Author Topic: 15 months old EW (Read 4313 times)

ewabear · « **on:** December 10, 2014, 23:47:31 pm »

My LO has been waking up at 5 am for ages, 4 when teething. I have tried absolutely everything to move the whole routine, but with very little success. I try to keep her in bed until 5;30, but it is very difficult as she just cries and screams.
This is our routine:

5-5:30 WU
11 S (only for 1-1,10 h, if tired 2x half hour)
5:30 BT

She never sleeps past 5-5;10am so It is impossible for me to shift it.
Apart from this she sleeps in her own bed and loves eating so isn't hungry.

Martini~ · « **Reply #1 on:** December 11, 2014, 09:42:18 am »

Hi Hon,
Is your LO sleeping full 12h at night? Have you tried to shift her BT 15min every 2-3days until you manage to keep it around 6:30pm?
What was he WU before DTS?

ewabear · « **Reply #2 on:** December 11, 2014, 10:54:46 am »

Chyba mozemy po polsku hahaha.

Can I move her BT even though she keeps waking up at 5? I am worried that she will be OT as very sensitive to changes.
She sleeps 11,5, but then this short nap (she has never been a good napper).
We have recently (August) moved to Australia from UK, but WU was pretty much the same there, BT was 6 as she had 2 naps then.

Martini~ · « **Reply #3 on:** December 11, 2014, 12:14:51 pm »

Cześć

I think that you may try to push slightly like 15min every couple of days. If she sleeps 11,5h at night she doesn't seem OT by this rather shortish nap. I would say it is fine, some LOs just sleep like that but preserve nice 12h nights. Sometimes 1:15 nap are OT naps, but if she is fine after WU from nap and sleeps full 11-12h nights I would say it is enough for her.

You may try to encourage her to take a longer nap by putting her for a nap slighty later. Her morning A is 5,5-6h, counting from 5/5:30, when her afternoon A always less than 5,5h, but some LOs need longer A in the morning to have a decent nap. But have in mind that if she sleeps longer during day, she will also probably need a longer day and later BT as her 24h sleep needs will not change.

ewabear · « **Reply #4 on:** December 28, 2014, 13:00:27 pm »

3 weeks later and still no luck as LO is still teething, and she has been for past 2,5 monrhs. Is this possible? I am truly exhausted, her WU can be anything from 3:30 to 4:30 and no later then that. This was her day yesterday:

WU 4:30
S. 11
A. 12:30
Bt aimed for 5:30 but fallen asleep at 6:30

Today:
WU 4:15
S. 11
A. 11:20
Bt same as day before

Sometimes out of the blue she will wake up at 6 and then what should I do, do I shift everything 1h?
LO has never had problems with falling asleep and now it takes her 45-1h to fall asleep, sometimes I have to AP as no other way. We have gone through 2 bottles of baby nurofen and 2 tubes of teething gel. What else can I do? Im pregnant and feeling extremely tired, and it looks like those molars will take another couple of weeks at least. Her nap has increased slightly to 1:20-1:30 as she is making up early WU but still 10 hours at night?

Martini~ · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2014, 15:04:11 pm »

What do you do when LO wakes at 4;30? It MOTN so you cannot just start the day than.

ewabear · « **Reply #6 on:** December 28, 2014, 17:44:26 pm »

She will cry and scream and will not resettle. I normally pick her up and feed her in my bed for anything from30 min to 45 min, amd by this time it is light outside. After this she sits up is ready to start her day so I take her downstairs. I know picking her up is not the right thing to do, but I never really know if EW is caused by teething.

Martini~ · « **Reply #7 on:** December 28, 2014, 18:17:52 pm »

Do what time do you feed? Was she always fed at night at this time or have you moved your morning feed to 4:30/5:00?

ewabear · « **Reply #8 on:** December 28, 2014, 19:21:45 pm »

This is her morning feed. We have pretty much struggled with EW for past 7 months, she was waking up anytime from 5-6 and everytime I managed to get to 6 pm BT she statted waking up again at 5 am, but when she is teething she always wakes up very, very early (3:30-4:30). 5 o'clock now would be a dream come through. Feeding time gives me 30 min more snoozing time.

