Author Topic: Please help!! Struggling with shh-pat!  (Read 1333 times)

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Offline mmoats12

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Please help!! Struggling with shh-pat!
« on: January 02, 2015, 23:06:08 pm »
Hello everyone!

I'm really struggling with EASY, mostly the nap part, and I'm hoping I could get some insight…or possibly just some encouragement to keep slogging away…from some more experienced Mom's out there that have maybe struggled with the same things. This is my first baby.
 
My baby is 10 weeks old tomorrow, and is taking very short naps, 45minutes at the most, sometimes 5, 10, 20 minutes. My husband and I have spent the last week doing nothing but concentrate on keeping to the routine and trying to extend his naps, with no luck. I have read anything and everything out there on baby sleep and naps, so I know about the magic 20 minute mark, the transition at 45 minutes and the jolts, usually at 5-10 minutes as the reason for his waking at these times. We have been doing the shh-pat method, which seems to work to calm him down but rarely puts him back to sleep. If he does go back to sleep, he usually wakes up within five minutes if we stop patting, even if it's past the 20 minute mark and he appears to be in that slow-breathing, deep sleep phase. We have tried wake-to-sleep a couple times, but often he won't even get to that 30 minute mark before waking up.

I started EASY on day 2 home from the hospital, and have always put him to sleep swaddled in his crib. I don't nurse him to sleep (unless he falls asleep at night, then I just put him down) and don't put him to sleep in a swing/chair. I have a soothing nap/bedtime routine that both my husband and I follow, and I don't think he is too overstimulated. I don't shlep him to and from activities, most errands and such I do when my husband is home, other than when I have to take him, like doctors appointments. He is usually awake for between 1hour to 1 hour 15 minutes before he yawns and shows me his cues. The beginning of the routine often goes well, until I swaddle him, at which point, he starts to fight and squirm like crazy. I have tried a couple different swaddles, and without swaddling at all. I sit with him, and shh-pat and sing until he is calm and his eyes are starting to close, and then put him down. At which point, he usually starts to cry. Sometimes he appears to drift off but then wakes up a few minutes later. There have been times where I have been able to put him down and he will go to sleep on his own and sleep for longer stretches during the day, so I know it is possible. But lately, these times have been very rare.   

Bedtime has been established since he was about 4 weeks old. We do our routine, I nurse him, when he is starting to get drowsy I swaddle and put him down around 6:30pm and he will often sleep until between 2-4am without a peep. However, recently, he has started waking up every 45 minutes at bedtime too, and is needing much more soothing to initially go to sleep. This is why I am getting concerned is because I feel like I am going backwards!

So…my questions for anyone who thinks they can help…

1. Is this just how it is at this stage? Or am I doing something wrong? My friends have told me that things usually start to get better between 3-4 months, has anyone else noticed this?

2. After two or three failed nap times in the morning, I can tell he is over tired, making future nap attempts even harder….and I don't know what to do at this point? Is it better to just get him to sleep any way I can at this point so that he doesn't become even more overtired and frustrated and not worry about the "sleep prop" thing? Or do I just keep slogging away and putting him down again and again and again even if it doesn't seem to get him the much needed sleep he needs? I do take him for walks in the stroller in the afternoon if his morning naps haven't gone well in order to get him some much needed sleep, where he will sleep soundly for 2 or more hours. Is this helping by getting him more sleep? Or is it making it harder to put him down in the crib because he is getting used to sleeping in the stroller?

3. How is the shh-pat different than any other sleep prop? If I have to shh-pat him for 45 minutes in order for him to nap, how is that any better than putting him in a swing or stroller? At least in the stroller, I am able to get out and get some much needed fresh air and exercise! It has been weeks now, and I haven't managed to get much more than ten minutes of "You" time during the day, and some days are so bad that both him and I are in tears by the time my poor husband gets home. The book says that the shh-pat teaches him how to fall asleep on his own, but after weeks spent bent over the crib patting my little heart out, I am failing to see how this is teaching him anything?

I am willing to put in the work to get him on this EASY routine, as I think it will benefit him hugely. But my own sanity is in danger! I cry so often and struggle so much with this, I just want to do what is best for him and get him the sleep that I know he needs, and I feel like I am failing miserably. Please help!
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 00:21:09 am by mmoats12 »

Offline nevinsmama

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Re: Please help!! Struggling with shh-pat!
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2015, 02:43:10 am »
Hi there! Welcome to BW! I promise you, things WILL get better! The rubbish, frustrating, silly, short naps usually lengthen out around 6 months. Some earlier of course. You are doing so well by your LO trying to sort things out and work on independent sleep and what all. I was OBSESSED with sorting my DS's short naps when he was this age. I sort of lost some perspective on it!

