5.5months and eating more at night

[aMei]

DS is 5.5 months old. I'm worried that he is eating more at night than he is during the day. I don't actually know in terms of ounces because he is exclusively breastfed. His EASY is usually consistent for 3/4 days then for some reason, it gets all wonky again.

So here is what it is the most recent.

During the day, he only feeds on 1 breast during each feeding and averages 5 min only.

Wake and E 8:30am
A 2 hrs
S 10:30-11:45am/noon
E noon
A 2 hrs
S 2-3:15/3:30pm
E 3:30
A 2 hrs
S 5:30-6:15pm
E 6:15pm
A bath
E 8pm
S in bed for the night by 8:30pm

I try to dream feed around 10:30-11pm, but often times ds will wake up crying inconsolably a little before 10pm. So, I end up "df" earlier closer to 10-10:15pm. He will then feed from both breasts and averages 15-20min per side.

He then wakes up again some time between 2:30am and 3:30am. Again, he feeds from both sides and will usually stay awake for 1.5-2hrs. If he falls asleep while feeding, he will wake again within 2 hours. If he has the awake time for 1.5-2hrs, he will stay asleep till 8:30am. But, he staying awake for so long feels "wrong." Any thoughts? When he's awake after feeding, we do his usual sleep routine and sh/pat, but he won't fall asleep unless it's been at least 1.5hrs.

It's so hard not to compare. DS1 was sleeping through the night at 3 months, but it doesn't seem like DS2 is even close. Should I expect him to not wake for the 2/3am feeding or  is this normal? I've checked the sample EASYs and it doesn't look like any babies are still doing df's or night feedings.....

Any thoughts, suggestions, advice? Thank you!

[Buttonbobs]

Hi there. It looks to me like possibly he might be ready to have a little longer awake in the daytime each time, and possibly moving to drop that CN.

Have you seen this?

Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

This shows average A times for various ages, and you'll see that some LOs are awake for nearer to 3 hours before sleep in the day at this age. I would try pushing out his A time and see if you can get him to take two naps of 1.5 hours or more rather than less than 1.5 hours. This will probably also involve cutting the CN, but this should get you through the day ok. He may well currently be a little UT and this can then lead to OT, and this leads to a mix of long NWs on the early hours, and NWs shortly after Bt.

One other thought, it would be usual to offer a DF at around 10/11pm if the LO we were going to sleep at about 7/7.30pm, you might need to offer the DF later than you are for it not to disrupt night sleep. As that first waking is after only two hors he is feedig more at night than in the day, tey and reverse this if you can by offering no more regularly at night than in the daytime. I'm going to ask someone with BF experience to look at this too as I was bottle feeding by this stage - but the ideal would be for him to be taking more, perhpS both sides in the daytime, and feeding less regularly at night.

Have you seen the threads on the 3-2 transition?

All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

What do you think?

[*Ali*]

It is definitely more common for a EBF baby to be having at least one NF/DF at this age than not.  Even a couple feeds is well within the range of normal.
Have a look at this FAQ and you will see over 50% of LOs are over 6mo before STTN from the DF time.Night Feeds and the Breast Fed Baby

How does your LO fall asleep for naps? Is he an independent sleeper or are you in the room?

As Naomi suggests I would work on getting him to take more milk in the day.  Have you tried feeding in a dark room immediately upon wake up?  Or maybe offer the second breast after a short break for a nastily change for example.

The long NW I suspect are due to UT and an increase in A time may help

[aMei]

Thanks so much for the suggestions! I was starting to feel like we needed to extend his A time, because his naps were getting shorter. So, his first A is now up to 2.5 hrs, but the rest of the naps is still closer to 2hr. He starts getting whinny and fussy. We'll keep working to extend it!

I don't want to do his DF so early, but sometimes he wakes up inconsolable. We've had him continue to cry for 30+min even while we are holding him. Should we just persist and not do DF until 11pm earliest? Ultimately I do want to move his bed time earlier to 7:30-8pm, but it only seems to be getting later and later with extending A times but still needing the cat nap.

He is mostly an independent sleeper. We hide in his room after we finish our routine and put him in his crib. We hide, because the door makes noise and it's more disruptive to go in and out. hehe... I know he can't see us, but should we actually leave. So, he is able to fall asleep independently and is getting better at getting through jolts on his own.

During the day feedings are a battle usually. DS wants to play and wants to be done in 2-3 min. He will even get mad at me for continuing to offer my breast. I did try feeding without the lights on during the day and it seems to be helping. Thanks for that tip! During the DF I still offer both breasts, but for the NF I've tried offering just 1 and it seems not to be affecting him. It didn't make him any hungrier in the morning either. He was still done after 2/3 min. I've started massaging during day time feedings to get him to drink more in the same amount of time...may be that works? DS only stays on for more than 5 min when he's sleepy...

