Author Topic: 16 weeks and short naps (Read 3774 times)

Eva's Mummy · « **on:** December 12, 2014, 21:22:08 pm »

DD2 is now 16 weeks and we have started to short nap. Her A time is 1hr 25mins then she naps for 40-45 sometimes 50mins and wakes up happy but starts to get grumpier as the day goes on. I have tried a slightly longer A time (only a couple of time) and she naps for 36mins

But she cries and cries while I am trying to extent her A time as she just wants to sleep after 1hr 20.

I feel like I am feeding her too often as well now as I am worried that she will wake early from her next nap as her feed would be due in 30mins or so after her nap so she seems to be getting a bottle every 2.5hrs now. I know every baby is different but I think we were on 2 long naps and a CN with DD1 now we are having 4 naps a day.

example today.

WU 7:58
A 1hr 25mins
S 9:23 - 10:03 (40mins)
A 1hr 32mins
S 11:35 - 12:18 (43mins)
A 1hr 30mins
S 13:48 - 13:58 (10mins in car)
S 14:05 - 14:40 (35mins)

Ima shel Alon · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2014, 06:35:43 am »

Hi Gail,

It sounds like she is UT. I know it's tricky because on one hand she does UT naps with 1:25h A time but 10min more give you an OT nap. I remember that for a long time I had to hold DS for the last 30min of his A time because he was so cranky but if I put him earlier than that for his nap, when I thought he was ready, I always go an UT nap.
It's just that they still need help to cope with a bit longer A time, but it doesn't mean they are not ready for it.
I also think that after trying the increased A time for just a couple of times it's very normal to still get OT naps, that's why when you increase A time you can also see the result of it after 4 days and it's important to stick to it for this length of time.
If you think she won't be able to cope with 10 more min, then you can try just 5min for 4 days and if naps are still UT then you can increase again by 5min.

Eva's Mummy · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2014, 12:41:33 pm »

Thank honey. So what A times do you think I should be aiming for and should I just push the first A time until I get a good nap or push them altogether?

I never know what to do after a 40min nap, when to put down again.

This is how it has been going:

WU 8:26
A 1hr 2 mins
S 9:55 - 10:39 44mins
A 1hr 21mins
S 12:01 - 12:40 39mins
A 1hr 34mins
S 14:14 - 15:09 55mins
A 1hr 31mins
S 16:40 - 17:20 40mins
A 1hr 25mins
BT 18:45 up and down until 19:18

WU 7:53
A 1hr 32mins
S 9:25 - 10:06 41mins
A 1hr 27mins
S 11:33 - 12:12 39mins

then crying at 13:05 and fell asleep taking her bottle at 13:10 which she never does.

Rook76 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2014, 22:30:49 pm »

Have you read the post about transitioning to 4 hour EASY cycle? (Sorry - don't know how to link to it). I had similar problem, which I has just seemed to resolve itself after a couple of weeks of slightly longer cycle but I read short naps was a cue to transition to longer cycle and feed less often. I've been trying to stretch the A times out, those later in the day seem more successful with my LO than first thing in the morning.

We've still had a couple of short naps. When I've decided shush pat is fruitless I've got him up, had a quiet 20 minutes (cuddle and a book) an at the first tired sign put him back down and he's done another 45 minutes. I've also figured out that despite what I thought the feeds were nowhere near big enough, so I increased the feed size whilst stretching the cycle to nearer 4 hours.

Hopefully at least one tip there that might help you out! Good luck x

Ima shel Alon · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2014, 10:40:03 am »

Quote from: Eva's Mummy on December 13, 2014, 12:41:33 pm

So what A times do you think I should be aiming for and should I just push the first A time until I get a good nap or push them altogether?

You can look here at the average: Average A times- BOOKMARK ME! but every baby is an individual so she might need a bit less than that or more. IIWY I would start pushing and see how it goes, it's really hard to think now till what point to push.
Whether to push just the first nap or the whole day is your choice as you know your baby best. I always did all A times at once because I knew DS can handle it and actually responded not too well when we did just the morning.
I looked at every A time individually as he needed a shorter A time in the morning then the rest of the day. If you write down every increase you do and what naps are you getting you might see that you get a good nap in the morning after a X A time, but that you'd need to look at the second A time separate than the first one.

There is no one answer what to do after a short nap, you'll just need to trial and error. For most babies it works when the next A time after a short nap is shortened by 10 to 20min (depends on the baby) but some babies, like mine was, need a full A time after a short nap. I only found it out because I gave a shorter A time after a short nap and always got an UT nap.

