chaos after sickness/hospital stay

[katie80]

Yay for STTN!! I think it's just a matter of pushing the nap out agin until you get to 11. Maybe 20-30min every few days (unless she starts to seem UT) and do a short CN (10/15/20min) just to get you through to BT. I think what's happening now is that she's catching up from OT, but could easily be getting in an UT/OT loop with the early long nap, CN and late bedtime.

[dache]

If she sttn the previous night last night was just the oposite.
She was up all night. I finnaly gave her milk at 6 bc I knew she'd sleep, which she dis fir 2h and that was the only sleep she got.
Its her cough.
It was a hard night but I still see it positive. She did not beed me to stay with her.A fe times she went back to sleep on her own.  And the cry, it was just different.

Im waititing to see what happens when she is better. Hoping this will be sorted out bc I just got a call for s job interview and if I get the job Id feel even worse for leaving her

[katie80]

Oh dear, sorry about the night. But, glad to hear you are seeing positive changes through the sleeplessness.  I'm thinking once she's well she'll be back to sleeping much better. (((Hugs))) and good luck with the job.

[dache]

Thank you Katie. I think it went well. Will know in a week  or more. Than if I move on to the next phase Ill have take a test that is done only on friday and for sure its not going to be this one. I dont think that Ill start(if I start) in a few weeks So i have the time to deal both her and mine SA.

Her night was even worse. At one point she got so upset I had to pick her up. And she woke up many many times. I tried not holding my arm on her cheast just sit there. Its not working. She has learned that I move my arm and now wants to hold it. To be able to remove it I hold hers inatead. She has learned to check and see if im still holding. She pushes her hands as hard she can to make sure im there.
Ah what a mess

[katie80]

How are the molars looking? Sounds like it could be a combination of teething and SA... are you giving meds?

Glad you're feeling you have a plan with the job.  I hope it all works out for you!

[dache]

Thanks Katie.  I found out that there are 18 people that have applied for 15 available positions so if I dont get it Id be very surprised.Trying to think off all the positive things that Ill get form the job is helping calm me down.

Days and nights are still such a mess.I feel stuck!

I have to find the moment when she is just tiered enough, not UT or OT so that she can fall asleep on her own. And this is very hard! Its a matter of seconds,and its a hit and miss thing.
If I miss it and she is UT she gets up walks in the crib and yells for me to get her. Or she cries until I come in. Then I get her out and then I have to keep trying after 10, 15 minutes, then she gets OT and wont sleep bc she is too tiered.
If I put her down OT (which really happens) she screams and I have to stay with her or do apop to get her to sleep. Today I held her, almost rocked her until she got sleepy. I hate this!

At night when she wakes up she sometimes settles with the paci, which now she is repluging on her on own again, but other times she gets too upset and I have to lay next to her, or sit on next to the crib and almost all of the time hold her hand which now Im pretty sure is/is becoming a prop.
Last night it was just as a perfect example.  She woke up the first half of the night settling on her own, then she needed me there. First I set there, holding her hand then removed the hand but still sat there. Then I went back to bed and when she woke up I tried calming her with my voice, saying shhh and Its ok Im here, mummy is here, its sleepy time. She would calm down for a minute or two and then again the same until she got to the point she was so upset that I had to lay next to her.

Then during the day bc she is OT she has tantrums and melt downs and hits her head from the floor. And got hurt today. Im rereading Taming toddlers in BWSAYP hoping that helps, but Im also thinking of starting a thread bc I think Im not dealing with her emotional explosions in the right way.
Sigh. Its so hard when I see how she can be (independent, happy, fun) and then have her smack her head on the floor, cry for every little thing, stuck to me-I cant even use to toilet.

Im going to stay home now, for a week or two, trying to figure her routine.
My goal is
Wu 7
nap 11-1
bt 7.

Im also trying to figure meal times together with snack times.


Ugh, this is me thinking out loud, a vent too

If you have any thought about anything, especially dealing with the night wakings, Id be happy to hear it. Or just some tough love for letting my hand become a prop

[katie80]

Hi hon, (((hugs))). I think staying home and working on consistency is always good idea. Are you thinking you'll set the nap, so that she gets used to going down at a certain time? I wonder if she doesn't need more like 4.5-5hr A in the morning and that's why you're having a hard time guaging it... some days she's tired from broken nights and goes down, but some days she doesn't. What do you think?

