Nap Refusal - Any advice for today if poss

[Hayleys]

Hi

If anyone sees this post today and is able to offer some advice then I'd really appreciate it!  My DD will be turning 2.5 in the next few weeks  Roughly 3 months ago she began to not fall asleep in her cot for her nap and instead she could not settle.  I then started to take her out in the car to AP her nap and she would be asleep within 10 mins and I could transfer her to the cot.  Initially making the nap a bit later and then capping it at 45 mins but after a few days she was not coping with this so I changed it to an earlier nap and capped it at 1 hr 15 mins.  This has been working very well for us.  We have been having shorter nights of usually 10 hrs or perhaps 10 hrs 30 mins but her mood has been fine and what we have been doing seems to have been working well.

However, the last few weeks have been tricker and she has been getting teary when being in the car and it has become difficult to AP her to sleep.  She has still been falling asleep in 10 mins though and sometimes at bedtime she has been falling asleep within an hr but at other times it has taken her 2 hrs to fall asleep (although the later is quite rare).  Today I tried to get her ready to go out in the car or pushchair for her nap and she was absolutely hysterical.  So instead I decided to put her in her cot with some books for quiet time so we could just see what happened.  My husband has been with her for most of the morning and he has said how tired she has seemed so it's not as if she is suddenly wide awake.

So her current EASY looks something like this:
WU 7 - 7:30
S 1:15 - 2:30 (capped)
BT 8 pm (the time she falls asleep can vary greatly though, but usually if she falls asleep later then she will wake later, has not been night waking at all)

I feel at a lose of what to do today.  She has been in her cot for 40 mins now and doesn't seem to be settling.  I'm thinking if she does fall asleep then to give her a very short nap of perhaps 30 mins?  If she doesn't sleep then to give her an early bedtime but wondering what time I should do that for? In the past she has not been great at tacking on sleep so I feel that I don't want to let her sleep too early as I fear that she will wake up very early.  I'm also very worried about her waking in the night due to OT.  Do you think this is the start of the 1-0, any ideas and thoughts very much appreciated! 

[Hayleys]

Hi

Just to update, she fell asleep at 2:30 pm in her cot. I'm going to let her have a 45 min nap and keep bedtime for 8 pm. I'll see what happens but perhaps a later nap times a a shorter nap is now the way to go? A few months a go when I tried a 45 min nap she did well for a few days but then got ver tired and had a big meltdown which is why I increased it. Maybe she is ready for this now though?

Any general advice or thoughts on what is happening still very much appreciated! x

[Buttonbobs]

There is a regression around 2.5 years and if this were a recent thing it could be just a blip, but I think as it's been going on a while and you've only been able to maintain the nap using AP, I do think this is the 1-0.

Have you read this link?

8 month old bottle refusal on Tracey's program - 12 hours into hunger strike PLEASE HELP!

I found the info really helpful. You could continue to move nap later until she'll take it without AP, and cap it, perhaps to 45/30 mins, or you could do as you did today and offer her quiet time/nap. If she naps you can do last Bt and an EBT if she doesn't have a nap.

You may find you need to move BT a little later if she doesn't settle easily after a nap.

[Truly Blessed]

I do think this is the 1-0.

Hi Honey,

Just popping on with extra (HUGS) and to say I agree with the above, it is somewhat classic 1-0.

Wanted also to add this, which I think you will find very helpful:

The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.

x.

[Buttonbobs]

Thanks Vicki, that was the link I was supposed to post

[Truly Blessed]

Thanks Vicki, that was the link I was supposed to post

LOL, having put it together myself during the shock of the 1-0 transition, I use it a lot! I thought DS would just stop napping and sleep longer at night That really was my plan, but he didn't get the memo apparently

x.

