
If he goes back adn then wakes at 7am again should we move nap forward?

thanks

[Kellyjs]

Yes, if he does wu around 7, I'd be thinking try a one nap day. What do you think? Perhaps around 11.45/12. Do you think he'll make it to then? Xx

[tashgordon]

He can def do 4hr AT adn has managed 4.5hr a couple of times.

At present harder then prev to get him down at night adn nap time. Maybe due to teething he has 1st molar coming through (screamed almost every hour last night, normally sleeps thru till 4.30 etc..) but I also wonder if the AT are wrong. There is a variable AT until 1st nap, today he woke at 5.30 so was 4hrs. normally 3.5hrs before 2nd nap and 4hrs before BT.  If he can manage longer that might be the issue. So confusing when more then one thing going on.... He doesn't seem to settle easily unless we are there. Guess there is also the issue that I went back to work 3 weeks ago.

I guess that is life always several things happen at the same time.

Will keep you posted.