If you want to get rid of holding her hand at night, then you might be in for a few rough NWs, but it can definitely be done. Is she still working on those teeth? I've always found that I've needed to intervene/offer a bit more help during NWs when teething, but it often resolves on its own when the teeth are through. Are the nights any better when you give meds?  Seeing as she doesn't always need your hand, it may not be an issue... it's hard to know not being there.

As for the tantrums/hitting her head on the floor, please don't hesistate to post about it. Neither of mine have done that at that age, so I don't feel I can offer a lot of help, but I'm sure there are ladies who can. It's so good to get that BTDT advice and also just some reassurance and encouragement.

[dache]

I always thought that she needs less A time in the morning and more in the evening.Or maybe bc she wakes up at night and has EW she can go down for a nap as early as 9. 

I want to have set nap times. I think it will be easier for my mum. Off course dd cues would be the guide but Ill try and have the nap at 11 which will provide enough A time in the morning and also enough A time before BT. Right now I dont see this happening but I need to try, at least to bring things to some order.

Molars are coming out for sure. Last night bt was 9 and same as the night before, she settle on her own the first half of the night and then form 3 she cried a lot. I gave her paracetamol and put gel on her teeth and felt that her gums are swollen in many places, molars the most.
I still had to hold her hand while she calmed down, then when she started getting sleepy I removed my hand but she grabs it, so I hold her a little more, after that when I removed it she was reaching trough the bars but I put her hand back and after a few times she fell asleep.  I dont know if she did not woke up or I dont remember from being too tiered but I got her out of the crib at 6:30. I think I had to tell her Im here a few more times but not sure

We thought that maybe its a good idea for dh to try put her for naps and resettle her at night. So for this nap he did WI/WO with PD. At the end she got so upset and red he and to pick her up, trying shushhh/pat for a few minutes then put her down. After that he had to go in once more to replug and she was asleep. But she only slept for an hour. She is up now and it clearly still tiered. Ugh, I can see how the rest of the day will be

While he did wi/wo I set there biting nails, feeling miserable like we are doing something wrong. I dont think we can do this. Especially at night.

The plan for now is medicate for teething, offer help when needed and praying that everything is resolved after the teeth are out.


Update on the rest of the day It was just as I thought, fuss fuss fuss. She did had a ct in the stroller. I did looooong wind down. Played baby mozart long before bt.  Put gel on her gum and gave her paracetamol. At 8 I took her in the room, put her down, tucked her in and out. She is asleep now. No fuss, no nothing. 

[Katet]

I still had to hold her hand while she calmed down, then when she started getting sleepy I removed my hand but she grabs it, so I hold her a little more, after that when I removed it she was reaching trough the bars but I put her hand back and after a few times she fell asleep.

I found that it was better to place my hand on their thigh or shoulder because  you could kind of do a really slow pat so you took it away for longer periods rather than them reaching for it.

She did had a ct in the stroller. I did looooong wind down. Played baby mozart long before bt.  Put gel on her gum and gave her paracetamol. At 8 I took her in the room, put her down, tucked her in and out. She is asleep now. No fuss, no nothing. 

The cat nap probably prevented her from being too overtired. I know with both my boys they were still doing 2 naps at 18months DS1 did until 21months & I forced him to 1 nap before DS2 was born one was normally a catnap & a longer nap. With DS2 he did the 2 naps because while he was a LSN child he only ever did 9-10 hours at night & he actually had an average A time ability, so it was the only way we could make it work

FWIW the long wind-down still works with my 11yo when he has been busy or is worried about something, like last night, I sat with him stroking his hair, because he was having a hard time (for a reasonable reason) switching off.  You may find that she really is someone who needs the long wind down all the time.

[dache]

I spoke too soon.  Soon after I posted she woke up crying. I went in, but did not hold her hand.
She calmed down when she saw me so I just stayed there.
I guess I can do GW where instead of moving away form the crib I move down her body, first holding her tummy, then her thigh...I think I read here about someone doing that. If this does not work I can try that. Thanks!

Yap, I apop naps in the stroller. I knew she was tiered bc she did not napped long so I took her out in the stroller.
How long did your lo sleep during the day? This short nap surprised us today. She usually sleeps for 2h, rarely 2:30h. I apop a cn if she had an early morning nap so that she is not OT by BT.

Sometimes I read what I have written and feel like Im doing everything right and still failing.

[katie80]

Sometimes I read what I have written and feel like Im doing everything right and still failing.

Oh (((hugs))), Dache, we all feel like that sometimes.  You have a sweet, spirited little sprite who has not made things easy for you.  We can't control everything, no matter how hard we try.  You are doing a great job!