Martini~ · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2014, 08:56:33 am »

Hi Eva, sorry I haven't yet replied. It's just because it's Xmas here and million of things are going on.
Moreover I think we need to create some good plan of action here to go out this 4:00am NW (you cannot call it start of the day honey, it will make you a ghost soon if you will be getting up each day at that time).

I am thinking of big push here and riding through OT so to act as if you are changing countries and time zones (we have to switch the WU from 4 till 7am). You wrote you are afraid of OT but is your dd very prone to OT?

ewabear · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2014, 11:45:48 am »

I am not sure really. Don't you think I should wait it out until she is done with teething though?
How would I even try to approach it? Last night she woke up at 2:20, then 3:30 and after I fed her she managed to go back to sleep and slept until 6. She screams and puts her hands in her mouth like she is in pain. I only AP when she is teething of course.

Martini~ · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2014, 13:25:57 pm »

Honey - my opinion is that they are teething until 3yo, so I wouldnt wait but that's me:). It depends on you and how you feel what would you do and I would like you to decide. If you feel that it won't be ok to OT her to switch the routine as you feel she is in pain, that's fine. Can you clearly see when she is teething? I cannot with my DS - I never know if his NWs are because of teeth or something else:). And sometimes APOP and some habits which you developed during teething phase are having later effects.

My point would that you created this post as your dd is waking early. If you believe it is because of teeth, there is nothing we can do to help - it will pass soon. If you however think this is already a habit, let's create a strategy together how to approach it. Think it over and decide. Every decision is good - it's just have to be the one you believe in.

As a summary, even if this is teething or what kind of WU it is - at this age I wouldn't feed her at all until morning feed. It means that if she had BT feed at 6/7pm morning feed should 6 or even 6:30. Treat anything before as night waking and even if she is not asleep, she should be in her dark room knowing it's night time. It not only sends her the info that it's time to sleep but also even if she is not sleeping, she is resting in her crib. Would that make sense?

ewabear · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2014, 16:53:45 pm »

Ok, what is the strategy then? I am preparred to do it as it started affecting everyone in the haushold and I seem to get very tired lately. She can deal with being OT, it is something we cannot avoid during ST and we have done it before.

KookyK · « **Reply #13 on:** December 31, 2014, 19:39:23 pm »

I hVe had similar problems too - same age, teething (and illness), always been an early riser but even earlier now.

One thing I don't do is feed anywhere than downstairs with light on in the morning. And when we go down I announce 'morning!' Loudly! Morning is now from 5.30 as 6 wasn't happening often enough. Before then I try to ignore him as long as poss unless upset. If v early eg pre 5 I do walk in walk out or cuddle and put him back and sit there calming him with my voice til he drops off. From 5 if he's upset I hold him in the dark in his room no feeds, maybe singing until morning. Then we do the big morning announcement.

He's improved this week mainly cos he's a lot better from ill.

Oh also I think he woke early from cold altho our house isn't terribly cold. He wears long sleeve vest and a babygro, 3,5 tog sleeping bag. When I go up I add 1-2 cellular blankets. EWs have reduced since doing this.

ewabear · « **Reply #14 on:** January 01, 2015, 10:26:41 am »

LO is hardly able to just stay in bed, she cries and screams pretty much as soon as she wakes up. Is this what I should be doing? Just keeping her in her room no matter what until 5:30 even if she wakes up at 4?

Martini~ · « **Reply #15 on:** January 01, 2015, 10:34:44 am »

Ewa, maybe give yourself couple of days so we could have a plan and you will start. Would it be ok?

In general sleep training and habit changing is hard sweetie especially at this age. There will be a lot of crying involved, it's inevitable but that's why it's so important that if you start you are commited. If you let her cry for 45min let say (of course being with her in the room) and then you just give up and give her what she wants, it means that she gets the message "if I cry long enough, I will get what I want".

