Author Topic: 17 month old sleep problems  (Read 1279 times)

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Offline Silvana Diana

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17 month old sleep problems
« on: January 16, 2015, 09:06:52 am »
Hello all,

I am new here so I hope I am doing the right thing by replying to this post instead of creating a new topic, since we are confronted with a similar problem and, although in theory I know what to do, I have no idea how to actually implement it. I am from Romania (yes, that land far, far away :) and have recently become a fan of Tracy's books and methods, being the mom of a sleepless little girl. But I apologize if I don't know all acronyms or if my English is not perfect. I also apologize because this is going to be a long post, but I want to explain everything clearly and I'm also desperate and overtired so cannot structure my ideas very clearly. Sorry for that.

So as I was saying, we are facing mainly the same problem: our 17 months old daughter wakes up several times a night and needs me to get her back to sleep. ME, not daddy who is very frustrated that he cannot help, but she just won't settle with him. She doesn't even go to sleep or nap with him as long as I'm at home. So I wake up several times a night, go to her room and sometimes lie there on the floor because she wakes up when I try to leave. This is new in a way, since until a couple of months ago I would put her to her crib at night and she would sleep from 9 pm to 7 in the morning with no waking (yes, I stayed with her until she fell asleep so probably this is the root cause). Or she woke up when teething, but this only lasted a couple of days always. Now, it seems this is endless and I am ssssooo tired since it's always me waking up and also putting her to sleep in the evening. And sometimes it takes 40 minutes for her to settle and fall asleep (in the evening, not during the night).

She has always slept less than her age average, for instance her naps are rarely longer than 1.30 hours and has only one daily nap since she turned 1. And even if she sleeps more, after 1h - 1.30 h she wakes up and again I have to go and get her back to sleep. But after having struggled with it for weeks and weeks (with desperate crying and trying for 45 minutes to get her back to sleep after short 20 minutes naps) I decided that this is how much sleep she needs and that's it. It was ok when she slept at night. Or when daddy could get her to sleep, too. But now it's only "mama mama mama" a hundred times a day and a night and it's getting to me, I'm nervous and frustrated all the time and there are moments when I look at the window and think how quiet everything would be if I just threw myself through it. I swear I'm not exaggerating, this is how desperate I am.

In Romania, there is this culture of "slave moms", meaning you should not complain nor try to change your baby's patterns, just bear with him/her "and s/he'll grow out of it" So whenever I complain about how tired or sleepless I am, someone's there to explain me how I should be patient and it'll go away and making me feel weak for not being able to sacrifice myself for my baby. And it's natural for the father not to do anything, for the mums to be everywhere and anywhere and so on. So I'm considered lucky that my husband shares everything equally and silly to complain hat it's still not ok. This is all making me feel even worse, but I know things are not normal that way, not in the 21st century and when you are working full time, just like your husband or just like those parents with grown-up children who are so good at telling me to be patient.

My God, I'm beyond the point! So back to our sleeping ritual: it's quiet play for 15 minutes before bedtime, then a bath or not, we put PJs on, read a few books, drink a bottle of milk (both in my lap while sitting in a bean bag), then we turn off the light, she takes her teddy bear (a baby owl in fact), I hold her a bit then she wants to lie in the crib. And I lie on the carpet beside her crib and then it starts: she swivels in all directions, she puts her legs through the bars, throws the owl at me, reaches for my hand, cries "sleepy sleepy", sometimes she whines for me to pat her on the back, then I pat her but she starts moving around again, sometimes she wants back in my arms for a couple of minutes and so on). And it goes like this for 20-30 minutes until she gradually settles down and falls asleep. I don't even try to cover her up until she's asleep, because she'll end up with all the blanket under her or wrapped chaotically around her. If I try to ignore her, she gets up and starts crying and calling for me. I know I should probably do the gradual withdrawal, but I don't know exactly how: if I replace the lying beside her with the chair, what do I do next? Do I ignore her? Do I put her back in whenever she gets up or moves around ? I cannot understand how should I move further from the crib since I have to put her back or pat her to settle every other minute. So I'm practically by her bedside anyway. and then when she wakes up at night, should I let her cry for one minute and then go and calm her down, get out for one minute and so on? I remember having read this in an interview of Tracy, but I'm not sure it applies to us.