I always thought that she needs less A time in the morning and more in the evening.Or maybe bc she wakes up at night and has EW she can go down for a nap as early as 9. 

Yk, that early nap can actually encourage the EW.  It's hard if you think she needs more A time at the end of the day, but right now it seems like she's hitting her second wind at the end of the day and is in an OT loop, so I think if you can push that nap out and set a time, hopefully she can regulate a bit.

The plan for now is medicate for teething, offer help when needed and praying that everything is resolved after the teeth are out.

I guess I can do GW where instead of moving away form the crib I move down her body, first holding her tummy, then her thigh...I think I read here about someone doing that.

I think that sounds like a good plan.  There's no need to do WIWO if you're not comfortable with it.  Honestly, I do think some LOs need a bit more of a gentle method when teeth like molars are involved.  Any 'help' I've had to do with my three while teething has been easily removed once they were done.

Yap, I apop naps in the stroller. I knew she was tiered bc she did not napped long so I took her out in the stroller.
How long did your lo sleep during the day? This short nap surprised us today. She usually sleeps for 2h, rarely 2:30h. I apop a cn if she had an early morning nap so that she is not OT by BT.

I think that sounds about right.  If she only does one nap, she can probably do 2.5hr, but if she's doing 2 naps, it should likely be more like 1.5-2hr.  I wonder if she could have even done an earlier BT tonight... how long was the CN?

[dache]

I am starting to think that my hand is not a prop after all. 
Last night she slept better, still up many times but did not needed to hold my hand. Settled back with the paci.
But she woke up at 5:45 And nap time was beyond stressful. She was upset, hitting the sides of the crib,opened the side and when I was fixing it she got scared. Took her out,calmed her down (in the living room) after a while I tried putting her again,she cried again....When she finally got to sleep she slept for an hour. Again! Where did these short nap came from now?!
No cn, tired early bt but she was not tired. So again, she fell asleep just before 8. Again, no hand.

When she wakes up so early like today I give her a bottle (never before 6)and most of the time she goes back to sleep for 1-2h. We all need some rest and some days this is the only sleep I get. Maybe that`s why she is not tiered when bt is 7/7:30 Even if she has only one hour nap?

[katie80]

Last night she slept better, still up many times but did not needed to hold my hand. Settled back with the paci.
But she woke up at 5:45

Maybe the CN was enough to be less OT at BT, but too much for a decent WU.

No cn, tired early bt but she was not tired. So again, she fell asleep just before 8. Again, no hand.

Are you sure she's not silly OT and in her second wind?

Can you post a routine for the last few days?

[dache]

What an improvement last night.She woke up once, at 1:30 or was it 3:30  Sleep deprivation is getting to me

Today
Wu 5:30. I tired resettling her until 6:10 and gave her a bottle. She slept till 7:30 (I decided to try and push the bottle as close as  possible to 7)
Put her down for a nap just now (10:20) will see how that goes.

Yesterday
Wu 5:45 gave her a bottle at 6 slept until 8
Nap 11:30-12:30
Bt 8

Tuesday
early wake up, bottle at 6. Slept till about 8
nap 12-1
cn 3-3:30
bt 8

Im not sure about the previous days
Monday
Wu 7
nap 11-1
bt 8ish

I remember Monday bc its kind of a stick out. She wu after 6, and nap was 2-4. Bt was 9.


Its usually like that
Naps were almost always is 2h. I never put her before 10. And that only if I have to. My goal is 11 and Im trying hard for that.
If nap is early I try and fit a ct but its not always possible.

She has fallen asleep now with out a fuss. Will see how long she goes.

[katie80]

It does sound like overall things are getting better in terms of her settling.

I think if you're going to give her the bottle at the EW, you need to do it right away and put her back to sleep, rather than trying to settle for awhile and then giving the bottle.  I wonder if that's why she's having a hard time regulating the naps, because the EW and then extra morning sleep is acting like a small nap.  Then, she's not taking a full mid-day nap, sometimes having a CN and sometimes resisting.  And, I'm guessing that's why the EBT may not be working as well.

I also think you're putting her down too early for a nap and her fighting and the 1hr naps are UT.  Seeing as you're going for consistency, I'd keep giving her the bottle at the EW for now, have a more set WU in the morning (so, 7-7:30 and don't let her sleep past 7:30), nap at either 11:30 or 12 (I think I'd go for 12, but you know her best) and then BT at 7-7:30.  If she only does an hr nap, you can do a 20min CN at 4ish.  I think if you hold to this for a week or two, she should even out a bit. What do you think?