DS is a chubby one, so I'm not worried about how much he's getting....I just don't want him to be waking up from hunger at night. This mommy is desperate for longer stretches of sleep. :/

[*Ali*]

No if he is crying at night I would feed him at this age rather than hold out for the DF time.
Does he take a big feed at BT? Both sides? You could try wake to sleep at 9.30 to see if he is happy to resettle then without a feed and then sleep past the 10pm point so you can do a proper DF.

I'd wake him after 30 mins for the CN so you can get him in bed 15-20 mins earlier if you prefer.

Can you leave his door open so you can leave quietly and then close it (if you need to) when he is in a deep sleep? Is he not in your room?

Yes I'd persist with the dark room for feeds and the breast compressions/massage to keep him interested in day feeds. My DS2 was down to 6 min feeds by this point but yes 2-3 mins does sound extremely quick. What if you offer the other side after that?

[aMei]

Since I cluster feed at 6:15pm and 8pm, I only feed one side each. It's only the DF that I feed both sides now. He's actually been sleeping past 10pm for the DF. He keeps changing every few days. He's changed his routines since I initially posted. haha.. Today, I decided to wash his lovey and forgot to dry it, so it wasn't ready for him at bed time. He cried off and on for an hour. I guess now I know that he's attached to his lovey...I wasn't so sure before. yikes!

The first night I DF at 11pm, he woke up around 4:30am. I was so excited. The second night, he woke up around 3:30am. Last night, he woke up around 2:30am and again at 5:20am and had a really hard time going back to sleep. We think he might be teething?

We just moved him to his own room about a week ago. And, we've started leaving the room after we put him down. He sometimes cries after we leave, but usually we don't need to go back in. He quiets pretty quickly.

I have to keep offering/coaxing to get him to feed for anything over 4 min. With the dark room, he is a little easier. I was able to get ~8min. He also has an older brother that he's super interested in. If he hears older brother at all, he wants to join him.

[Buttonbobs]

How is he managing with a stretch in A times? Feel free to keep posting your EASY, we can then spot anything that might help.

[aMei]

He gets whinny towards the end of his A times and is really happy when we start our sleep routine. He also seems to be on his way to be waking up later after the dream feed. He used to wake up between 2-3am and now it's more like 4-5am. However, he is having a hard time going back to sleep. A few nights ago, he woke up at 4:30am and had a really hard time going back to sleep. By the time he fell asleep again it was around 6am. This morning, he woke up at 5am to feed. He had a dirty diaper, so after changing it was close to 6am. I put him down and he tried to fall asleep and it seemed like he did fall asleep, but only for about 15 min. He then started whimper/cry. With sh/pat, he tried again and began whimper/cry again after about 15min. Hubby went in to sh/pat, but DS would not stop crying. Hubby picked up and DS continued to cry even louder. DS only stopped crying once when hubby began humming our sleep ritual song, but would begin crying again. Hubby tried humming again with no affect. Finally, I return to try and help. After trying sh/pat or pick up put down with DS continuously crying, I realize that it is now 7am and I decided to just have him wake up for the day. However, now I'm not sure when to count as his wake up time. And, is 5am now his new wake up time??? I don't have his EASY for yesterday because we were out all day visiting grandparents. He did get 3 short naps of 1 hr, 30min, 50min.

The EASY of the day before was:
8:15am wake up
E 9am (he had woken up at 5:30am to feed, so i delayed it till 9am. Should I have just fed him when he woke up?)
A
S10:45am-12:20pm
E 12:40pm (again delayed due to late feeding during last stretch)
A
S 2:35pm-3:45pm
E 4:15pm
A
S 5:25-6pm
E 6pm
A
E 7:40pm
S This was the night I washed his bear, but did not have it ready for bed time...so it was up and down till we gave him his bear close to 9pm...
DF 11:10pm
wake at 5am to feed, dirty diaper change, and went back to sleep easily at 5:40am. Woke for the day at 8am

[Buttonbobs]

Those wakings could be the result of just getting used to the changes, if they continue after a few days let us know and we can think again. It's normally necessary to hold things for a few days after each A time increase so you can let an LO get used to the shift.

So keep posting so we can look in a couple of days again, if you find it helpful.

[aMei]

I hope that it will get better soon. I will post again if necessary.

I do have another question though. The typical pattern is 2 long and 1 short nap at the end of the day. If for some reason, the earlier naps are shorter, is it okay to do a longer nap for the last one? Or, should we still keep it short and just do an earlier bed time?

[Buttonbobs]

It depends on how short the naps on really. In the example day you posted above, it is possible that the second nap could move a little later. You got a good nap off a first A of 2.5 hours and hen a slightly shorter nap after a slightly shorter A time of 2 hours 20ish. So, perhaps extend that second A time a bit and then do the CN.

If you get two short short naps, say 30 mins/45 mins then yes you might need to try a longer nap in the afternoon. There could be time if you reduce the A times accordingly to make up for the lack of restorative sleep earlier in the day, but you'd need to make sure you had a full A time between the end of the nap at BT to eliminate UT. I hope that all makes sense