quick question about nap length

[AMJ]

Hi ladies. We are in trouble.... Still but there is more to it now then it was previously. For the past few days DD was awaken by the sound of heavy rain and thunderstorm. We live on the top floor and we have slanted windows so when it rains it is loud. She never was bothered by this before but I'm guessing now that she is older she is more aware of her surroundings. She notices every noise in our place and asks " what's that noise". I always tell her it's our neighbours or something like that. It's been raining almost every night here for the past little while and she's been awaken because of that every time. She screams for me and is very afraid. I sit with her in a rocking chair to help her calm down for a bit but after I lay her in her crib she takes anywhere from 2-3hrs to fall back asleep. Tonight she woke up on her own I think from OT and was ok for about 1hr but then heard some noise and called for me. Again I said it must be the neighbours etc and she was fine with it. I left. In a little while she called for me again crying that there is a fly in her room. I didnt think there was a fly otherwise she would've noticed it earlier. Also I didn't want to turn the light on to look for it so o don't get her to excited, plus she sleeps with a mosquito net over her crib. Aside from rain waking her I think she keeps coming up with different things in order to sit with me in a rocking chair. It probably became a prop. I try to keep conversations to a minimum now and tell her she is safe and everything is ok and she needs to go back to sleep.

Because of all this I can't cap her nap anymore because she is just too tired already and I feel I need to give her a longer or uncapped nap to catch up from being awaken by the rain.

We are moving back to Canada in 3 weeks so the problem with the rain waking her because of slanted windows should be solved (although we are going to be staying at my parents for a while and their house is right by a busy street and the traffic gets pretty loud early in the morning plus not to mention all other new sounds ) but till then do you have any suggestions on how to handle this? I'm exhausted. And it's not the best timing since I need to pack everything and etc before the move.  And the weather channel says that it will be rain and thunderstorm for a while longer .

Thanks in advance

P.S. She is still teething but it looks like it the teeth are almost erupted so shouldn't be much longer.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Oh poor you  I think I'd try gradual withdrawal to deal with the NWs if she's genuinely scared, or WIWO has worked better for us for monkeying around.  It does sound like it starts with genuine fear though.

I'll try and find the relevant links but with lily I used to walk over to her, say a reassuring sleepy phrase, and then sit by her cot  (or in your chair if that's what you're already doing), not look at her and not talk.  If she got really upset I'd repeat the sleepy phrase without looking at her, and talking in a really boring voice, if you know what I mean?! Then the next night I'd do the same but move slightly further away, til I was at, and then outside the door.

The only trouble is, that'll take a while and may not shorten the nws in the meantime.  I don't know what else will though  - we used to have 2-3 he nws with Jack and I never found anything to shorten them except WIWO and a serious cut in the amount of day sleep he had, which stopped them altogether.

I understand you not wanting to cap your LOs nap while this is going on. Are you able to make sure she gets a good long A before bed? Our nws come back if J naps too close to BT (he now needs about 6hrs A after a 30 minute nap), so that could be contributing to  / lengthening the nws. That's the only other thing I can think of suggesting.

Hopefully in a few weeks time you'll be away from the situation, her teeth will be through, and things will be more stable. Hang on in there!

[AMJ]

Yes she is genuinely scared that's why I felt that I needed to cuddle her.

Last night after she called me for the final time saying that there is a fly in her room, I was very firm with her saying that she is safe etc and told her no more calling and its time to sleep. She started to cry when I was leaving but calmed down within a minute and fall back asleep about 15/20 minutes later(total awake time was 2hrs though). So I think WI/WO is working so far. Thanks for explaining what you do! I tend to forget those things.

So you are suggesting to shorten her nap even more in hopes that even if she wakes at night from fear she will be able to fall asleep much faster? I'm just so scared because tonight it supposed to rain and thunder all night and I'm afraid to give a short nap because I know that she will be up at night. It seems impossible to figure out the nap and A length while she wakes from being scared. It would've been much easier to try and cap her nap if she didnt have fearful NWUs (because I don't know of she is up for so long because UT or scarred) and then see what it leads to and go from there.

I think that after 1hr nap she did about 4hra45m A (if I'm not mistaken) but when I give her 1.5hr nap to catch up she needs closer to 6hrs unless she fell asleep at that A time because her day was already long. I tried puting her to bed earlier thinking if she is really OT she will still need an EBT even after a long nap but usually she just takes a long time to fall asleep. 

it does makes sense that you are saying that long nap makes her NWU longer (even if they are from fear) but she needs some way to get her needed sleep and I'm afraid that the only option right now is the nap.

