Author Topic: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED  (Read 4863 times)

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Offline jnduff

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NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« on: January 14, 2015, 13:01:50 pm »
My LO is 11 months old.  We have been dealing with NW for a while now but the problem in the last month is that it is taking 1-2 hours to resettle to sleep.  I am at a loss as to OT, UT, early bedtime and on and on.  I think that my exhaustion hasn't helped for clarity.  I feel like I have been working my butt off trying to get him to be a good little sleeper but nothing seems to work.  I used BW with my older two and even though we struggled, we made it though and now I have two really good sleepers.  I am freaking out that this little guy will ALWAYS be a bad sleeper.

He is a run down of his schedule, it isn't always this easy as he is between home and an in home daycare.
5:30 wake-up and eat - (just transitioned from breast feeding to exclusively formula)
7:30-8:00 breakfast and bottle formula
9:00-10:15 morning nap (at daycare)
11:30-12:00 Lunch
12:50 bottle of formula
1:15 - 3:15 afternoon nap (depending on day - can be shorter or longer)
4:15 snack
5:30-6:00 dinner
6:15 bath and start bedtime routine
6:30 bottle
6:45 read story, rock and put to bed

I do need to mention that he doesn't do well with cutting teeth and just recently he popped another tooth.  Also, in the last month we have moved to a new house.  The last two nights he is going to bed and crying and upset, where as before we could lay him down drowsy but awake and not hear a peep until the early morning hours.

The night has been going as follows...usually up anywhere from 1 - 3 am. Last night it was 1:30am and it took us until 3:00am to get him back to sleep.  I used a combination of PUPD, WIWO, hand on his body.  Then it was as if he was so wide awake that I rocked him until he was drowsy but awake and was able to lay him down.  He was quiet for about 20 minutes and then started crying and screaming.  Due to him being so worked up I picked him up and it was like he wasn't even tired.  He goes from being drowsy to wide awake and talking etc. 

My husband works nights so I don't him there every night for moral support.  I am sure that I have started some bad habits as I have been doing whatever I can to get through.  However I know that he isn't getting good sleep and neither his mama!  I have started to feel like maybe he is one of those kids who only needs 8 hours of sleep - which seems ridiculous for an 11 month old baby.  People keep telling me that he goes to bed too early but I am not comfortable with him going to bed later and getting over tired.

Offline jessmum46

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2015, 13:24:06 pm »
A couple of things jump out at me - first that is a very early time to have a long(ish) morning nap at 11months and is almost certainly why you are up for the day at 5.30am.  Some babies will keep an early nap without it causing early starts but they would usually only be having 20-30 mins or so as a catnap.  Does it have to be at that time at the daycare?  Could they push it later and/or cap it shorter?

Secondly, I then think he may well be UT at bedtime even if overall he is showing signs of overtiredness.  On days he has a 2h afternoon nap then 3.5h A isn't that long afterwards especially with other A times only being 3-3.5h.  We get UT NWs here on that sort of routine and DS is only 7 months!  Often LOs need at least one long A time in the day to get them properly tired to sleep well. 

If you have the flexibility to do so, my suggestion would be to push and shorten the morning nap which will hopefully improve WU time, and push bt to 7/7.15pm to allow longer A time after the long afternoon nap. 

Offline jnduff

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2015, 13:55:48 pm »
Thank you for replying!  The morning nap is at daycare and she does like him to go down about 9 but I can have her cap it for sure to help out the night time.  How long should she cap it?  One hour or like 45 minutes???  She likes him to nap around 9 so that he is up with time to tire him out for afternoon nap.

I can easily push his bedtime to 7 or 7:15...I guess I just kept going earlier since I thought he was OT, not UT.  I do know that the last two nights when he has fussed about going to bed it was like he wanted to play and crawl now making me realize he was probably UT.  He will clearly enjoy a longer A time after dinner before bed and it won't be so rushed for us as parents!  Hopefully a win win.

I feel a bit of hope now that you have pointed some things out...I just have been at a loss lately.  Thanks a million!  Can't wait to try!