As it's New Year today, let's come with a plan in coming days how to tackle it and we start.

ewabear · « **Reply #16 on:** January 01, 2015, 11:26:29 am »

Ok let's do that. We have done ST few times so far as it tends to go wonky every 3 months so crying does not put me of it. Usually it takes her 3 nights and she is fine after that. Plan is needed though. Happy New Year

ewabear · « **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2015, 09:32:25 am »

We still haven't got a plan and LO is struggling with BT now. She slept ok last 2 nights, woke up at 5, but managed to stay in bed until 5:30. Naps as usual at 11-12, and BT at 5:30, but... She does not want to sleep and screams, tonight until 18:30. I am worried that this might cause EW as will be OT.

Martini~ · « **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2015, 17:07:28 pm »

Ok Honey, let's start to create a plan.

Can you tell me what is your bigger problem right now? We will start from that. So is it waking at 4:00am or around after 10,5h of sleep or rather wrongly set day of 5-5? Or maybe she is fighting BT? When she went to sleep at 6:30 what was her night? Did she woke at 5:00, did she had any NW?

Can you also tell me if she is a independent sleeper and if she cannot resettle at night, what do you do? Is she able of resettling by her own at all? Do you use a soother?

ewabear · « **Reply #19 on:** January 04, 2015, 19:15:54 pm »

She is an independent sleeper, does not use dummy and can resettle on her own. Two nights ago went to bed and woke up at 5 am. Because it took her 1 h to fall asleep, this resulted in 3 NW (she was able to resettle, once after I gave her teething gel) and 4:30 WU. I give her baby nurofen around 12 am. I think the biggest problem is eatly WU. I put delay in BT down to developmental changes and her being excited and wanting yo play and this I can try to address myself.

Martini~ · « **Reply #20 on:** January 04, 2015, 19:31:02 pm »

Is this 5am waking after 11-12h of sleep or rather 10am?

ewabear · « **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2015, 23:04:02 pm »

5 o,clock WU after 5:30 BT. 1H nap 11-12. She usually sleeps well if she manages to fall asleep at 5:30 and sleeps for 11-12 h. As soon as BT is delayed she NW and EWU. I think the cause of late BT is that she gets overstimulated easily and if we go somewhere in the afternoon and come back at 4:30 she will struggle with BT. Unfortunately it is very hot here at the moment (30-40 degrees) so we can only go out around 3pm which gives us very limited time to do things, she hates being at home all day and gets bored and trashes the house.

Martini~ · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2015, 06:52:28 am »

Ok Ewa, so I would say she is having nice routine as long night sleep indicates that and nap which is short but seems to be ok for her.

I would consider two solutions:
- push her nap to be later than now; it's 5,5h now so I think you may try to push her to 11:30 or so; if she manages to do a longer nap, try for later BT but do not push too much; let's say if she does a 1,5h from 11:30 till 1pm I would put her down at 6:30 not later (hoping for slighly shorter night as she had a longer nap but maybe we will achieve 6am wakeup here); if it works, wake couple of days and push than nap to 12:00 etc
- do it as with DLS so pushing BT/WU 15min every couple of days. Here is link:
How to Adjust to Daylight Savings

I would decide to make a non-negotiable time for start of the day, so let's say her routine tody i 5:30-5am and 5am is not negotiable. If you put her down 15min later in the evening, move it to 5:15 and treat everything before as NW even if she is not asleep.

Please let me think what you think & if you would like to make some changes in the plan, and let's get started!:)

ewabear · « **Reply #23 on:** January 05, 2015, 07:10:27 am »

Thanks, I will try to push her nap a bit, she gets very tired though and is pretty much ready to sleep after 5 h A so will have to work on distracting her. As per nap I kind of know that she will sleep for 1 h probably only, but still I will push that BT to later time. Let's not change it for now and see what happens.

Martini~ · « **Reply #24 on:** January 05, 2015, 09:24:51 am »

Some kiddos work much better on longer A in the morning. Let's say 6h+1,5,2h nap+5h till BT and they need that long morning A to have a good nap. Mine is going through OT better in the morning, than compensate tiredness with longer nap and prefer shorter A till BT.

