Author Topic: Slow or no letdown  (Read 4008 times)

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Offline newkidontheblock

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Slow or no letdown
« on: December 16, 2014, 14:29:08 pm »
Any of you guys who are breastfeeding ever had an issue with slow letdown in the evening? This is happening to me only at the bedtime feed (probably when I am most anxious?) Mostly, its DD as she doesn't even try to suck..just hangs around waiting..it is infuriating but most times I manage. But today she was actually doing her part...granted in fits and starts but still. After half an hour of this, her wailing and me getting more and more anxious, I tried to pump till letdown but I was way too wound up for that and since I am alone with her, I couldn't calm her and pump at the same time. Ended up giving her a bottle, which I hate doing.

When these things happen before BT, I panic, which does not help one bit. Any idea what I could do to prevent this from happening again? -- Besides not panicking:)

Before nursing her I,
- Drink water
- exhale and then count 7 in /11 out
- sniff at her hair
What else can I do?






Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2014, 04:08:53 am »
Mine was always a bit slower at that last feed before bed, but weirdly the baby being fussy and upset would actually bring on let down!
Heidi




Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2014, 04:36:39 am »
Sometimes she whines like a puppy and that actually helps. Why does this have to be so tough!?






Offline Martini~

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2014, 07:33:35 am »
Hon, can you post your feeding routine? We had that when cluster feeding and you will be surprised what was the reason:).
~Marta

Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2014, 08:06:59 am »
Hi Marta. Okay so.. she is doing 3.20 A time with 2 naps of 1.5 hours with BT at 7.
At wakeup - feed 1 with a top-up 30 minutes before nap
after wu from nap 1 - feed again with top up 30mins before the second nap
after wu from nap 2 - feed
right before bed - feed (I used to split this feed around bath BUT now her last nap ends at 4.30 sometimes even 5, so not necessary anymore)

WDYT? I was wondering whether it was due to pumping..but I have no problem at any other time and not even at this feed on days when she is patient and actually does her part.






Offline Martini~

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2014, 08:59:23 am »
So can you please paste hours?
~Marta

Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2014, 10:15:29 am »
Okay..normal day k?

7 - WU and feed 1
8.30 - solids (BLW so basically nothing much)
10 - small top up feed
nap 1 - 10.20 - 12ish
12 - feed 2
2.45/3 - top up
3.20- hopefully 4.45 - nap 2
5 - feed 3
6 - bath/ massage
6.30 - feed 4 <---- this is the troublesome one!
7- sleep







Offline Martini~

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2014, 12:01:57 pm »
Hi Honey,

I will tell you what I think. E is tired and not so hungry at 6:30pm and that’s why you have a problem with feeding. No let down as no real hunger. She wants to suck the boob (F also wanted) but not as she is very hungry. Count that your boobs are drained a bit after 5pm feed and probably they need a strong signal to have a result.
I had that with F when he was 5-6mo and we were still cluster feeding. He was eating at 3pm, 5pm and at 7:10/7:15pm and at BT feed I was sometimes waiting 20-30min for let down with a screaming baby at my boob! Story was short: I was giving him boob to eat, he didn’t mind to suck for a bit but his suck was too weak so no milk was coming. So he resigned from boob after 2-3min not very hungry, but tired and wanted to sleep. I was offering it once again and once again as thought he had to be hungry. He was starting to scream “noooo, I don’t want”, he got winded up by screaming, so he needed boob to calm down. He was starting to suck, and I though that’s the sign that he is hungry… and the vicious cycle started all over.
When we went to bottle it became very clear to me as there was no problem with “let down” and he was eating very little amounts.

I would try to stop offering so many small feeds (you have 6 per day, aren't you?). So you could go for the routine:
7 milk
10 milk
12:00 lunch
2/3 milk
around 4pm small tea
6:30 milk

I was doing this routine for a long time (two meals w/o breakfast). You have 4 milk feeds in this plan, nicely spaced vs each other, and followed by solid meals. When E will be older you can add solid breakfast.
~Marta

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2014, 13:45:45 pm »
I agree with Marta fwiw, we ran into problems a little while ago (pre solids) when I was feeding at 5pm to tide B over to bedtime.  He would take a fullish feed at 5 then go crazy at BT, not fun :(. I think having a good gap between your afternoon feed and BT feed would help.