Offline jessmum46

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2015, 14:18:26 pm »
I would do it slowly but I would have thought you'd want to aim to get down to something very short to improve that early start.  For comparison for quite some time now my 7mo has been doing 45 mins at 9am and then a longer nap around 1/1.15pm.  The 45 mins is now getting too long I think for a decent afternoon nap so I am steeling myself to cut it shorter!

If she jumps straight to a short nap he will likely be very tired for his afternoon nap to begin with and may need that one bringing earlier.  However as he gets used to the shorter am nap and hopefully WU time improves, it can probably push back out again.  The other thing to watch for is that as WU time gets later he may end up refusing the nap at 9am.  DS had (for him) a pretty good night last night and refused his am nap until 9.30am from a 6.45am WU.  This age can be messy for sleep anyway as many LOs start the 2-1.  I would say you're in the process already really as LO taking two good naps but waking early is a fairly classic way for it to begin.


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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2015, 14:31:14 pm »
OK - makes sense.  She will be capping his nap today to an hour - from 9-10. Since he goes down by 1 that is really only 3 - 3 1/2 hour A time.  I will keep an eye on his wake up time as we transition through this process.  I am hopeful that I start to see some positive change.  I am sure today he will be tired since capping the nap...she was capping his nap by 10:15 or 10:30 anyway...so he was only getting an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and a half at best.  I am ready to try ANYTHING!

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2015, 15:03:51 pm »
Good luck!

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2015, 16:29:59 pm »
IT WORKED!!!  I am beyond thrilled.  He went to bed around 7:15pm and got up this morning at 5:20am.  He was still up a bit too early but after sleeping ALL night I am thrilled.  We will now start working on capping the afternoon nap so that we can hopefully get a bit of a later wake up time.  Thanks again for your insight.

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2015, 18:55:12 pm »
Great news!!!

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2015, 14:43:45 pm »
Ok...now that nights are going well he is still waking at 5 am or 515... Despite being much happier when he wakes I feel like I should get him to go until 6 or so.  Could it be possible that he is just one of those who needs less sleep or is it the morning nap? I have capped it to an hour in the morning...he can't go later than 9 am since he is getting up at 5.
Does  the time he goes to bed affect his wake up time?  Should I push him to 730 bedtime in hopes he will sleep a bit later?? Any suggestions?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2015, 18:56:04 pm »
I think the morning nap may still be too early and too long.  Can you push it very slowly forwards and wake at same time, so 9.05-10, then 9.10-10 etc?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2015, 19:51:05 pm »
I can try that.  It gets hard at daycare during the week as I think she wants him to sleep from 9-10 or so...that way he is ready for afternoon nap by 1 pm.  I think ideally he should go down by about 915 and still get up by 10, just a 45 minute catnap...soon enough he will be transitioning to one nap a day, right?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2015, 20:14:15 pm »
Hi Sweetie! Just popping as I also have a LO, 11 mo and going to nursery:)!

Firstly that's great that he sleeps so well there, believe me not every LO does it:). Secondly you're right that he will be transitioning to one nap. I agree with every suggestion of Katherine here, but had a thought that maybe you could to a carer how she transitions kids to one nap? I mean I get that she likes kiddos to go to sleep together at 1pm but keeping and 1h nap is not a solution for ever so maybe he has her way of transitioning and that would help both of you?

At that age I personally think that 1pm could be his first nap already however his day would would have to be 8-8 rather than 6-6. If he is not ready for one nap, you could do a short CN in the afternoon when doing pick up or so. WDYT? Would 8-8 routine suit you and your family?
~Marta

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2015, 14:37:26 pm »
I don't think 8-8 would work as he is usually at daycare by 7:30 or so.  The 6-6 works better just because of when I need to get to work.  I am working on his morning nap from about 9:05 to 10 and really just trying to get him to do a 45 minute nap or so.  I have to say now that he is sleeping through the night I will gladly deal with him getting up early.  I do feed him and then lay him back down for him to talk and babble while I shower and get ready...I am just so thankful for the help and that I got him sleeping though the night with such a simple tweak of his schedule.  I will ask daycare how she transitions to one nap and see if we can figure something out.  Ideally the one nap doesn't happen until about 18 months, right??

