help with 8 month old who won't settle but doesnt like to be picked up

[tashgordon]

HIya

After a very early start 3.45 - i fed adn settled him adn then settled him again adn he woke up after i left for work at 7.15....
APparrently he had almost 2 hrs sleep this afternoon.
Should I still aim for EBT?
Thanks

[Kellyjs]

Great news!

What time was the nap so we can remember for future planning? I would aim for a 7pm BT but obviously if you feel he's super tired, you could go 15/20mims earlier. Wdyt?

[tashgordon]

Hi

I think it was about 11.30 to 1bout 1.30 with a couple of stirring but was easy to get back to sleep.

He only fell asleep at 7.10, his dad thought when he tried to settle him at about 6.45 that he wasn't tired yet, but we didnt know nap time at that point and I now think that is unlikely.

He woke at 8.45 adn 9.45 for a bit of crying adn then slept until 5.35 had a feed adn after a fair bit of squirming went back to sleep prob from 6.30 to 7.15 so we will try for anothr 1 nap day......

He seemed pretty awake at 5.35 but I kept at it as he won't manage 1 nap otherwise will he?

Thaks

[Kellyjs]

Ok, so he may have been a tad OT by BT, but that's fine and to be expected.

Yep, I'd continue to try and get him back to sleep if you can. It's great that he will for you. If he doesn't I would try and apop a car nap or something around 9am for 15mins then try for a 12.15pm nap time.

I'd try nap time at the same time today and see how it goes x

[tashgordon]

Hi
SO yesterday he slept from 12 to 2 with just a brief wu.
Not sure how BT was as was still at work.
Last night he did a strange small vomit at about 12.30 so was awke for a bit, woke at 5.35 am and pooed so had a nappy change adn then feed adn a snuggle until he fell back to sleep adn slept until 7.45 when we all woke up adn had to scurry around as we were all a bit late!!

I have just put him down at 12.15 as he woke up later and didnt seem too tired despite the wierd vomit and poo, neither of which have happened again adn doesn't seem ill - very odd.

Am hoping we will make another 2hrs today despite th elate start to day.

On Friday I am travelling by train with both kids and am not sure it is realistic that I will get him to have a long nap in the pram then. should i swap back to 2 naps for that day or try and  if goes wrong do CT or EBT?

Feels like we are getting somewhere.

[Kellyjs]

That does seem strange doesn't it? Let's hope he's not coming down with something.

Great news though about the nap. Amazing, and lovely lie in although it must have been a shock!

I'd just play Friday be ear. Some LO's can nap whilst out and about, mine doesn't unfortunately. Ended up having our first NND the other week because of this  . See how long he naps for and perhaps shoot for an EBT if the nap is short. With my DD I used to take her to see friends that live 45mins away by car (still do), she used to nap on the way there and actually I used to be able to keep her awake on the way back with a couple of snacks and do EBT at around 6pm when we got back. The next day she's always a little extra tired so if she doesn't lie in, I might put her down for a nap 15mims earlier so she can catch up that way. As it'll be Saturday the day after you might be able to get away with a lie in again? X

[tashgordon]

Hi

SO things are generally going well.

I have had a few disasters but they have been learning points.  If I want to be sure he gets 2 hrs and I am out and about i have to revert to 2 naps but 3 naps this week he has slept straight through for 2hrs(12-2pm) and for the last 3 nights he has stopped waking at night so I suspect it was the teeth more then OT as he has had 3 molars through during that period. The 4th is bulging so I guess the NW will be back soon.

Yesterday when with childminder he woke after 1hr15min and she couldn't get back to sleep adn he then had a rest but no sleep during school pick up and just about managed until BT.  The other thing that seems consistent is that earlier BT means earlier WU by same amount.  2naps generally means about 4.30am wu adn 1 nap means 5am or occasioanly 5.30am wu.  I do then feed him and he goes back to sleep if snuggled in but can take some time!!!

So  feels like things are moving on.. At some point I guess I need to stop APOP with the early wu but that would mean waking up big brother so not planning that at present. Still having to be with him to settle generally with hand on his back but I will come back to GW when everything a bit more settled.

Thanks for all your advice

[Kellyjs]

That's a great update hun, thanks for sharing. It's all a learning curve isn't it? Well done you though, you managed to stay consistent x

[tashgordon]

HI

Not sure if it is ok to continue here as it is part of the same or if I need to start a new thread.

For the last couple fo months I have been APOP in the morning after EW by taking into bed and feeding adn initally he went back to sleep after feeeding adn then eventually only if i cuddled him adn held his arms down adn then even that got quite tricky so I decided to stop taking into bed.

This has been good in terms of reducing NW but what I have found is that if he wakes between 4 and 5 we can get him back to sleep (initally after 60 but now 30min) but he only sleeps for another 40min max adn if he wakes after 5am he won't go back to sleep (we have tried for 1hr plus and at this time of the mornign it wakes his older brother).