If it is any use to you, we are doing milk at 6.30ish, 10.45ish, 2.30/3ish and 6/6.15pm with solids at 7.30, 11.45/12ish and 4.30ish xx

Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2014, 14:16:19 pm »
I can't really count solids as part of the day as she eats nothing. But if I am understanding correctly, you are both suggesting that what needs to change is the spacing. So I feed on waking + 1 but after that I should instead move them to the middle or so of the A times?

I must mention - when I say top-up, its a very tiny amount - just 1 -2 mins. Sometimes, if she has gotten some solid food into her, she doesn't accept it at all. Like today she ate at 6.40, 12, 3, 4.45 & 6.30. At most feeds, she takes only one side. I can't seem to make her take both






Offline jessmum46

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2014, 14:20:49 pm »
I don't think the top-ups are the issue, I just think you need your last two feeds further apart.  You can't really expect a full feed at 5pm then another at 6.30pm.  How about feeding on WU from nap one and just before nap two (where you currently have a top up?). So 7/(10)/12/3/6.30?

Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2014, 14:26:20 pm »
Okay, I'll give it a shot:) I have been trying to Pavlov myself - picturing gushing rivers and singing one tune and all sorts of nonsense. Haven't had trouble these last two days. I think it is just performance anxiety on my part and of course her not being so hungry






Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2014, 14:28:49 pm »
Feeding so infrequently will not affect supply, right?






Offline jessmum46

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2014, 14:33:16 pm »
I only feed four times a day plus one night feed, same with DD at this age. No supply issues - at this age it's related to demand anyway, not frequency of feeding x

Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2014, 14:44:03 pm »
Okay. Thank you!






Offline Martini~

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2014, 15:28:37 pm »
Catherine suggestion of feeds are similar to what I suggested so I would give it a try. When she will be taking more solids you can try for changing noon feed to solids and that's how you will have 4 nice feeds a day. Until she doesn't eat solids I would go for more milk feeds but still full ones.
~Marta

Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2014, 11:47:31 am »
Thanks Marta!

So earlier, when we still had a CN. I wouldn't feed when she woke from CN. Instead I would split it around bath. Should I do that with last feed? Worried that she will take a full feed before bath then and again trouble






Offline Martini~

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2014, 13:22:26 pm »
Do you still DF or have NF? If yes, full feed before bath won't harm you as E will be even more hungry at DF than before. You may also be surprised as F took overall more milk in full feed at 6:30 than in feed at 5 and 7:10 altogether as at 5pm he was not hungry and at 7:10 he was too tired. For us it also helped to make the bath nicer as F always had a boost of energy after this feed and could play nicely during bath.

Moreover at that age I started to make sure not to make feed just before BT. When F was younger it helped me much to calm him down before sleep. At 5/6mo I started to teach him to go to sleep without BT feed. First days was more difficult, but quite quickly he learnt to.

Still you can give her a top up after bath, but if he takes a full feed at 6:30 even if she doesn't take much at 7 it should harm her.
~Marta

Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2014, 14:19:05 pm »
We don't have any NFs. We do a DF though. What you are saying makes complete sense. Going to move to this routine from tomorrow! Muah to both of you!






Offline jessmum46

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2014, 16:13:44 pm »
Good luck!

Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2014, 09:47:58 am »
I'm sorry to bother both of you again but I just can't figure this out
If she wakes at 7, feeds are at 7 (10), 12 (3), then I should go straight to 6 before bath and 6.30 ish after bath????? Won't the same letdown problem happen? I'm very confused. Last 3 days, she has woken from pm nap at 4, so I fed immediately. So then bedtime feed is at 6.30. No problem with the letdown BUT she nurses great on one side and then wants more from the other but isn't willing to suck anymore. She gives up, I put her down, she starts fussing in a few minutes -- renurse - again slow slow slow sucking but she hangs on till she gets a LD. Then she goes off to sleep happily. I just don't know what to do. Should I just cut out the top ups before naps and take a few short nap days to encourage her to take full feeds on wake up???






Offline Martini~

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2014, 10:40:30 am »
I think that at 6m+ and not much solid intake you should feed 3-4h apart. Not 2-2,5 as the feeds will be smaller but it may be that 4h w/o solids these days will be too much. Moreover usually afternoon/evening hours means more frequent feeds as kiddos know they are preparing for night:).

With 4pm feed, I would try one side before bath, one side after bath. She will be happy enough thru bath bath should happily take top up from second side later. If you feed at 3pm and give her full feed, she also should be ok with that routine. If not you may try both sides before bath, and nothing after.