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2015, 14:41:07 pm »
It really depends on kiddos, their sleep needs and also the length of night you wanna have. My DS is 11mo and is average/low sleep needs but also always needed loooong A to have a decent nap. So we are transitioning to one nap just now as if I don't push him he wil do only 2x45min nap during day and is exhausted by BT.
But generally I agree, until you are fine with his WU and BT and he STTN, I would go for two naps as long as possible!
~Marta

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2015, 12:58:44 pm »
OK so new issue - waking up at 4:15 am or 4:30 am.  The last tweak to his schedule worked so I am hopeful that there is something I can do to help this situation.  I have capped his morning nap to an hour - yesterday his morning nap was about 45 minutes from 9:15-10:00 (or just before).  Likewise I have capped his afternoon nap to right around 2 hours but the last two days it has been drastically shorter than that.  Yesterday it was from 1:30 - 2:50.  I know that he is cutting some teeth right now so I am hoping that is the problem.  Ideally what should his day look like with naps and amount of sleep?  Currently he is going to be about 7:15pm.  Last night he did wake about 9:35pm and I am thinking that was teeth...also he woke again sometime in the middle of the night but was easy to resettle both times.

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2015, 13:20:43 pm »
This may be useful.....though bear in mind it is just a guide: Typical Amounts of Day and Night Sleep

Have you been able to resettle at 4/4.30?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2015, 19:38:05 pm »
I am able to resettle but its been taking a while.  I usually pick him up - as other methods typically have NEVER worked.  Lately I give him a bottle and he will usually go back to sleep for a bit longer while I get ready for work etc.  So his sleep is all messed up again.  Because he is now going to sleep from 5 or 530 and then I wake him at 6:45 or so.  He goes to daycare and sleeps an hour in the morning (typically from 9-10 - since I have asked her to cap his morning nap) and then sleeps in the afternoon from 1-2:30 or so.  I am just all over the place I know and understand that the EW and me rocking him and giving a bottle are not helping.  I have been desperate just to get him back to sleep.  I do think we are also dealing with teething issue too.  Likewise, I know that he is nearing 1 year old and I will probably stop the bottle with formula and just do a cup.  Now I am rambling...sorry.

After looking at the link you shared.  He is FOR SURE doing one nap at an hour and one nap at 1 hour 15 minutes or 1 hour 30 minutes...that is fine.  BUT he is NOT sleeping 11.5 hours straight.  He is sleeping from 7:15pm bedtime, waking at 4 or 4:15 and then back to sleep around 5:30 or so until I wake him at 6:45.  How do I get him to stop waking so darn early.  I feel like he is constantly OT...he is doing a long stretch in the afternoon which should make him tired out for night time but then habit of getting up at 4:15.

HELP!! This mama is tired!

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2015, 19:49:30 pm »
I wonder if you need to pull in bedtime slightly earlier for a bit?  He's cut down on day sleep fairly quickly and may just need a few early nights to catch up.  What's his mood like/what's he doing at those EWs?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2015, 20:08:37 pm »
Oh good point.  I can try to move earlier like 5-10 minutes...maybe try 7:05 or 7:10.

When he wakes at 4:15ish I typically pick him up and rock and he lays there with eyes open and content snuggled in.  Not fighting to get up or anything but awake...not full on drowsy either.  I can lay him down semi awake and he lays there fine (quite dark in his room so not sure if eyes are closed or not) and he will stay quiet for about 10-20 minutes before he starts crying out again.  Then I have found myself repeating the process...eventually I give a bottle at 5:00 or so.  A few times I have just jumped to the bottle at 4 am.  But definitely content and awake.  One day in the last few he did sleep until almost 6am...not sure what I did differently that day.