[Hayleys]

Thank you very much for your responses ladies.  It so nice to have your support and advice.  So this is how her day looked yesterday:

WU 7:30 am
S 2:30 – 3:15 (capped but extremely hard to wake and was in a deep sleep)
BT 8pm (However did not fall asleep until 10:15 pm)
WU 7:30 am

So as you can see it did take her a long time to fall asleep at bedtime despite seeming tired.  She did sleep all night though and happily woke at 7:30 am.
 
My husband has been with her today and he said that despite the very short night sleep, she has not seemed extremely tired this morning.  He put her in her cot for quiet time (she is very receptive to this as it is new and exciting and she fell asleep at 1:20 pm today).  We decided to cap her sleep at an hr today to try to help with any OT build up and still hopefully have a better time for her to fall asleep at BT.  We’ll see how that goes later.  I think that if she had had more night sleep though she would not have fallen asleep for her nap this early and she only did this due to the short night.
I have found that she needs quite a long A time before BT and we usually don’t let her sleep past 2:30 pm.  So I wonder if the later nap yesterday, despite it being shorter than usual, perhaps still did not leave enough A time before BT so hence the difficulty in falling asleep.

What do you think is the best way forward from here?  It was hard to wake her after 45 mins into her nap yesterday but do you think I should start to try a 20 – 30 min nap if she falls asleep in her cot later than usual and see if this helps with her settling at bedtime.  If for some reason she does not fall asleep for her nap then perhaps I should go for EBT, but what time would that be?  I’m so nervous about that though as she has always not been good at tacking on sleep in the past.  At the most she has done an 11 hr night and that is very occasional.  Any other ideas, really appreciated!

[Truly Blessed]

Hmmm, tricky as always. It sounds to me like she is going to be a LO who still needs the nap for a while and a shorter night, but I'm guessing 10.15 falling asleep time is not going to work for you  .

I think IIWM, I would be tempted to try keeping the nap at the same A time, so a long morning. But start cutting it back 15 mins at a time, so stick with the hour for a few days and see how she does before tweaking any more. I would also keep the afternoon long enough to hopefully achieve a decent BT without lying awake for any length of time...maybe something like this:

WU 7.30

Nap 2 til 3 capped

BT 8.30 (you could get her into bed by 8 for stories etc in the hope of winding down better.

If her WU is earlier usually, say 7 am then just shift everything forward by 30 mins. My thinking is this: Keeping the morning long may help ensure she takes the nap. Hopefully long morning will over ride shorter afternoon. Not enforcing BT too early in the hope of a quicker settling time. Of course if this were to work then she would be clocking up 12 hours sleep over the 24 hours, would this be enough to keep her going  Is he high/average or low sleep needs do you think  The trick is to figure out what will help her get the most sleep in 24 hours, that's the goal.

What do you think Hun  Please be honest, you know her best 

x.

[Hayleys]

Hi

Thank you for your help! Yes 12 hrs of sleep in a 24 hr period is definitely enough for her and this is roughly what she has been having up until now, sometimes a little less even.  So the last few days have gone like this:

WU 7:30
S 1:20 - 2:20 (was very hard to wake so actually did not fully wake until 2:30 pm)
BT 8 pm (did not fall asleep until 10 pm)

WU 7:30
S 1:20 - 2:20
BT 8:30 (did not fall asleep until 9:55 pm)

WU 7:30 am

So this is where we are right now. This is the third night she has only has 9 hrs 30 mins night, but is still sleeping through the night. She actually is in a great mood but this may not last if this continues for much longer. I've been looking back on my post from 3 months ago when all of this started and at one point I started to cap her nap at 45 mins. This allowed for her to fall asleep quicker at BT but after a few days, despite being very surprised at how well she was handling the shorter nap for about 4 days, she then had a massive OT meltdown. So this is when I started to AP her nap in the car and cap it at 1 hr 15 mins. This has meant that BT has varied a lot for the last 3 months, but on average it was usually taking her an hr to fall asleep, sometimes more and sometimes a little less.