With feed I would plan to go for full both sides feeds at 7, 10/11 (she has to be hungry here so you decide when to feed), 2/2:30. And than one side at 5/5:30 let say and second side at 6:30. If she is hungry in between I would try to offer max one top up and do both sides at 7, 10/11, 3, 6:30 and top up at 12 just after nap.

HTH!
~Marta

Offline *Ali*

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2014, 20:44:32 pm »
My DS2 wasn't a big solids eater and couldn't do the 3hr+ A time followed by a long nap between the first and second feeds so I gave the second feed before the nap. I then did solids shortly after WU from nap one and fed again either mid-A or shortly before the second nap. Then he had a top up BF when he woke from nap 2 (4.30pm) and the BT feed at 7.15pm. As he increased his solids I replaced the top up feed after nap 2 with dinner.  We didn't 100% BLW and he took quite a while before he was taking large quantities.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2014, 03:43:29 am »
Okay. So I will do solids first and push the feed at 2 /2.30 ish after WU from second nap. I also think she is growth spurting right now. Suddenly struck me yesterday! Thank you both!

Ali, all the best! So close now! Vibes for a smooth and safe delivery
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 10:35:32 am by newkidontheblock »






Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2014, 15:59:07 pm »
Hi ladies,
So today I fed at 7/10/2/4.30 and then split around bath at 6 & 6.30. I did that in the evening thinking that it might help with this growth spurt ish thing we are going through. I remembered that Tracy said during growth spurts, going back to cluster feeding helps. But yet the child started crying at lights out. DH went in first and really tried a lot to settle her. Finally I went in and since I couldn't bear the thought of her going fuss fuss fuss as after cluster feeding and her being sleepy, I knew she wouldn't bother sucking even, I offered a bottle and she took 3 oz and went off to sleep independently as usual. I tried to cut her off at 1 oz but she cried again when PD.
I pumped after that and I got 3 oz.

So although spacing feeds has definitely helped with the LD issue, a new one seems to have cropped up and nothing seems to be working. I'm just writing out the feeds from the last few days. Please tell me if I should start a new thread. I have been googling like mad to no avail!
This started from the 18th..so, feeds at
 18th - 6.40/ 12.30/5.15/6.30 - cried- re -nursed 7 (tough time nursing with cold & ear ache) DF - 41/2oz
19th - 6.40/9.30/12/4/6.15 - cried renurse - 6.30/ DF 5oz
20th - 7.30/ 10.30/1/ 2.30/4.30/ 6.30 - cried renurse - 6.50/  DF 61/2 oz
21st - 6.40/9.15/12/2.30/6/ 6.30 -fuss cried renurse Bottle 2 oz DF 61/2 oz

Can you see a pattern? One thing though, she is not taking both breasts. I simply can't make her! It isn't that I don't have enough..it is just that the child doesn't want to put in the effort. Grrr! Is it fine if on days that I can't letdown for the renurse, I give a bottle and pump instead? Or is that the wrong way to handle a growth spurt?






Offline jessmum46

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2014, 18:49:32 pm »
She doesn't need to take both breasts, she may be getting plenty from one :). DD single side fed from four month on, DS more variable but still on occasion only interested in one side.  The times he is fussiest nursing are when he is teething (on, off, on, off, cry, on, off, fuss etc etc) or not actually hungry because he's fed too recently.  I would personally avoid doing a split feed around bath, I would just do a proper feed either before or after and then not nurse again for fussiness.  I worry slightly that you could have a bit of a sucking association developing if you continue to respond to fussiness with more food?  She has plenty of opportunity for a good feed, so I would let her have that opportunity once and then settle her in other ways - shh pat, PUPD, WIWO, whatever that may be.  Have you tried pain meds in case it is teeth?

Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: Slow or no letdown
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2014, 03:36:19 am »
I agree. I even thought this could be similar to a child asking for 'just one more' story at bedtime. That's why I have been sending the husband in. He usually can settle her no time. The thing is, she isn't trying to go to sleep while sucking. As soon as she gets the milk, she will nurse and then is happy to be put down whether it takes 5 minutes or 15. She is also taking double hey normal quantity at DF and last night woke at 5 for another 5 oz. Not hungry this morning though. Ugh, hate that this is happening as we start our holiday. Hopefully she will nurse on the flight