Truly Blessed · « **Reply #25 on:** January 05, 2015, 09:33:51 am »

Hi Eva,

Oh my goodness I have been here Hun, with 4 am to 5 am WU's and guess what DS was teething molars at the time. I was also going with EBT which is responded too and he was getting 11 to 11.5 hours night sleep, so in the end he was just waking when well enough rested, which I think is what has happened here too. If she is waking at 4 and is no longer tired then nothing will get her back to sleep.

I am torn between saying wait this out because of the teething or not. For us things didn't improve until the teeth cut, but in your case I think it might be worth giving it a go and see what happens. So I'm wondering about wake to sleep

have you tried it yet

I'll be darned if I can find the link

I'll keep looking, then post it, sorry

It would need to be used in conjunction with a late night, could be worth a try $:-\$

Here's some EW info:

Early Morning Wakings

Lots of (HUGS)

ETA: Here it is

How to address habitual wakings (w2s and other methods)

Vicki.x.

ewabear · « **Reply #26 on:** January 05, 2015, 10:32:03 am »

Hi Vicki, My phone just died on me after I wrote a long reply. Wouldn't this annoy you

Her first molar cut through monrhs ago and the other three are still not fully showing and they are massive. Her WU times are unpredicable so with BT at 5:30 I can only just manage to prevent OT. Her BT is tricky as well as she is vety excitable and needs long wind down routine, we need to be home 4 at the latest otherwise she can struggle with BT which then affects the whole night. I'll go with Martii's suggestion and we will see, but if you have any other advise it will be very very welcome.
I almost forgot, with W2S the difficulty is that she sleeps very lightly in the morning (hence white noise machine as birds outside can be a problem) so It happened on few occasions that she just fully woke up, obviously very angry so gave up on that.
Ewa xxx

Truly Blessed · « **Reply #27 on:** January 05, 2015, 10:57:29 am »

Oh yes, that has happened to me many times with computer crashing!!!!

You are in wonderful hands Hun and have been given great advise, Marti just asked for some extra eyes in case there is anything else to add $:-\$ .

That is very annoying that you can't try W2S, darn those chirpy birds!

It is definitely worth trying a long am A time to see it it over rides the pm, it does work well for lots of LO's.

I wish you lots of luck, and remember "This too shall pass!" repeat repeat repeat

sigh.x.

ewabear · « **Reply #28 on:** January 06, 2015, 10:45:30 am »

LO woke up at 6 this morning and napped from 12-13:10. BT was supposed to be at 6:30 but she did not want to sleep and spent 1 h screaming, I had migrene attack and had to AP (BF) her. What is wrong with this BT now?

Martini~ · « **Reply #29 on:** January 06, 2015, 10:55:25 am »

Maybe she is UT/OT? Has she ever refused BT when UT or OT? Mine usually will wake earlier in the morning rather than refuse BT. From 13:10 till 18:30 it is 5:20, in the morning she had 6h of A so quite much for a 15mo, but if she is LSN I guess it's possible. When she went to 1 nap honey?

Truly Blessed · « **Reply #30 on:** January 06, 2015, 11:00:47 am »

Morning, hard to say if it's UT/OT

Have you been able to figure out if she high/average or low sleep needs from her history Hun

As Marti says I think this is very relevant.

(HUGS) on the migraine

Have you got ear plugs for when she is crying

Tracy recommended this, it may sound harsh, but you can still hear your LO, it just means that the frequency is easier to bear, I used them throughout Sam's ST.x.

ewabear · « **Reply #31 on:** January 06, 2015, 13:30:02 pm »

Hi, I think she is very LSN, I remember she was 2 weeks old and wasn't sleeping for 7 hours during the day. She started having one nap at 13 months. When she was on two naps she was only napping for 2x 1 hour at 12 months. When our day started getting too long we started capping naps but this never really worked as I couldn't work out if she likes fitst one longer or second one. So we switched to one. She would probably fall asleep while feeding if she was OT and wake up early. I think she needs quite long wind down before BT. It is very hot here at the moment and we only go out after 3 pm and this gives us very little time to play outside. We go out early in the morning too. We try to work around her naps always, daily trips are impossible as she hates long car trips and will not sleep in the car, or will but not for very long, so it seems like our life is concentrating on LO's sleeping. I know it will pass but I am pregnant and feel exhausted now. I'm sorry I have gone on a bit but I am so sleep deprived that I am running on fumes and after entertaining LO for whole day the last thing I need is her not wanting to sleep.