I do agree though she is absolutely a lo who seems to like to hold on to the nap even if this means a shorter night. In your post you mentioned a 2 pm nap time so as you can see her nap has been earlier just because she has been ready for it. Would a later nap time make a difference? I'm guessing not as she also seems to need a length A time before bed. Any ideas on how to move forward? I know you mentioned perhaps capping the nap further by 15 mins after a few days. Do you think we're ready to do that? She is in a deep sleep at nap time and very reluctant to wake. Also although this was just a one off and perhaps not really a true reflection on how things could be, the other day I capped her nap at 45 mins when her nap was from 2:30 -3:15 (so later) and this is when she fell asleep at 10:15 pm.

With regard to having longer days with a later BT then that's fine for now. I'd prefer it over having OT night wakes!! Thanks again for your help xxx

[Buttonbobs]

Hey there, we had an LO who needed to keep a longer nap and then have a late Bt and shorter night. I think at the end we were doing 2/2.30 nap for up to 2 hours and then Bt was 10/0.30ish. After a week the short nights did lead to OT and at that point we were able to start cutting the nap completely on some days, bringing BT right back to 7 on those NNDs.

So I agree that if it's working for you now then no need to change it yet, but if Ot starts to creep in then you may need to do something to lengthen those nights again.

HTH xx

[Truly Blessed]

I agree However  will say, it does seem with the 1-0 that what is working doesn't last for a great amount of time usually, so check in with us if this is the case 

x.

[Buttonbobs]

^^^absolutely xxx

[Hayleys]

Hi

Things are not going well now. This was her EASY for the last two days
WU 7:30
S 1:15 - 2:30
BT 9:00 (didn't fall asleep until 10 pm, had some resistance to going to bed as well despite seeming tired)

WU 8:10
S 1:45- 2:45
BT 9:00 but was not asleep until 11:45 and had a lot of BT resistence.

So the resistance ended up with her having a massive meltdown. She was hysterical about going to bed, it was awful as she has never been like that before at BT. Usually she will go into bed without a problem . After trying a few different things I started to do WI/WO and it was horrid. She was beside herself with tears. I was really taken aback as to her reaction and I haven't done WIWO for so long I felt that I wasn't sure if I was doing it right. I actually then took heron the car as we were both getting so upset and I didn't know what else to do - ugh!!! She feel asleep quite quickly at 11:15 pm - yikes!!! She slept all night and I am beginning to hear her now at 8:10 am and she sounds very grumpy and I suspect still tired.

I really don't know what to do today. Do I try a very short nap of 20 mins or a NND? I also suspect to iChat at BT will be tricky and I worry about having to do WI/WO and feel I have lost my confidence. She was so upset last night, I'm dreading having to do that again. Any help for today is greatly appreciated!! 

[Hayleys]

Last nights BT was 11:15 not 11:45.

[Truly Blessed]

Hello Honey,

I'm sorry I opened my big mouth!    This is typical, things just keep changing all the time with the 1-0  . I would shoot for a nap of 45 mins max now.

Unfortunately I think it is unlikely that you are going to be able to achieve much consistency over these coming weeks, but let's keep our finger's crossed, it may be that you get into the swing of what is best to do going from the previous day and night. Have you tried a later nap to see if long morning over rides shorter afternoon 

How about trying this today:

WU 8.10

Nap 2 to 2.45

BT as soon as you can achieve.

In all honesty this is going to be trial an error Honey I would say that obviously as you will be watching her, you might need to roll with the punches, for eg: if she is melting down by 12.30 you may have to let her sleep, but maybe the earlier the nap the shorter it should be. I did do late cat naps for DS during the 1-0 on some days, and once I actually managed to wake him, he dealt with it quite well, I gave him 20 minutes, but only ever in the car, because a 20 min nap in the cot was something I didn't feel he would deal with well. Is there something you can do which she loves upon waking her from her nap for eg 'movie time' or a favourite treat  needs must!

What do you think, how is she and what does your gut tell you is best for today 

lots of (HUGS)

x.