Eva's Mummy · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2014, 12:12:14 pm »

Well she was crying her eyes off this morning so I put her down early (I know I shouldn't but at the time it feels like you are helping her as she is tired).Needless to say she slept 41mins

So I went for 1hr 36mins for her 2nd A time. I heard her cry at 36mins but resettled herself, then again and 1hr. It has now been 1hr 27mins and she is still sleeping

Unfortunately we need to be out at 2:30 today just as she will probably need her next nap but at least she will have had 1 good nap and hopefully we will try that better tomorrow.

Ima shel Alon · « **Reply #6 on:** December 16, 2014, 22:00:59 pm »

How did today go? Did you manage a longer A time?

Eva's Mummy · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2014, 13:51:15 pm »

Not fantastic. I was getting a first nap of 1hr 15mins on an A time of 1hr 36mins so today I went for 1hr 40mins and got a 36mins nap. All the rest of the days seems stuck on 36min naps and she is getting grouchier as the day goes on.

Ima shel Alon · « **Reply #8 on:** December 19, 2014, 14:04:40 pm »

So maybe tweak just the first A time and give less A time the rest of the day to allow her to catch up with sleep?

katie80 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 19, 2014, 22:10:02 pm »

Hi Gail, just hopping on to offer support. I know it's frustrating, but I think you're on the right track. In your first post, she did a 36min nap after upping the A time, so you may just need to hold at 1h40 for a few days and see if she'll even out. Hang in there, hon. I've had 3 short nappers at that age and it can be tough, but it does get better!

Eva's Mummy · « **Reply #10 on:** January 12, 2015, 12:02:37 pm »

Sorry its taken so long to get back. Both LO's have been ill all over xmas so its been manic.

Naps are getting a bit better we are getting a good 1hr 35-45 for the first nap with a 1hr 45mins A time (I actually think she lies awake in her cot in the morning as I have had to go get her a few times and she's been wide awake just looking around). The second nap is usually 45/50 mins on a 1hr 45mins A but she gets cranky and I need to hold her for the last wee bit and then she does a 36min naps on the same A time before bed.

BT however is horrible just now. I put her down and she is fine for anywhere between 15-36mins then she is up and down like a yoyo for the next 2 hours. When I go in she is wide awake, sometime I replug her dummy and she goes back down for 5-10 mins then she needs it replugging again, Sometime she is crying and she still has her dummy in her mouth

other times she looks wide awake but as soon as I lift her she melt into my arms but wakes up again when I lie her down.

DD1 is also struggling with BT at the moment so I'm basically darting from room to room for 2 hours.

Ima shel Alon · « **Reply #11 on:** January 12, 2015, 14:32:15 pm »

It sounds to me like she needs a certain A time in the morning which is shorter than the rest of the day. I would try and increase the second A time by even 5-10min and see if it helps.
You are in an UT/OT loop in the afternoon/evening. She doesn't nap well for her second nap and then you offer a full A time which results in an OT nap. That would explain why she wakes up so often in the first part of the night.

Eva's Mummy · « **Reply #12 on:** January 27, 2015, 15:07:07 pm »

I'm terrible at this. I have been getting a good 1hr 30ish in the morning with a 1hr 45/50mins A time. Then I have been pushing the 2nd A time out just to 1hr 50 but getting a 30min nap (that's 2 days in a row now), could 30mins be UT not OT. I think that is what is confusing me. Dropped her last A time to 1hr 40 its taking a little bit longer to get her asleep but once she asleep that is her all the ENW have stopped. It seems really low A times for her age. I don't know what is classes as HSN at this age?

Ima shel Alon · « **Reply #13 on:** January 27, 2015, 18:58:10 pm »

A 30min nap can be Ut for some babies. How is she waking up from the nap, grumpy and crying or happy and chatty?

Eva's Mummy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 27, 2015, 19:00:26 pm »

Always happy and chatty

katie80 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2015, 15:08:51 pm »

We definitely get 30min UT naps here (and 30min OT too

). I'd give the second A another push, esp after the shorter morning A and good nap. The A times are low, but she was early, right (I mean more than a week or two)? That could have something to do with it. And, she could be a bit HSN as well.

Eva's Mummy · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2015, 15:14:05 pm »

She was only 2 weeks early. But I def think HSN she sleeps 14.5hrs at night no matter when she goes to bed. (I am so not used to that, DD1 was always an early riser, still is) I've just pushed her 2nd A today to 2hrs so I will see how it goes.

Its so confusing, I guess I just have it stuck in my head that 30mins was always OT with DD1, but they are so different. She gets grumpy after 1hr 30 mins but I think she's at that age where she needs more stimulation. She wants to be sitting but cant and so on so maybe that's why she is grumpy instead of tiredness.

katie80 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2015, 15:53:15 pm »

Ok, yes 2 weeks probably doesn't make a difference, that's full term. I must've been thinking about someone else. $:-\$ . Def sounds like she is HSN. And, I agree probably getting grumpy from wanting to be up and moving a bit more... seems pretty common around 5/6mo.