Truly Blessed · « **Reply #32 on:** January 06, 2015, 13:58:46 pm »

Quote from: ewapeters on January 06, 2015, 13:30:02 pm

I'm sorry I have gone on a bit but I am so sleep deprived that I am running on fumes and after entertaining LO for whole day the last thing I need is her not wanting to sleep.

Oh Hun, not at all, that's what we're here for, I can only imagine how tired you are

What does your Mother's Instinct tell you about last night

My guess would be UT from what you've just explained, what do you think.

Are you going to stick with long morning A time for a while to see if that works

You do know that if she is LSN your new baby is scheduled to be HSN

that's what I've been told, so finger's crossed eh!?

x.

ewabear · « **Reply #33 on:** January 10, 2015, 12:56:32 pm »

Hi, We have been doing longer A times and 18:30 BT for almost a week. LO WU time still ranges from 4:45 yesterday to 5:30 today. She goes for a nap between 11:30-12 depending on WU time and sleeps for
1h-1h 10. We have struggled with BT too gor few days as it was taking her 1 h to fall asleep, but it is netter now and she tends to fall asleep around 18:45.
She sleeps from 10-10:45 h during the night, naps haven't changed and the whole routine move made her sleep 1 h less then before, EW still the same.

Truly Blessed · « **Reply #34 on:** January 10, 2015, 19:09:08 pm »

Hey Hun,

So she is clocking up around 12 hours, It really does seem that this is all she needs. I have another thread running with a lady in a very similar place, her LO early wakes and is LSN too. Slightly different circumstances, as her LO's day was too long, but you could have a read and see what Kate had to say to this lady. You could be EW kindred spirits

.

Re: Is there any hope?

I hope that WU can stabilise at 5.30 Hun, that extra 30/45 minutes is such a big deal when you need it so badly.

((HUGS))

x.

ewabear · « **Reply #35 on:** January 10, 2015, 19:24:19 pm »

Can I try extending further? To be honest my evenings are shorter now, but I'm craving more morning bed time:)

Truly Blessed · « **Reply #36 on:** January 10, 2015, 20:25:23 pm »

Quote from: ewapeters on January 10, 2015, 19:24:19 pm

Can I try extending further?

Sorry, in what way Hun

x.

KookyK · « **Reply #37 on:** January 10, 2015, 21:26:49 pm »

I tried something new last night and my habitual EW got to 6.30!!!! It was a plug in night light as I thought his room seemed q dark and wondered if become disorientated in the early hours. It's only been 1 night so I'll report back...

Fri was 4.15 :-( the worst so far. During xmas hols we managed two 6am starts but everything else was pre 6am.

Our schedule is v similar to yours except sometimes I get longer naps (but on my 2 work days tend to be short ones). I try not to put down for nap before 11.15 regardless. Hoping just to wait it out. My SIL's 3 kids have all been the same and grew of it

ewabear · « **Reply #38 on:** January 10, 2015, 22:54:31 pm »

Plug in the night light? I am sorry what has actually happened? LO has black out blinds as har room is on the sunny side of house and it doesn't get dark until 9 pm. Sun rises at 6 so she is up way before it is light most of the time.

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #39 on:** January 11, 2015, 09:57:09 am »

Hi there, just a couple of thoughts - I think you've been getting fantastic advice from pps, have you been keeping her in bed when she EWs? I know that Marti discussed with you above that you should treat as a NW and sleep train for those EWs until your "agreed"WU time. What WU time are you aiming for?

For a LSN lo that nap is still quite early in the day, and as others have said her overall sleep is pretty good, it just seems to be at a less than convenient time. When you moved time zones, did you move her sleep gradually or just go with a drastic change overnight? If the latter, it might be worth trying something more drastic as she obviously copes with that.