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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2015, 09:29:22 am »
If he's not all-out screaming and crying, what happens if you just ignore him?  I wonder if picking up and rocking and eventually giving a bottle may be doing more harm than good?  He may hold out for the bottle if he thinks it may come....if he's an independent sleeper I would leave him to it to be honest, unless it's an 'I need you' cry in which case maybe just sit with him, reassure with soft words/shh so he knows he's not alone but try not to help to much.  I've sat with my DS an hour and a half before and he has eventually settled himself, any efforts on my part to 'help' generally haven't speeded up the process.  If you genuinely think hunger could be an issue I would feed immediately, but if he doesn't settle back instantly that probably isn't the reason he's woken so then I would probably cut the feed all together.  What do you think?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2015, 13:05:16 pm »
Yeah I have thought of that.  That I am doing too much.  I know that he really struggles with getting teeth and we are in the process of getting them or they are coming!  Last night was a totally different situation.  He was up from about 11:30-1 and then woke again at 2.  This was a full on screaming I need you type cry.  I have tweaked his naps and bedtime and just when we get a good few days something happens and we are back to the beginning.  I need to make contact with my daycare provider today to see how his naps went yesterday since he was up last night.  I am really worried that we will get into a cycle of OT if I don't work on nipping it in the bud now.  Typically he is a really big eater so early in the morning it could be hunger.  Yesterday morning when he woke I did give him a bottle and he was back out pretty quick making me think yesterday was hunger for sure.  Most days though I am feeling like he just needs to resettle himself and I feel too he is waking out of habit.  We have tried to leave him to resettle and it seems to escalate to an I need you cry, not the other way.  I feel like I am trying to get him on track and he is resisting. The baby whisperer has always worked for my older two but I am just not sure at this point what to do.  I am overwhelmed, and tired, but I know that he is not getting the sound sleep he needs.

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2015, 13:16:54 pm »
Hugs, my DS is a tricky one too :-* if it's always 4.15am have you thought of giving wake to sleep a go?  Though for us a waking 9h after BT is often OT so if you can pull BT earlier still, 15-30 mins that may help x

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2015, 14:39:12 pm »
Thank you for the support!  I have not tried wake to sleep.  I am not exactly sure on the exact technique of it either.  OH...BT could still be the problem?  I was thinking that pulling his bedtime in by 5-10 minutes max would be better?  Didn't know I should go further yet.  OK..Do you think I am trying to adjust too much at a time?  I talked to daycare and his naps are capped and he is not over sleeping the day away causing him to not be tired at night.  How long should he be awake from the last nap to bedtime.  He typically naps from 1:15-3:15ish...sometimes its a little different one way or the other. Sleeps about 45 minutes in the morning around 9 to about 9:45...this morning it was 8:45 because of the crappy night.

How the heck do I get on track???  My daycare provider thinks he should go to bed later rather than earlier....I am so lost and confused on which way to go with him.

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2015, 15:22:48 pm »
Oh Honey, don't worry. It's a golden rule of a lot of people which I know , magical "put him down later". Yes I guess if you put him down at 10pm he will do a crash down night with 9h of sleep and be up at 7am, but that's not the solution you are looking for. Moreover some kiddos pushed to the boundaries start to wake even more often.

I think that you have to look for the balance you like. I general at this age I guess nights should be 11-12h depending on your LO's sleep needs.
I would also go for an earlier BT. So usually he was up at 6am and went down at 8pm? If yes, if he wakes 2h earlier in the morning I would go for at least 1-1,5h earlier BT. He may recover and sleep nicely till 5/6am so you can than gradually put him down at BT later. WDYT?
~Marta

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2015, 16:50:17 pm »
He is definitely not getting that much sleep!  He is sleeping about 45 minutes in the morning and about a 2 hour nap in the afternoon.  My gut tells me that if I were to put him to bed later like 8pm or later he will start to wake more often plus I tried that tactic with my other two and it never worked...always put them to bed earlier and they would sleep more sound and longer.  I think that he may not need as much as the 11-12 hours but he does need more than he is getting.  I fear that we are in a cycle of OT. 