Eva's Mummy · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2015, 15:59:14 pm »

Well we got 40mins

katie80 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2015, 19:59:15 pm »

Hmm, I'd hold for a few days and see if anything changes, and if not add a bit more A time. Anything else happen before that nap that might cause her to sleep differently... could she be OS, or on the flip side not enough activity?

*Liz* · « **Reply #20 on:** January 29, 2015, 03:55:30 am »

Hey there

.

If you have a 14.5 hr night I would imagine that is why she short naps all day. She is tacking an extra 2.5hrs onto her night, so that is most of her napping time used up

.

Sort of depends if you want to shorten it or not really.

Long nights will rob naps until they are much older and only having 1/0 naps a day when they may use extra night sleep to catch up iyswim??

katie80 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 29, 2015, 17:35:03 pm »

I agree with Liz, Gail. HSN or not, at some point that long night is going to rob her day sleep. Sorry I didn't say anything about it!

Eva's Mummy · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2015, 08:22:41 am »

No that's fine. She woke earlier yesterday olny 12.5 hours of sleep.I pushed all her a times yesterday by accident we were at the doctors in the morning so first a was 2hrs 15mins and we still got 1hr 30 nap. Next a was 2 hrs and got a 40 min nap. Then 1hr 50 got 32 min nap then bt was 1hr 50 mins after that. It took longer to get her down for her naps today but last night she woke crying aftet 30 mins then every 10mind after that for 2 hours. Then woke twice during the night and woke st 6.

*Liz* · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2015, 09:23:54 am »

Seems like she was OT at bedtime, but actually your best nap was after the longest A time $:-\$ . Was she strapped in a car seat or buggy for that one though??

Eva's Mummy · « **Reply #24 on:** January 30, 2015, 09:58:23 am »

No in her cot. She always does 1hr 30 for her first nap usually after an a time of 1hr 50 x

*Liz* · « **Reply #25 on:** January 30, 2015, 12:54:58 pm »

Hmmmm. What time was bedtime last night? How much night sleep was it?

Eva's Mummy · « **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2015, 13:51:49 pm »

Bt was 19:15 and WU 8:05 x

*Liz* · « **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2015, 21:51:56 pm »

So it's still almost 13 hrs isn't it? I must admit I'm finding it hard to work out what to expect with a night longer than 12 hrs.

If you look at the total sleep in 24hrs with your normal routine it end up round about right, so it's kind of hard to see how to change it around without expecting an extra 2hrs sleep iyswim?

I guess I would keep the first A as it is for her usual nap, and start trying to push the A from there really. It isn't always OT that makes it harder for them to settle, some babies can be very 'clock' orientated and need a big of a push to get them past an old nap time. My DD was like that - I remember her being tired at am nap time for about 2 weeks when I was dropping onto one nap. If she had her way she would have kept on 2 naps and lots of night time parties

. Once we pushed past it everything was so much better.

So I guess you need to decide whether her pattern that she has at the moment is acceptable or not. Of it isn't then I think you will need to cap the night to get past the cat napping in the afternoon. But that might initially make the nights more unsettled $:-\$ .

If it were me I think I would be tempted to get to the magic 6 months when you can be quite sure that most babies need 2 long naps and a 12 hr night, so can more towards a more 'known' routine.... $:-\$ . You also know the developmental short napping should be ending (unless they are genuine cat nappers).

Eva's Mummy · « **Reply #28 on:** February 03, 2015, 15:28:19 pm »

Yeah we are getting on average 17ish hours sleep in 24 hours. So if we wait until the magic 6 months and 2 naps what A times am I aiming for getting on to 2 naps. We are at 2 just now, I'm guessing I need to be way more than that?

Also the 1 I keep getting wrong is the A time after her 45mins nap. We have been doing:

A 2hrs
Nap 1hr 30
A 2hrs
Nap 45mins
A 2hrs
Nap 30mins (she wakes herself)
A 1hr 50
BT

But its taking ages to get her down for her CN and BT so I guess I am going at the wrong times?

katie80 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 04, 2015, 00:04:00 am »

Usually it takes an A of about 3hr to make it to two naps, I think. Unless she's happy to do 2-3-4 or something like that. My DS1 is HSN, but did a CN, long nap, CN routine from about 5.5-7.5mo. It looked something like this (the first times were where we started and the second where we ended)...
W 7am
A
S 9:30/45-10:15am
A
S 12:15/30-2:00pm
A
S 4:30/4:45-5:15pm
BT 7/7:30pm

IIWY, I'd start pushing the second A time until you get another longer nap... it could be 2h15/20/30min that you need to get there. Then, you won't have to worry about the A after and can do a CN and later BT, so you get a more appropriate length night. That is, unless you want the longer night and shorter naps!

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Author Topic: 16 weeks and short naps (Read 3774 times)