To feed or not to feed 27 month old...?

[Joy-filled]

My DS has generally been quite open to eating lots of different foods but lately he's started to refuse to eat some foods unless we feed him .  He'll say "My need help" and will not feed himself.  My DH and I are not sure what the best way to respond is.  For awhile we decided that since baby is due in January, we will not have time to feed him so he has to learn to consistently feed himself since he is more than capable and has been independently feeding himself since he was 12/13 months. So if he refused to feed himself, then he just wouldn't eat.  However, this has become quite frequent in the past few weeks and then he's hungry at night and does not understand that if he doesn't eat his supper, then he'll be hungry and has to wait until tomorrow.  I feel terrible when this happens and I have tried to explain it, but it hasn't seemed to make a difference. 

Part of me wonders if he wants help because he absolutely loves doing things "together" and just wants the relational interaction?  I make a very concerted effort to spend quality time with him during the day, though, and it doesn't seem to make a difference so I'm not sure about that theory.

I should also note that this is not an issue when he is at home daycare 3x/week.  He never asks for help to eat there and she serves him very similar/identical foods as we do.

Any thoughts?

[creations]

If it's just, or mainly, supper he's asking I'd try bringing the meal 15-30 mins earlier. He might be too tired to be bothered to feed himself.  My DS is almost 4yo and I can see when he is too tired to fill himself up properly (he feeds himself but it's like the bare minimum to get by on rather than properly eating) and if he is super super exhausted I've even offered to help and I've never spoon fed him, not even at 6 months old!  So, just saying, time can have a big effect. We have our evening meal at a very early 4.30 (BT is 7pm) so that he is not too tired to eat.

[Joy-filled]

Thanks for the feedback! Good theory, but it will be lunch or supper and sometimes snack too, so it isn't because he's too tired and he's also LSN.  It's just usually supper because he always has supper at home whereas lunch/snacks are sometimes at daycare where he has no problem feeding himself (and is actually more tired at daycare than at home too). He will also almost always feed himself if it's something he absolutely loves, like bread, beans, falafals, etc.  But if it isn't his favourite (but I still know he likes it as he's scarfed it down before and will eat it if I feed it to him), then we tend to have the "my need help".

My theory really is that he just likes the interaction as he's a highly relational kid and loves to do things together...but it just won't be possible when baby comes.  So, I'm not sure what to do.

[creations]

then he's hungry at night and does not understand that if he doesn't eat his supper, then he'll be hungry and has to wait until tomorrow.

Does he ask for food in the night then?  Or is it before BT?
I agree that he needs to wait until tomorrow to eat but just wondering if there is an opportunity to re-offer the same food just before he goes for his bath or BT routine etc.
I think really as you are offering a varied healthy diet or foods he likes then really the rest is up to him. He can probably get by eating less for a few days and then make up for it on a day when he *really* likes the food and will self feed.  So I think what you've been doing is the right approach, offer, explain why he is hungry if he asks for food in the night, and leave the rest to him. There's really no point in developing a power struggle over this.  Sounds like he likes some nice healthy foods too so it's not like he's holding out for chocolate

[Katet]

Part of me wonders if he wants help because he absolutely loves doing things "together" and just wants the relational interaction?  I make a very concerted effort to spend quality time with him during the day, though, and it doesn't seem to make a difference so I'm not sure about that theory.

I think you are right, I think as adults we put "value" on how we spend quality time, you might think playing a game or reading a story is "quality" which it is to an adult, but to a toddler, being fed might be his highest level of quality time... he doesn't differentiate between things the way an adult does, he just puts his own value on things

...but it just won't be possible when baby comes.  So, I'm not sure what to do.

Why won't it be possible when they baby comes? Really if that is a "quality time" to him then surely it would be more important to make time to help him have his meals than it would be to spend time with him in other ways. I actually have a funny memory of DS1 (22mo) sitting next to me & me feeding him & him feeding me while I was feeding the baby... yes he wasn't eating at the table in a formal manner, but he was (as was I) enjoying my company.

The real issue is the tendency to compartmentalise actions into ways that children don't necessarily see the same way. IMHO if he is asking you to feed him & he won't eat otherwise, respect that he sees that as "quality time" & honour that... I know what I "enjoy" doing with my children isn't always what fills their cup & that is important to learn.