I should also add that it seems to be worse when she naps less, for instance yesterday she woke up after 45 minutes at naptime (1.45 - 2.30), she was perfectly fine for the rest of the day, she fell asleep at 9.15 but woke up countless times through the night. Plus we have just started going to day care and I leave her crying for me every morning there. Maybe I should wait a bit, it;s not the best time to start sleep training, too? The thing is it seems never to be the best time and I am practically at my wits' end, it seems these past months have been an endless nightmare, we are always striving to get through the day, waiting for those 1-2 hours of peace between 9 and 11 p/m/ when she starts fussing around. 
I know you'll say 9 pm is a late bedtime hour for her, but in Romania most babies go to bed around 10 p.m. so she is the earliest of almost all the children we know and I'm not sure I could manage to get her to bed earlier anyway. Plus, it does not suit our schedule at all, we wouldn't be able to go anywhere or do anything in the afternoons. Oh, her sleep routine is this: wake-up around 7.30, naptime: 1.30 - 3.00 p.m. and bedtime routine starts around 8.

Also, I am an interpreter so sometimes I am away from home for a couple of days at a time. Then she is ok to stay with daddy, but keeps calling me constantly and settles much more difficult. the same if I go out in the evening and she is left with daddy. My dearest husband, he is doing all he can and suffers so much that she rejects him, but it's always a struggle  without me around. And this is although he has been involved in her life since the minute she was born and is always around. How could we change this, also?

Please, please, I'm begging you to help me, I would pay to talk to a sleep consultant in Romania, but they aren't much good, I've tried once and half the time she told me things I had already read and the other half asked me questions about what I had already explained in the registration form. So this is my last hope, or else I hope I'll make it through until she actually grows out of it, like everyone is telling me.

Thank you so much and... you have no idea how much this forum and Tracy's books have helped me see that I'm not a bad mother or person for wanting some peace and quiet for me, although I am a mom. God bless you!

Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: 17 month old sleep problems
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2015, 09:23:28 am »
Hi there and welcome to BW :)

I have split off your post into your own topic, as this was you will get more responses to your original question. But please do continue to follow along to the ther post too if you find it helpful.

I am so glad you have found the books helpful, as you know Tracy very much believed that a flexible routine would help both the LOs (little ones) and the whole family. I have personally benefitted from having my DH (dear husband) able to help more around the house and with my DD (dear daughter).

Around 18 months of age there is a sleep regression and LOs seems to find it harder to sleep around this point. It could be that this is the start of this for your DD. Has anything changed in your lives recently that could have unsettled her at all?

Your routine itself looks ok, but it is obviously not quite working for our DD at the moment. Did you follow those links to other threads I posted in my reply to the other post?
Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)
The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.

The first of these sets out the methods you could try to help your LO learn to settle herself without you present. I think that although she did previously settle herself at all NWs (night wakings) she hasn't done so for BT (bedtime) so it might be worth trying gradual withdrawal (GW). Is this something you'd want to try?

One of the things I have also found helpful is adjusting our BT routine slightly so it includes both DH and me every night. We used to have it so I would do bathtime and drying and dressing and then stories some nights and other nights DH would do the full routine, we switched it so if we're both at home we'll both do a bit of bathtime with her, one of us will dress and dry and then we each read her a story. We've found doing this she also settles better on nights when one of us is out, as she is used to both of us being involved. It did take a bit of gentle coaxing to begin with, but is now great.

The second thread I have linked above sets out the helpful ways through the 1-0 transition. I do think it is possible that some of what you experiencing is the sleep regression. If you think so too, you could post here for support from others going through the same thing:
18 month sleep regression support thread - Part 2
Or, you could view it as the start of the 1-0 and have a think about some of the methods suggested on the second thread linked in this post.