Also, you do seem concerned that teething is playing a part. I would say that even if she is uncomfortable from teething, that isn't likely to be as constant as the daily EWs. Have you tried doing w2s perhaps rather than by stirring her properly, using the time to DF her some medicine (calpol or ibuprofen equivalents). This would enable you to rule out pain as a cause and also might help with the EWs. Then you can go for a much later nap and a much later Bt, moving the day by two hours as if you were travelling time zones, and stick with it. See how she gets on.

Potentially radical, but if the gently gently approach hasn't worked, might be worth thinking about?

ewabear · « **Reply #40 on:** January 11, 2015, 11:02:08 am »

Yes I have been keeping her in bed at least until 5:30 when I take blinds down and show her that it is getting light outside, she gets very excited as I allow her to look out the window. I have also noticed that when she wakes up she is sort of fine, obviously complaining and calling me, but it gets worse when I go in. I picked her up couple of times and gave her cuddle and explain that birds are still asleep so it is still sleep time.
BT have drastically improved and after 4 days of screaming she got the message. Today she woke up at 5:40 so let's see if it will start improving.
Moving across time zones was simple, we travelled to Thailand, then Bali and two weeks later to Melbourne so it sort of happened gradually. She lost a little bit of sleep but adjusted well and after 1 week she was ok. So you see she takes changes well and probably would be able to survive on 12 hours a day, extremely LSN. Yes I have been giving her ibuprofen at 12 am but I have noticed it only last her for 5 hours max. She also napped from 12-13 today. I am sorry for hectic message but on iphone.

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #41 on:** January 11, 2015, 16:17:57 pm »

What about not giving the ibuprofen until 2am ish and seeing if that extends until a later WU.

Also, she probably is actually ready to start the day at 5/5.30 because she's been in bed for over 11 hours. It would seem to me if you want a later WU you do have to shift the day. If you say she did well with the time change befor why not just fix Bt at 7pm and nap two hours later than you're doing now and see how she gets on?

ewabear · « **Reply #42 on:** January 11, 2015, 19:30:54 pm »

She falls asleep pretty much around 18:45-19, and naps around 12-12-30 and I cannot imagine nap at 14:00, I think 6,5 hours is just about max she can do.
She woke up again at 5:40 so things are moving slightly. I think I will be fine once we get to 6 am wake up, I would like to avoid 8 pm BT as it is very late so maybe push to 19:30 at some point. Ibuprofen at 2am makes sense, I thought of that, Im just worried that I will not be able to go back to sleep, but definitely will give it a go. Thanks for your help.

MasynSpencerElliotte · « **Reply #43 on:** January 12, 2015, 13:14:15 pm »

Hi there, just popping in as I have an extreme lsn baby too! I can totally get keeping bedtime on the early side for now, we don't because we have much older kids and DD3 is kind of set at 8 pm for bedtime and has been since she went to one nap. We get 6:30/7:00 wake ups (mostly the early time, rarely 7:00 - in fact I thought she was sleeping in today but I just heard a soother go flying!). If you are good with the slow and steady shift then I would keep at what you are doing (I am one who does things in one go, so far has never backfired on me yet!). One thing though, when she ew do you always take her out of her bed and snuggle? I know with my DD that would totally reinforce an ew, for the most part now I just lay on the floor below the crib and offer reassurance with my voice during nw & ew.

ewabear · « **Reply #44 on:** January 24, 2015, 14:24:08 pm »

Hi, a success at last. LO now goes to bed around 7-7:15 and wakes up around 6-6:15. We are happy with that. I was at some point giving her cuddle just to keep her in the room, then I was taking blinds down showing her light outside. At some point I stopped picking her up as she started sleeping longer, bur stll keep her in bed if crying , but usually for around 10 min and then I undo the blinds. I think she got the message. Unfortunately teeting is still a nightmare so baby nurofen helps.
To summarise: thanks everyone

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Author Topic: 15 months old EW (Read 4313 times)