[michaeljacknnugg]

Just as an alternative, if he likes the closeness maybe he would like to sit on your lap and feed himself?

[Joy-filled]

Thanks for the input .

Creations, he will ask for food throughout the day and before BT.  I have been re-offering the food every time he would say he's hungry but he still usually would insist he needs help and not eat unless he gets help.  Sometimes, if I could I would help him, but other times I legitimately couldn't because I have other things I have to do (pregnant working mom trying to keep the house in order).  We have also been re-offering before BT too.  I've been reading some threads here, though, and I think I need to stop re-offering so many times (other than just before BT as an extra) and just stick with regular meal/snack times instead of going back and forth multiple times a day and having him say he'll eat but then refuse to unless I feed him.

Katet, I hear your perspective that I should be able to have time to feed DS when baby #2 comes.  However, I'm anticipating my milk flow to be similar to last time - BFing took 45-60 min each feed and required great attention to help baby latch for months.  I don't see myself able to sit at the table, nurse, and feed my DS and myself all at the same time.  I truthfully don't mind feeding DS at all, it just does take a long time because he eats a lot so whether he's feeding himself or being fed, his meal times take 30-45 minutes each time (he has an incredible metabolism, always has, so eats a lot of food).

MJ&N, thanks for the alternative suggestion.  I'll have to re-ponder that one once my belly isn't taking up my whole lap ( ) and if I'm not nursing baby #2 at the table.

It seems I have 2 possible choices? 1) Stay consistent and let him know if he's hungry he'll have to feed himself. 2) Feed him (if he's asking) and I have time, but if I don't he'll have to feed himself or go without.  Or are there other choices?  We've tried both but aren't sure which one is the best way to go. Consensus on which one is best? 

[michaeljacknnugg]

I would do #2, since he's asking for it as a connection thing.

Another example - my nearly 7yo loves to be carried to bed; he can walk easily himself but needs the closeness sometimes. If I genuinely can't do it he will accept that, but it's because I have done it so many times that he can see when I can't do it.

Maybe if you need to do something else you can make a deal with him? Feed him the main course and let him feed himself dessert?

[goldmom]

When my LO's ask for me to feed them, I've put the food on a fork and then hand them the fork, so it's not all me feeding them, and they get used to the idea of them feeding themselves (they don't usually need my help eating, but occasionally they need that extra attention/help). I also usually watch them eat (sitting with the LO's), so I'm with them and interacting, and do whatever I can to help them without actually feeding them (I cut the food as needed before I give it to them). DS1 did go through a stage where he didn't want to eat dinner, have you considered that he's possibly not too hungry at his meals and you may need to cut back snacks or wait longer after a snack until dinner?

I've also tried to arrange dinner when I'm not nursing, or try to at least have it all prepared and ready for them, and then when they're busy eating, to starting to nurse. I've learnt to do a lot while holding a baby in one hand.

Also, DS1 and DD used to just eat and eat and eat, but at a certain age (not exactly sure when), they really did slow down and eat less at a time. This could also be happening to your LO, and he doesn't want/need to eat as much now.

[Katet]

However, I'm anticipating my milk flow to be similar to last time - BFing took 45-60 min each feed and required great attention to help baby latch for months.  I

It may surprise you DS1 was a very slow challenging feeder took an hour in the first 3 months, DS2 was the exact opposite 10mins was a long feed for him... the one thing I thing I learnt (from having really bad PPD & lots of support with my DD2 to help avoid it) it is really good is to cross bridges when they come & not spend lots of time worrying about the second child being like the first... chances are it can be quite different.


If you explain you can feed him when you have time rather than expect him to just do it, because the reality is that if he is asking for it, he is too young to be stubborn & doing it for any other reason than it does fill his "Mummy cup" &  it really sounds like it is HIS idea of quality time if he doesn't see eating as important if you aren't part of the process ... you may think it is a chore, but you aren't the toddler who sees it as connection KWIM & over the years I've realised that the most connected times with my boys happen in the least expected places & not necessarily in the ways I think they should like the most.

Its also is one of those funny things that independence tends to more come with trust rather than forcing it, children who trust their parents will help when they ask are more likely to become independent than a case where it is "I know they can so they should" & having a battle over it... you may well find that a  few weeks of feeding him he quickly goes back to doing it himself, that is my experience at least with many things in children.

There is a great saying that is something "children show their need for attention in the least attractive ways"