I am going to try the earlier bedtime and see what happens.  He was up at 5-6 and would be going to bed around 6:45...then I moved it to sort of tire him out and started capping the naps and putting him to bed around 7:15...we would go into his room about 7:05 and rock and sing and he would go down drowsy but awake. Wondering if I moved too drastically and rushed to the later bedtime when I should have gone at smaller amounts at a time. Ideally I would be fine with him getting up at 6 or 6:30 but when he is up at 4:15 and then I try to resettle and back to sleep it may take all the way until 5:45 or 6am and then I have to wake him by 6:45 anyways.  I am not sure where to go for BT at this point.  He gets up from his afternoon nap at 3:15 or 3:20 so I was thinking that by 7:15 he would be tired out and ready for bed.  However, if he has low sleep needs then quite possibly he may go down later...but when I put him to bed he is content, quiet and puts himself to sleep within 5 minutes. 

So should his bedtime be 6:15???  Seems like that is too early? 

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2015, 19:15:11 pm »
My feeling is that morning nap is still too early and too long for 11 months  :-\. DS is having 30-35 mins and not quite 8 months yet.  I think if he's having that long in the morning, then a long nap fairly late on the afternoon then yes a 6.15 BT will be too early (he'll be UT because of the late nap) but then a 7/7.30pm BT will be too late because it's been such a long day.  I would probably be thinking of cutting the morning nap more, bringing the long afternoon nap earlier so that you can bring BT earlier without him being UT.  What do you think Marta?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2015, 19:39:16 pm »
I am wondering how exactly to get on track.  We had a really bad night last night so he has probably been OT today at daycare.  If he got up today from nap at 3:15 or so how long do I keep him up tonight to get started?  If I go later then I feel like I risk OT, but if I go earlier I feel like I risk UT. 

I can't have him up at 5ish and expect that he will make it to 9:15 or 9:30 and sleep 30 minutes and be okay and not OT....so when and how do I start transitioning?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2015, 19:47:40 pm »
I think this is one of those situations where you need to power through a bit of OT to come out the other side.  Not easy I know, been there (a lot).  But an early nap is probably reinforcing the EW, making it harder for you to push out the day.  If he keeps getting the nap at 9am, there's not any reason for him to wake later if you see what I mean.  It will be tough going I imagine but maybe just try to push him 5 mins more every 2-3 days and shorten his nap by 5 mins until you get to something like 9.30-10am. His afternoon nap may need to come a touch earlier as the morning one shortens. 

Do you think that's possible?

Have you read the 2-1 information on the FAQs?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2015, 19:51:50 pm »
That is definitely possible.  I will work on that in conjunction with his daycare. It is a bit of a struggle to work with daycare on all of this as they like their set schedules etc too...I love my in home daycare provider but at times like this it makes it really difficult.  Suggestions on what to do with BT?  Should I bring in another 15-30 minutes (or not as much) for him to try to get caught up?

I have not read the entire 2-1 information completely.  I will be sure to take a look.

Offline Martini~

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2015, 20:10:26 pm »
I think it depends on the day, but the case with your son is that his second nap is always at 1pm and finish at 3 most of the time, yes? So after 2h of sleep he may be not interested in early BT. So I would go for normal 7:15 BT, and try earlier one when his second nap was short (you posted that he was cutting in this nap for couple of days)?

Generally what your nursery works for (2:45) sleep per day in my opinion is slightly too much for this age. I know that many LOs are on two naps until 12-18mo but usually these naps sum up to around 2h max. So if you manage to get back on track I would ask nursery to put him down a tad later (15min) and then cap at 30' mark. Would that work for you?

--> wrote it down 2h ago but forgot to post:) and now I are that Katherine advices the same:)))
~Marta

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2015, 01:09:25 am »
That would definitely work for me I just need to get daycare on same page.  Ideally I think he would benefit by going down around 9:30 -10 and then from 1-2:30ish...then he would be around that 2 hour max per day.  I agree pushing through the OT will be worth it.  I just need to get his morning nap later so things can start working themselves out...I will see if she can push his nap 5 minutes or so a day until we get to the desired time. Thank you so much for the guidance and support...a definite livesafer and network of support when it seems like I'm losing my mind! A million thanks for listening.

