Help still struggling - 8 months old now

[newkidontheblock]

Progress! Hurrah! Good that he is getting to catch up on OT.
What we are doing here is capping the second nap at 1 hour but that is mainly to leave enough time till bed. Does he need such a long A till bed? Whenever we get EWs, it is OT. Do you think that is why he WU so early? It would explain how you were able to resettle him. In which case, bed a bit earlier would help.

[Martini~]

Just popping in!

He slept more during day, he had two restorative naps and still he slept full night. This somehow confirms the OT theory girls had which I agree with.
So... You probably won't get two full naps every day but could you go with much earlier BT when you have one long-one short A? So even 2,5h after last nap? I have to say that my DS is going up to 5h in the morning but if I do a short catnap at 4pm, he can easily go down at 7pm even after 2,5h A. I think it's not A time but just "end of the day" for him and around 7pm he is just sleepy little buba:).
So if you have long/short nap pattern I would go for 12h day as max or even would try 11,5h to see if that helps. WDYT?

[jakobsmom]

Thanks for the thoughts.  I took DS into his room at 730 to try and do an earlier BT and it did not work.  This LO seems to need a longer A to bed after a good nap.  We were in his room for almost an hour and a half before he settled.  Totally agree about OT and am very thankful for a bit of sleep!

Martii we were capping the pm nap at 30-45 minutes and DS was waking up almost every hour after early BT and sometimes woyld be up for over an hour until he would finally resettle.  We tried the capped nap then 2.5 to bed but he would wake up within 45 to 120 mintues later then was up forever before we could resettle.  And then multiple NWs.  This is why I am so lost with this guy.  And TBH DS1 goes to bed at around 730 asleep for 8 and atouch later BT for DS2 works better for everyone.  DS1 is very loud and we live in a bungalow, when DS2 has EBT I feel like a horrible mom because all I do is get frustrated with DS1 and keep asking him to be quiet.

We had similar issues with DS1, but it was easier to tweak his routine since he was our only LO.

I agree with the OT thats why I stopped capping the naps.  At night it was like he could never get into a restful sleep.

Ugh so confused.

[newkidontheblock]

One more thought -- I still think the BT resistance might be OT. Is DH around at that time? Next time, try parent switch. When DD is very OT at BT, it takes ages for me to settle her - she will keep crying or settle-WU-settle-WU -- then we switch and she snaps out of it. It works the other way around also when DH can't settle her.

The reason I am saying this is, DD and L seem similar in their sleep needs and I have noticed this happening with her. Day Before with A of 3.50 -- 1.20 am nap followed by 30 minutes pm nap ending at 4.30. I aimed for BT at 6.30 - 2 hours seemed fine. But nope-- very OT and needed help. Yesterday am nap of 3 hours, 30 min CN ending at 6, BT at 7.30 - slept off so happily. Today again, WU - 7.30, am nap of 1.5, CN 30 mins ending at 5, BT 6.30 - no issues (yet)

So, yes, completely agree with Marta, that the resistance is probably due to him already being over tired by that point rather than UT. You mention that after capping the nap he would WU soon after BT, that usually means OT.

You can of course push BT to 7.30. In fact Tracy even recommends a 7.30 - 7.30 sleep cycle (I think) Totally agree with Marta about the 'end of the day'. In fact, I remember talking about this in the BC. That as long as she is rested enough, she will switch off at that time because it isn't just the A before bed but rather accumulated tiredness of the day.

FX that the good nights continue!

[jakobsmom]

Thanks Fleur.  Im not completely convinced the issue last night was him being OT.  He had an am nap of 1.45 and a pm nap of 1.5.  I do think that I missed his window though with him being silly, but he was not at all ready for bec at the 2.5-3 hour mark.  He also went down great for both of his naps.  The funny thing with this guy is I do early BT after capping his pm nap and he goes to bed easy but then is awake 45-60 minutes later.  And then has a LONG NW bevore he finally settles and then the consecutive NWs start.  I think in those situations he is UT at bed then gets OT with the long NW.

[Martini~]

If that suits both you and him Hon I would go for it. It makes me realize that some LOs just don't like capping naps, YK:)? Like when you are later in 1:0 transition some will have a 2h nap until the very last moment and just shorten nights and switch to no nap cold turkey? So maybe your little L is similar and should continue with two uncapped naps and maybe nights shorten to min 10h and when you are there do a cold turkey switch to one nap? Btw it's what's Tracy suggests if I am right. She says LOs nap at 9:30 after 7am WU until 2:1 transition!

[jakobsmom]

Thank you so much for the support!  It has been such a struggle with this LO and Ive been afraid I have been reading him all wrong - trying to put him in the same box as his brother so to speak.  I had a bad evening myself - just blaming myself and getting upset that I cant figure out my own baby.  Once I settled down a bit I thought maybe I am going about this all wrong.  So will give this new approach a try and pray that I have found something that works for him.

[Martini~]

Keeping fingers crossed for you and keep us posted:)!

[jessmum46]

Thinking of you and hope the good night was repeated x

[athenasmom]

Kristen - EBT does not work for us either. We would also get an NW about 45 min after BT which would take about 45 min to 1 hour to settle, so we have abandoned EBT as well. I'd rather do a short CN if it seems that DD cannot handle the A time until BT but would keep her BT between 7:30 and 8:00. For us that seems to bring the best night sleep. Later than that and she will have OT wakings, earlier than that and she will have UT a waking. Luckily she does not do the multiple NW's though. I'd say if you find the right BT that works for you then stick with it. Also, it would make life much easier for you if you could put both kids down at the same time. I would shoot for the later bedtime no problem. You might have to keep it for a few weeks though before he gets used to it and you start to see some results. 

[jakobsmom]

Thanks Suzanna,
On a day when naps didnt add up would you do a 15-20 minute cat nap to get to BT?

Thanks for the help

[athenasmom]

I look at the baby and if I think she needs a CN until BT then I would do one not more than 30 min though. I would APOP if neccessary to keep the BT. As I said EBT does not work for us too well. 

[jakobsmom]

Thanks, he refused the CN so we abandoned it.  Going to be a long A until bed will see how he does.  He had a 140 nap this afternoon though so hopefully enough to get him to bed.

[athenasmom]

LOL just after I posted I had to make the same choice ... DD woke from her 45 min 2nd nap at 4:15 and was ready to sleep at 6:15. I could have opted to keep her up a bit and then put her down at 7 but I knew that would end up in an NW 45 min after BT. So I popped her into the sling and went for a walk with DS who wanted to go out to fly his helicopter  So it worked out well. She took a 15 min CN then had solids then bath BT bottle and bed by 7:50. BT wad a bit rough as she needed some help to settle but has been sleeping since.
How did your BT go? Did L get very OT?

[Martini~]

Here also CN was a godsend. We were doing 3 naps up to 8mo as they were all short and it didn't affect his nights. I never went for EBT as it never worked for us in the early months.
However it depends on a kid - mine rarely fights BT, we do it at 7pm for ages and even if his CN was at 4:30 he will go down at 7pm. However I adjust the length (sometimes it's hit & miss) and do notes anything more than 45min.