Are you able to try a slightly earlier BT at all?

Hope that is a bit helpful, if you would like to please come back and post your EASY for each day and we can look at it as we go. Xxx

~ Naomi ~




Offline Silvana Diana

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Re: 17 month old sleep problems
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2015, 19:13:47 pm »
Thank you for your reply. I have been away for a while as my DD caught a cold in daycare and we are now struggling with that.

You asked me if sth changed in our lives recently. She just started going to daycare, but her sleep problems occurred beforethat. Nothing else.

Thanks for the tips with bedtime routine involving both parents. We'll try that, although we already did part of it.

I would try gw but the question is: what do I do when she starts fussing? It goes ike this: I put her in the crib, we say nighty nighty, she's totally ok with it. Then she starts moving around, crawling, pushing against the wall, throwing her teddy bear at me. Sometimes she gets up and calls for me. If I get off the floor to the crib she instantly lies down. Or other times, she wants up in my arms for a couple of minutes. How do I do gradual withdrawal here? Do i refuse to give in to her calling? What if she starts crying hard? Do I get up and put her back? This is what I do now, actually. Shoul I try leaving the room when she is almost asleep and get back after one minute if she starts crying?

Maybe there are other parents goins through the same? I also think it might be sleep regression, I'll get through those threads, as well.

Thank you so much!

Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: 17 month old sleep problems
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2015, 07:00:04 am »
How're you gettin on?

It might be that she actually finds your presence stimating. Have you tried putting her down and leaving the room? If so, what happens? I would say the importance thing is to be there for any real I need you cries, but not to respond to anything else, and certainly throwing teddies and calling you sounds like she's trying to get you to join in a game. With my DD we never really managed GW but went straight to using my voice to reassure from the door.

If you think she is a bit stimulated with you in the room, you could try a sort of modified WI/WO where you go to her if she cries and lie down next to her until she settles using your voice and sleepy words to reassure her, but as she starts to settle, leave the room and continue using your sleepy words, to keep reassuring her. Not sure if this would work and you'd need to try it.

Let me know how you're doing :)
~ Naomi ~




Offline Silvana Diana

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Re: 17 month old sleep problems
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2015, 20:53:31 pm »
Hi Naomi,

It has been a hectic beginning of the year. Struggling with this ongoing cold and ear infection she has, now some life-altering things going on at my work, so it's hard to keep up. BUT I have been trying to control her behaviour a bit - I've stopped lying down on the floor, but sit instead. And I've stopped talking to her after nighty nighty. Just ssshhh and nighty nighty from time to time and that's all. Also, I am not responding to her calls for as long as I can and when I do, I go to her, lie her back, keep my hand on her for a couple of seconds then move back to my "position". Haven't seen real progress yet, however, but still hoping.
Your suggestion also seems great. I do think she might be stimulated by me, as it takes her nanny maximum 10 minutes to get her to nap at noon. Can you imagine my frustration?! And with her daddy, when I'm away on business trips, she also settles much faster once she gets beyond the "mommy mommy mommy" stage. So it might have something to do with me. But I'm sure if I try to get out of the room she'll start screaming bloody murder. But I'll try exactly like you said and keep you posted on the progress. Thanks so much, even just talking about it with someone who knows what I mean helps a lot!!!


Good night! (It's almost 11 p.m. in Romania. This evening it took me a nice 50 minutes to get her to sleep - from 8.45 to 9.35 p.m. :((

Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: 17 month old sleep problems
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2015, 22:40:49 pm »
Urgh poor you. I feel your pain, my E didn't settle until 9.15pm last night :(

It is very frustrating when LOs settle more quickly for others, I have this to, but find that E settles more quickly for me when I have been able to spend some time with her during the day (when I've been a work, she seems to want to spend more time with me and settles less well). I'd try leaving the room, she might surprise you :)
~ Naomi ~