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2015, 14:15:38 pm »
Well I ended up having an unexpected day off today which works out well for me to start moving the morning nap.  He woke up at 5 and I ended up getting him back to sleep by 6 am and woke him at 6:45/6:50. I thought this would help me to get him to go until later. So here it is 9:15 and he is playing And not too fussy.  My plan is to go start winding down in the next 5-10 minutes. I plan on capping the morning nap at 30 to 45 minutes but I need to cap the afternoon too, right?? 

So total daytime sleep should be only 2 hours between the two naps?? Am I cutting too much all at once? Also should I keep bedtime the same at 7:15?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2015, 14:17:58 pm »
I don't think 2.5h total sleep is unreasonable at this age for some LOs, I would probably allow up to 2h for the second nap for now if you are capping the morning one to 30 mins.  After a few days you should be able to see if something needs shortening more x

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2015, 15:27:54 pm »
Well I am happy to report that my LO is doing pretty good.  He is now waking anywhere from 5:15 to 6am.  Typically it has been 5:15 or so.  Way better than the 4am wake up call!  I am just feeling bad that I have to wake him up from his morning nap.  He gets so so tired and looks so content snuggled in sleeping.  He has been doing about a 45 minute morning nap and around 9:30 and then about an hour 15 minutes in the afternoon.  It is hard because he has to make a long stretch of A time in the morning and another long A stretch in the afternoon to get to bedtime.  Yesterday it was close to 4+ hours.  I know that he has been a bit OT lately and grouchy but pushing through for the sake of the end result. 

Does this sound about right?  I feel bad like I am making him upset but he is sleeping through from 7:15pm - 5:15am.

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2015, 15:39:00 pm »
I'm really glad things are going in the right direction for you :)

So a couple of ideas - though I'm not quite sure when your afternoon nap is happening?  You could keep the 45 minute morning nap but then push your afternoon nap a touch later to see if you can get a longer one and shorten the stretch to bedtime.  Or you could slowly continue to push and shorten your morning nap which may have the same effect of lengthening the afternoon one.  So 9.35-10.15, then 9.40-10.15 etc etc

What do you think?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2015, 16:01:15 pm »
I did push the afternoon nap a bit over the weekend since we were home and if it was closer to 1:30 or so he would play and be up until almost 2pm.  He did eventually take a nap, he just seemed to get a second wind and get more active instead of calming and slowing down.  Typically afternoon nap is happening anywhere from 1 or 1:15....latest would be 1:30 even at daycare and that is few and far between.

I am wondering what will happen today at daycare since he will be more occupied and busy there as opposed to at home.  I am hopeful that he will sleep longer in the afternoon so that he doesn't have such a long stretch. 

I will try to stretch the afternoon nap a little since we are already struggling a little with the morning nap...he is usually ready for morning nap by 8:45 or so by showing signs of being tired etc.  The afternoon he is a bit better and will be easier to stretch him I think.

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2015, 09:33:49 am »
Keep us posted x

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2015, 16:32:53 pm »
Well I am at a loss.  Today he was up at 4am and I got him back to sleep until 5:15ish.  Typically it is just 5:15 or 5:30 that he is waking.  I thought we were on the right track but then today I was discussing him with my daycare provider and now feel unsure.  It has been almost a week since I have moved things around a bit for him.  The last 6 days I have felt that he is OT but thought I should push through to get to the end result. 

Typically nap has been from 9:30-10am and afternoon nap from 1-3.  Yesterday he cried from 11-12 and then was fine until 1pm and napped fine.  Today he napped in the morning from 9-9:45 since he just couldn't make it.  He was just miserable, either with being OT or teeth. She did give him Tylenol and his mood has improved so I am really feeling like teeth are the problem.  My gut just keeps telling he its tired...I am used to my other kids who at the same age seemed to sleep way more and better.  I am trying to stay focused on the end result but the constant crying and fussiness is taking its toll.  Also - feeling like there is something that I am not doing right or something that I could fix or help him with.  It is a struggle for me to accept that he just doesn't need as much sleep.

