He never seems to completely konk out!

[*foxy*]

Hi. Thanks for your posts. Good to know it's filling some other mums who's lo's are on neocate said they thought it wasn't. Today he's had 75% neocate to 25% oatly. We have vanilla extract too - I add some to his omeprazole! Otherwise he won't swallow it.

He's been up and down with solids the last couple of weeks due to teething and colds etc. He has a combination of purées and finger foods. He's likes feeding himself but hasn't got any teeth yet so struggles to actually eat anything properly - its more sucking really.

He wakes about every 1.5 hours atm. Im still BFing during the night but not during the day. I was hoping he'd start doing longer stretches at night so I could drop BFing during the night. I can have it all prepared to make up a bottle during the night but not every 1.5 hours!

[*Liz*]

How much is in his daytime bottles???

You may have to proactively drop the night feeds - he may wake for love of them if he isn't having any in the day  . Are you weaning completely to start work??

[*foxy*]

Hi Liz. Sorry, I didn't realise you'd posted. I make up 2 6oz bottles during the day - it's all Neocate now. And an 8oz bottle at BT. He's having a lot more now. Im weaning for a few reasons really - going back to work, the awful nights (is he still reacting to something in my milk??), so that someone else can feed him, had enough of df diet (selfish but I have, I'd like my body back)

We had 2 okish nights during the weekend - I don't know why!?! He only woke 4 times. On both days he had a later pm nap as I wasn't restricted by the school run. So he napped from around 3.15-4.15. I just can't do that during the week though as I have to leave to pick up dd at 3. And DS wouldn't nap with all that noise at the school. His morning nap is 9.30 ish until 10.45/11.

Last night was awful again. He just wouldn't settle and was up at 5. His pm nap was 2-2.45 so it was short. BT was 6.40 so maybe OT? He had a soya pudding for tea but he's had then before and seemed fine. He had calpol before bed.

I was really hoping we'd turned a corner   Im so fed up of being this exhausted. Work is going to be such a struggle if it carries on like this

[katie80]

(((Hugs))), Kate.  Any chance of getting some help picking up DD from school for a week or two, so you can get his routine going before you go back to work? I'm assuming that won't be an issue once you do go, as he'll be at a nursery?

Otherwise, would you like to post what the school runs look like for you? Maybe we can come up with a routine that could work around them...

[*foxy*]

Hi Katie. I can't get anyone to do school pick up every day unfortunately. I'll be working 2 days a week. One day he's with his grandparents so that will be fine and the other day win a childminder - who will be doing the school run so she can pick up dd.

The school runs are: am - leave at 8.30ish back at 9ish.
                               pm - leave at 3 back at 3.30ish

Today he was so tired that he fell asleep on the way to school in the pushchair (8.50am) woke at 9.20 back to sleep at 9.40 woke at 10.15, straight back to sleep until 11.25.

He fell asleep again in his pushchair 3-3.30. I was hoping for a longer nap but it wasn't to be. He was up at 5am so I was thinking EBT? 6pm? Or earlier?

[*Liz*]

How many times did you feed him overnight when he woke up?

I think you will have no choice but to accept that it will always be a haphazard pm nap, and focus on getting a nice long am nap. Once that nap starts at 10.30/11 ish then the pm CN would be after the school run anyway.

I think we ideally need to fix the nights to improve the day rather than expect the routine to fix the nights. Once you are well into weaning the BF it might be worth doing bottles at night to see what effect that has  . It was pretty dramatic for both my older 2. DS1 started to sleep 7 - 4pm on a bottle, and then to 6/7 after a quick feed. He would have been awake by 9pm before  . DD was waking every 3hrs for a feed and once on a bottle STTN within days. I think chronic tiredness was having a very negative effect on my milk by then  .

[*foxy*]

I think I fed him around 4 times during the night. Sometimes I don't remember exactly as he ends up next to me so I don't properly wake up. It's usually around 4 times I think - never less!

How long would a good am nap be? Just wondering what to aim for.

He's had 6oz of just Neocate (no longer adding oat milk) at BT (6.40) But woke at 8.30 and wanted a feed - had to bf as didn't have a bottle ready. I'm not BFing at all during the day so I can try bottle feeding at night too to see if that helps.

[*Liz*]

I wonder if it is worth a go  .

[katie80]

I think you will have no choice but to accept that it will always be a haphazard pm nap, and focus on getting a nice long am nap. Once that nap starts at 10.30/11 ish then the pm CN would be after the school run anyway.

Yes, I was thinking this too.  When there are school runs involved, you just can't help it being messy for awhile.  Until you get the first nap pushed out, even a 2-3pm nap would likely get him to a 6:30pm bedtime at this age. .

Could you do something like this...
WU 6/6:30am
Nap 1 9:30-11am
Nap 2 2-3pm
BT 6:30pm

Or, start pushing the morning nap...
WU 6:30am
Nap 1 10-11:30/12
Nap 2 3:30-4 (might be OT from long A time, but that's ok)
BT 6:30pm

He's had 6oz of just Neocate (no longer adding oat milk) at BT (6.40) But woke at 8.30 and wanted a feed - had to bf as didn't have a bottle ready.

I think it's worth trying the bottles at night as well, but surely he wasn't hungry at that time. I've ended up with NFs for longer than I wanted with both my DSs as well (still have a couple with DS2 ), but I think a good way to start working on settling them is to start at those early wake-ups and then keep pushing it later.  If you're persistent in settling the 8/9/10pm wakes, they seem to get the idea a bit and then it becomes easier to settle the later you get. I also think it's easier to be persistent before going to bed yourself, so that's another reason to start then. What do you think?

[*Liz*]

Valid point - he couldn't have been hungry 2hrs after 6oz formula. He wanted a BF  .

[*foxy*]

I completely agree. He's not hungry, he just wants to bf. Should he last say 6.30pm - midnight? After having a bottle I mean. Then I'll offer another bottle? I will definitely try starting with settling for that first wake up - no bf!

That first routine you posted Katie is pretty much what we're doing atm so I'll stick to that for now and work on the nights.

[*Liz*]

I would say at least 4hrs to start, then offer a bottle.

Will be interesting to see what he takes in oz at that point.

In theory that is DF time as well.

I think he will stop waking pretty fast once you get through this  .

[katie80]

^^^ I agree... I'd start at 4hr, then after a few days or a week move to 6, then 8, etc. If you get lucky, he might do it on his own without the BF. Holding your hand!

[*foxy*]

Thanks so much Liz and Katie. I really need the support atm! I'll be staying strong!!

[katie80]

(((Hugs))), hon... weaning extra BFs at night is never easy (have had to do it with both boys and still not all the way there with the baby ), but keep reminding yourself how good the long stretches of sleep that are in your future will feel.