Your LO is still pretty tiny. IN my opinion, I would commit to 1 nap in the crib with shh/pat and then do your preferred method of AP for the others until he gets a bit older. With your own sanity in danger, (I get it, I really do!) I would step back, take a few deep breaths and remember that there is PLENTY of time to work on this when he is a bit older and some LOs do take to it better later on.

 Once a LO this tiny gets some OT going it can be SO hard to settle them later in the day!

I am just going to drop some links off here for general info and WRT your other question re: shh/pat and a prop.
Hang in there, it will be OK.  Don't hesitate to cuddle with your LO or take him out in the stroller to let him sleep.

Let us know if you have any more questions!  :)


http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=84884.0
Getting started - how I survived the first 3 months
Why are Shush Pat and PU/PD not props?

Maryn


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Offline mmoats12

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Re: Please help!! Struggling with shh-pat!
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2015, 03:55:40 am »
Thank you for the encouragement! I think I just sometimes need someone to tell me that I'm doing ok! I'm a teacher of little 5/6 year olds, so I see the adverse effects of overtired children everyday, and it can be a real stumbling block for them in their future! I also really want to avoid using sleep props so that I don't have to deal with it down the road. But I agree, I think for my sanity, I am going to try just doing one/two nap in the morning in the crib, and then one in the stroller so I can get out and get some exercise, and not worry about it too much!

I read the article on how shh-pat isn't considered a sleep prop…I still don't really get it, how it actually teaches them to sleep, but am willing to stick it out until he is a bit older!

Thank you again so much for your post! I thought I was going to lose my mind yesterday!!

Offline katie80

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Re: Please help!! Struggling with shh-pat!
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2015, 04:51:53 am »
(((Hugs))), honey, please do get out and get some excercise and let him sleep in the stroller. I put both my DSs in the swing for one long nap per day until they were 5/6mo old. DS1 went down independently for all other sleeps, but only slept short naps. DS2 rarely went down independently until I had the chance to do some sleep training with him around 6mo, and slept short naps as well. It was a life-saver for me and ultimately not hard to undo either time.

As for shh/pat not becoming a prop, the key is that you eventually, gradually remove the shh/pat, so that your LO can drop off on his own. So, while in the beginning you shh/pat until he's all the way asleep and maybe 15-20min into sleep, after little while you will only shh/pat to calm him and then let him drift off on his own. You'll then get to the point where you put him in the crib calm, but awake and shh/pat only if he gets upset, stopping again when he's calm and then letting him go to sleep on his own. Shh/pat can become a prop if you never go through the process of reducing it or if you do it unnecessarily when LO is not needing it. Otherwise, it's a tool to help a LO calm down and learn how to drift off to sleep on his own. Does that help?

I am wondering, however, if you've noticed any signs of discomfort or reflux in your LO. It's imoortant to rule out discomfort in a LO who struggles so much to get and stay asleep, because if there is some discomfort there, sleep training will likely be futile. Have a read through this link and let us know your thoughts: Reflux 101 - General reflux information



Offline mmoats12

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Re: Please help!! Struggling with shh-pat!
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2015, 20:19:27 pm »
Thank you Katie! I have had a little bit more success with the shh-pat in the last couple days. My husband and I have been able to get him to nap for 40 minutes (one sleep cycle) with just a few minutes of shh-pat, so now that I can see he can do it on his own, I'm trying to reduce the amount of time I keep doing it after he is calm, and seems to be (slowly) working. He still struggles to get through the second sleep cycle without my help, but from what I've read on here, that is a fairly normal problem that I'm hoping with a bit of help, changes as he gets older.

I have been walking in the stroller since he was born, but I guess I was feeling really bad about it, thinking that I was creating bad habits, and possibly the reason why he struggles with naps so much? It's good to hear that other people do the same thing, committing to one or two naps in the crib, and then doing whatever for the other ones. Putting them down for 4-5 naps a day at this point is exhausting, especially when it takes a long time, and a lot of back breaking shy-patting!!

Thanks for that article, I have wondered about that. I read it and he does have a few of those symptoms, but I think it's just considered normal for what babies do when their digestive systems haven't fully matured?? Although I am not really sure… He sleeps like a champ at night and is able to put himself back to sleep at night, and he doesn't have any pain of discomfort, so I don't think that is problem with his naps. He is always really calm until the swaddle…oh how he hates that!! But it does allow him to sleep longer once he is asleep so I'm just going to keep doing it for awhile!