So we have gone from:

Wake up between 4 and 5am
Feed in bed so gets another 45 or 1.5hr sleep adn was waking again about 6.30 or sometimes bit later
Nap 12-2
BT and asleep by 7pm

to now

wake up 5 or 5.30am
nap 12-2
Bt 7pm

It has been easy to get him down for nap but not so easy at BT adn I think he is getting OT as less sleep overall adn long 1st AT.

This am I gave him a 15min catnap at 9am and yesterday I put down early for a nap so slept 11.30-2pm

Any ideas about EW???
AM starting to think he is a lark adn I haev to accept it adn if so what should we do re naps he is in a really good 1nap schedule so dont want to revert to 2 if possible.

thanks

[Kellyjs]

I would have done the exact same thing Tash. See if he's OT by trying the extra nap as a one off. How did the night go? That extra long nap and what happened last night might be a good indicator if he was OT or whether he's actually UT.

It is a long day, so some OT might be expected, but as he is going back to sleep it might not count. Is he waking up happy in the morning? I think it's a very good idea to stop taking him into your bed too as he might be waking up for it, well done you. Any sign of teeth coming through?

One option is try some w2s about 3am and see if that disrupts his sleep cycle enough to reset? It's a bit of a pain to set an alarm for that time considering you're dealing with EW's, but it has been proven to help with some LO's. Wdyt?

How do you treat the EW's now? Is the room dark enough? I would always treat anything before your ideal wu as a NW so keep everything very low-key and don't engage him, then make a really big deal about the actual wu time and go in with a very cheery 'good morning!' .

I'll be back in a mo with the link about w2s if you wanted to have a read through and let me know what you think?

How to address habitual wakings (w2s and other methods)

[tashgordon]

Hi Kelly,

After the long nap 11.30 to 2pm he woke the next day at 4am adn settled again by 4.30 or 4.45am adn woke at 5.30am

That was the day I did the 10 or 15min early nap at 9am the next morning he woke at 4.45am

He also woke at 4.45am today and on both those 4.45am wake ups he took 45-60min to settle again adn then slept 40mins approx till about 6.40

Whn he wakes before 5am he is generally crying adn upset adn this is when I think I will get him back to sleep . On the morning he slept through to 5am adn 5.30am he woke up bright eyed adn chirpy and wasn't at all up for lying down or trying to sleep - I tried on both these days until 6am!!!

I am treating the EW like NW as in we go in adn either ssh or put a hand on his back if he is crying, if he settles we just stay   int he room to see if he is going to sleep or going to start crying or standing up. If he stands up we either pat the martress or put him down.

The room isn't dark enough, we have floor to ceiling windows which are amazing in the daytime but hard to blackout. I am going to try to stick up black out material tonight behind the roman blinds.

If that makes no difference I will try W2S unappealing as teh 3am wake ups sound!!!

thanks

[tashgordon]

Do you think he could be UT at BT even with 5hr AT?
Id owonder as he is standing up in cot shouting in a rather frustrated fashion???

room darker so lets see.....

[Kellyjs]

Hey sorry for the late reply. I'm with family this week so it's hard to get time to log on.

I'll be interested to know how the black out blinds help and also the w2s. I don't think he'll be UT at BT with a 5hr A, have you tried an EBT to see if that'll help? If that doesn't work we may have to consider he may be LSN. How many hours was he sleeping in 24 before the 2-1? Xx

[tashgordon]

Hi

I really appreciate that you do reply so no worries if you are busy and it takes a while.

Last night managed to black out one window well adn the other kind of.

He slept until 5.08 so a little better.

Have managed to get some more blackout material today so will see if that helps.

I am sure he is OT at BT. I am a bit hesitant about EBT as my previous experience is ealier waking but it is worth trying again but a little tricky with too high energy little boys neither of whom want their day to end!

Prior to the 2-1  he was getting about 2.5hrs nap but that gradually decreased to more like 2hrs adn at night he has been EW since before December so 10.5 - 11hrs most nights so prior to transition he slept 12.5-13.5hrs in 24hrs and now he is sleeping about 12.5hrs, he was getting a bit more when I was taking him into my bed as went back to sleep for longer so maybe 13hr then.

Unfortuantely I suspect he is both light sensitve and LSN but I think he needs to sleep until at lease 5.30 or 6am to get through the day so lets hope darkness or W2s help.

thanks

[Kellyjs]

How's it going now hun? I'm back from being away.

Do you try the EBT in the end? I know exactly what you mean, I was also hesitant to do it, but it really has saved my sanity on more than one occasion. If he really is LSN we'll get a good indicator of his ONS with an EBT to double check OT isn't at play then we can make a new plan xx