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2015, 12:53:27 pm »
Well this morning he slept until 6:45 when I woke him up to get ready!  Not sure what I did differently but it was amazing.  He woke up happy and clearly felt like he was much more rested, and then I realized he slept an extra 1 hour and 45 minutes.  That is a lot of time. 

He did go to bed a tad bit later than the usual 7:15...it might have been 7:20 or 7:25.  And the other thing was that he woke up at 3am - I was able to easily calm him and resettle him quickly. SO I am not sure if  that sort of worked like a W2S or what...but it worked.  I am curious if I should do it again to sort of reset his internal clock or anything else it could have been.  Suggestions?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2015, 14:01:24 pm »
That's a really good night, did you get a repeat? 

The 3am waking may have acted a bit like a wake to sleep.  I'm not sure I'd personally be brave enough to try it though! 

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2015, 15:13:53 pm »
I did not get a repeat...I was hoping for one but didn't.  I too think it acted like a W2S...I am not sure I am familiar with it enough to try it again.  But after a 5 am wake up today...on the weekend...I think I might be willing to read up on it and try.  He is exhausted and can hardly make it to the first nap at 9:30...getting better but when he is up at 5 it makes for a long morning.

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2015, 19:09:58 pm »
Ugh I know, those long mornings are hard work :(. This might help - How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2015, 19:48:49 pm »
How do I address waking earlier and earlier...the last two days he has been getting up at 4:15 or 4:30.   I have dealt with EW as well as NW that we have fixed by simply tweaking his naps etc.  I guess my question now is do I go for a later bedtime or do I cap the afternoon nap...or both?

Currently he is napping in the morning from 9:30-10 and in the afternoon from 1-3ish...I am thinking that the afternoon is still a bit long.  Also he as a 4 hour A time in the afternoon from nap to bedtime...but the rest of the day it is 3.5 hours.

Not sure what to tweak and I am not totally ready to drop the morning nap and only go to one nap a day as I don't think that he can make it with one...suggestions?

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2015, 21:55:07 pm »
How old is he now...?
~Marta

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2015, 10:43:27 am »
He turned 1 on February 7.  I really am thinking he wants to transition to one nap a day but unsure if he can make it all day with one nap. He also goes to daycare during the week which my provider will do what I wish but I know she thinks its too early for one nap a day...hoping he will be closer to 18 months.  However, I have realized that if he gets too much during the day he won't sleep good at night.

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2015, 13:27:01 pm »
With a 4.30am start no he won't make it on one nap, but allowing him two naps to catch up is probably fuelling the early starts.  Some LOs do keep 2 naps until 18 months but they are generally very high sleep needs and/or having short nights.  12 months I would say is fairly common, I read somewhere 15 months was average.

My suggestion would be to push out and cap the morning nap shorter - so 9.40/45-10 - for a few days and then if you get a better WU one day (post 6am say) then push him through to one nap at 11.30am or as close as you can get to it and allow to sleep up to 3h, bedtime as early as necessary.  If it's a total mess of a nap then try to get a late afternoon catnap, failing that super early BT.  What do you think?

It doesn't have to be one nap every day, but some one nap days may make him tired enough to sleep in :)

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2015, 16:38:54 pm »
That sounds like it could help.  I think he is a lower sleep needs baby.  And I have noticed that daytime sleep can greatly affect his night time sleep in a negative way.

Yesterday and today I was able to get him back to sleep and then woke him up at 6:45 to get ready for daycare.  So he is clearly still a bit sleepy and not staying awake the entire morning from 4:15 on through.

I may start changing the morning nap and cutting that shorter to help and then it is moving that afternoon nap to be where it needs to be.  It is difficult since I deal with daycare but hopefully she will agree to be on the same page.

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Re: NW that last a few hours - HELP, I'M EXHAUSTED
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2015, 19:34:56 pm »
Good luck and do keep us posted.  You could (if you get him back to sleep and don't wake him) just try jumping into one nap, perhaps at the weekend?