Thanks for the help…I feel like just a little bit of a change in my perspective, expectations and attitude had made a WORLD of difference in the last couple days!!

Offline katie80

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Re: Please help!! Struggling with shh-pat!
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2015, 21:10:48 pm »
Sounds good! Short naps can definitely be developmental at this point, but I wonder if you're trying to put him down a tad early if he's fighting the swaddle and sleeping mostly 40min. :-\ Those are both signs he could be a little undertired. Could you post a few days of your EASY routine for us to take a look at? Maybe there's a tweak to make that might help the naps lengthen.



Offline mmoats12

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Re: Please help!! Struggling with shh-pat!
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2015, 17:05:56 pm »
Yup…here is my EASY routine that's developed over the last couple weeks…

7am(ish) wake up, feed, diaper change

7:45am - activity time

8:15-8:30 - nap in crib- usually goes down ok, still fights swaddle. Sleeps 45 minutes on own, but I try to extend this nap with shh-pat and can usually get him to sleep 1.5 hours.

10am (ish) - feed, diaper change

10:40am - activity time

11:15-11:30 - nap in stroller- this is usually when I go for my walk, and he usually sleeps the whole time, for 1.5 hours.

1pm (ish) - Feed, diaper change

1:40pm - Activity time

2:15pm - nap in crib, 45 minutes

3pm (ish) - feed, diaper change

4:15 (ish) - nap, 45 minutes…this is that hardest one, doesn't always happen, or I have to use some AP to get him to sleep

5:00pm - feed, diaper change

6:30pm - bedtime, bath, feed, jammies, then asleep for the night

2:00am - feed


One thing that has started to happen recently is that I will hear him wake up at night for a few minutes, but then put himself back to sleep by himself. Last night, this happened at 4am and 5am, and then he actually slept until 8am. So I know he is starting to be able to self sooth a little bit, and make it through those transitions at night. But during naps, if I "don't rush in" and let him fuss a little bit during the transition to the second sleep cycle, then he gets super worked up really quickly, and it's very difficult, or impossible, to extend his nap.

The other thing that I'm wondering is because he is a great night sleeper, and averages between 12-13 hours at night with just one feed…maybe he doesn't need longer naps during the day? Although, if I just let him have a 45 minute nap, his activity time after is much shorter before he gets tired, which makes me think he really does need longer naps during the day.




Offline echohush

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Re: Please help!! Struggling with shh-pat!
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2015, 22:50:35 pm »
Hi there! I just wanted to pop in and say that I am in exactly the same boat since about 9 weeks and we're now on 13+.  I'm going to tag along. Please keep updating as I'd love to know how things develop for you.  For our DS the only thing that works now is rushing in at the 45 min mark and holding or rocking. Shh/pat made him terribly upset and still does. So I do shh/patt in the rocker - also because I have terrible back problems and cannot stand at the crib. I know it's not the same at all but it is working most of the time. It's just hard to get out of the room after his first cycle. So I live life in 45 min intervals. Right now I am working on extending his A time, mostly to reduce the amount of interventions I am making. He has always been on the sleepy side but is tolerating this process- so far no luck on extending the nap this way. :(


    

Offline katie80

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Re: Please help!! Struggling with shh-pat!
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2015, 01:24:12 am »
Sorry for the delayed response!

So I live life in 45 min intervals.
(((Hugs))), I totally get that! All three of mine were short nappers from 2/2.5-5/6mo. It's frustrating, but it does end. :)


mmoats - I'd say your EASY looks on track. If you want to try to add 5-10min onto your A time and see if that helps him settle/resettle better, you sure could try. Otherwise, I'd keep doing what you're doing, work on independent sleep as much as is healthy for both of you and know that eventually he will sleep longer naps. 



Offline mmoats12

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Re: Please help!! Struggling with shh-pat!
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2015, 03:02:49 am »
Thanks Katie! I actually put him down this morning with a few whimpers, but no real cries!! YAHOO!! That hasn't happened in over a month! He still can't seem to make it through that first sleep cycle arousal, but I don't mind the short naps as much when it's not a struggle to get him down in the first place! We have had more luck with the shh-pat this week as well, so I'm hoping that continues!!

Offline katie80

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Re: Please help!! Struggling with shh-pat!
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2015, 05:13:02 am »
Sounds good! It's not unusual for some babies to take some time to warm up to shh/pat. I'm so glad it's working quicker for you, long may it continue! :)