[jessmum46]

Personally I feel from what you've said you/she are losing more sleep by giving the longer nap though?  Yes she may wake if it rains really loud or thunders (though I would have thought heavy rain would be good white noise no?) but if she is appropriately tired it shouldn't take her hours to go back off.  Promoting the most night sleep has to be the better course overall, that's where you're headed once the nap is dropped right?  Am guessing you're not going to keep her napping forever in case of thunderstorms . I guess though if there's a big move coming up soon maybe just follow your gut for now and reevaluate once the move is done?  ((Hugs))

[AMJ]

I know right I would think that it would be nice to sleep to rain white noise but I think what scares her is when the rain changes from light to very heavy. The change in loudness wakes her. To be honest I wake up to from that but I am able to go back to sleep.

Ok I'll try capping it then for few days. I'll be brave thanks so much

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Holding your hand. Be brave! 

[AMJ]

Thank you

I just have to say this... I think both of you ladies are right. We both are loosing sleep from long nap. Yesterday I felt like I needed to give her a 1.5hr nap but by the time she fell asleep it was too late so I gave her 1hr. She had a 10hrs50m night. She had trouble falling asleep because it was raining and thunder ( we talked about and and thunder a lot before bt) but she managed to fall asleep in 30m! And slept through the night of rain and thunder! I think being able to fall asleep when it rained and thundered was helpful for her to.

Today it looks like is going to be a NND again just like last time after a great night. But I wonder if I would've offered her nap today at a much later time maybe she would've taken it?? She does about 6:45/7hrs of A (6.5 if really tired) so today I planned for about 7hrs15m so she is a bit more time but she is still chatting. Maybe next time I should just offer a nap at 8hrs of A and forget a set nap time.

P.S.Yep NND it is!

[jessmum46]

Good luck! Glad you got a good night x

[AMJ]

yeyey another 11hr night after a NND!!!! She took about 1 hr to settle for BT yesterday but was asleep at 6:20pm which made her day 12hrs and slept till 5:25am. But now I'm not sure what to do to bring her BT back to7/7:30-pm? Would you just keep the nap at the same time(around 1/1:15) and keep it 1hr or 45m long? and then 7pm BT?

and I hope she takes the nap today
thanks

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Yay for two good nights! I'd offer a nap, but keep it short. Maybe up to 45 minutes at 1ish? I wouldn't go over 45 minutes  (actually personally I'd do 30), cos if you want 11hrs at night you can't afford to give away too much in the day. Actually, this might be a good time to try and reset her body clock and stick with a capped nap at 1ish and BT at 7.15 / 7.30 for a week, no matter what she does.  What do you think?

Just for comparison btw, Jack is about 6 weeks older than your LO, from memory, and he's reached the point where any nap takes away from his night now, so I'm not offering naps any more. He's 26.5 months and my daughter stopped at around 27 months I think.

[AMJ]

yes I agree. And I think 45m nap probably is better instead of 30m today just because her day will end up 13.5hrs long at least (if 7pm BT)because of 5:25am WU. But I don't think she will last till 7:15/30pm (that would make her day 14hrs). Last time she did only 4hrs45m of last A after 1hr nap.

TBH I would like to see how she does today and tomorrow first and then set her nap and BT. If she manages to have another 11hr night tonight that would bring her WU till 6am for tomorrow and then I can cap her nap at 30m and make her day 13hrs instead of 13.5hrs so BT would be 7pm.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Sounds good Hope you get a good night tonight.

[AMJ]

Yesterday She was pretty tired before the nap and took 30m to fall asleep which made it 1:30pm. I woke her up at 2:15 but she couldn't open her eyes and wasn't tesponding at all so I left the door open to her room and gave her till 2:30. She didn't even move while I was making noises right by home room. She had really hard time staying up during the last A as well. Rubbing her eyes, yawning, starring into nowhere, she was very irritable. By the time we made it home I was able to get her in the crib at 6pm but she fell asleep at 7pm. She had a very short 40m NWU at 3:55am and then up for the day at 6:15am.

So I guess that after a NND she needs a longer nap? But how long? Where your kids able to do a regular capped nap after a NND? When did they needed a catch up nap and how long was it? Thanks

[LovelyLilyandJack]

To be honest my memory is a little hazy cos J started nnds at about 18 months and with various things like teething and colds since then it feels like we've done a bit of everything!  But I did start with offering an uncapped nap after a nnd I think, though J has never napped for long - rarely over 1hr 20 - so I did it knowing we wouldn't get mammoth naps.

You could try an earlier nap after NNDs, so she can nap longer but still have a decent A til bed? Maybe pd at 12.30 so she's asleep by 1, if you think she'll do it?  Then let her have up to 1hr 30 if it felt like 1hr wasn't enough. If that gives you a worse night then you'll know to go back to a capped nap next time at least. And I'd only offer one catch up day and then go back to capping...

[AMJ]

I agree I think 1.5hr tops after NND because she might actually have a mammoth nap, like you said lol!

Today she seems in better spirits even after a NWU compared to yesterday's 11hr night that happened after a NND.

Thanks so much!!!