Random increase in sleep needs - WWYD?

[LovelyLilyandJack]

I'm sure many of you already know Jack is lsn. He's currently refusing to nap at nursery, which means 2 consecutive nnds a week. We've been in a nice rythmn for a while where he has a nice long  uncapped (1hr 20-30) nap on Wednesdays after his nnds, then another longish nap Thursdays  (1hr 10ish  usually), and then his normal 45-60 minutes the rest of the week.

This week he napped 1hr 30 on Wednesday, but took a while to go to sleep at BT and woke at 5 am Thursday. He wouldn't resettle. Then Thursday I woke him at 2.30, after 1hr 20 nap. He took 45 minutes to go to sleep last night, but then slept almost 11hrs and woke at 6.30am today. I've just had to wake him at the same time after the same nap length today.

Normally I don't cap cos he's pretty good at self regulating and doesn't nap for long anyway. Usually if he's napping longer then he needs it. But that 5 am start has freaked me out, and he did better last night with a slightly capped nap.  Could be that he just had one random EW though and nothing else is related. Anyway, wwyd  - continue to cap until he goes back to a shorter nap, or let him sleep uncapped but perhaps earlier so his A to bed is long enough? Or something else? I'm not used to having a toddler who naps well  - it's completely thrown me!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Sorry forgot to say his normal routine is:

WU: 6.10 - 6.30ish
Nap: 1pm for 45 - 60 minutes
BT : 7, asleep by 7.15 until this week

[michaeljacknnugg]

I might be tempted to try for an earlier nap, but only by half an hour or so. Not a good idea to reinforce ew if you can help it!

My DS did some monster ews and made up for it with a long nap. He was a bear to wake though, and really didn't take to capping at all.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Sorry for the late reply. I've not been able to get on the site for a few days.

I completely forgot when I first posted that we were out for the day on Saturday, so he only got a 30 minute nap in the buggy. Then I was too scared to try a long nap on Sunday in case he EW on Monday and then had a very long nnd  (it's nursery Monday and Tuesday).  Anyway, he's a bit OT now but we did an EBT  tonight, will have another NND  at nursery tomorrow and then weds we'll try an earlier long nap again to see if an earlier nap means we can catch him up on the NNDs without getting an EW the next day. I'll just do 20-30 minutes earlier though - that generally works for him. Thanks for the advice

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Hun,

How is it going  I would also have suggested an earlier nap, meaning you can leave the length the same, but it should be more restorative. Is it working  So is Tuesday and Wednesday his NN nursery days  What time is nursery pick up  Just wondering if you could get a 15/20 min cat nap in around 4 on those days 

x.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Aah, was just thinking about this thread and then I come on to see your reply, Vicki

We're still getting EWs, though not consistently.  Saturday last week I forgot we were out, so he only got a 30 minute nap that day.  Sunday I think we got an EW, not sure, but we did a slightly early nap and capped at 1hr (so 12.45 -1.45 actually asleep) cos I was nervous about him EWing on a nursery day when I knew he wouldn't nap.  In the past, too much day sleep has made that more likely than not enough (he's pretty good at crashing if I push him).  He had some NWs around midnight I think, but otherwise slept til a reasonable time (6.10 I think).  The last few days have looked like this (as far as I can remember):

Monday - nursery:
WU:  6.10 I think
BT: 6.40, asleep by 6.55

Tuesday - nursery:
WU: 6.35
BT: 6.40, asleep within 10 minute I think.

Wednesday:
WU: 5.30
Nap: pd 12.30, asleep by 12.45. Did 1hr 20 - 30
BT: 7, asleep within 10 minutes I think.

Today:
WU: 5.30
Nap: Fell asleep in buggy at 10.20, which is very unusual. My husband only let him have 5 minutes or so.
Nap: 12.50 - 2.10 (this was uncapped). Has woken up happy.

So I'm guessing the EWs are OT related?  What do you think?  It's wierd, cos he did really well on this exact routine for weeks until recently.  I think he stopped napping at nursery in November, and we've done almost exactly the same timings since then, just moving his nap to nearer 1pm as the week goes on and his nap starts to shorten again.

I can't pick him up from nursery til 5.15ish, so no chance of a cat nap then (last time he slept past 3 we had 2 hr NWs).  And cos I then have to collect his sister and get some food into them before BT, there's no chance of getting him into bed any earlier than 6.40 either....  Not sure how to deal with this random bout of tiredness.  Nothing seems to have triggered it that I can see...?  I mean the last few days will have made him OT, but I can't think what started the random sleep in the first place.  He is right in the middle of cutting his last two molars.  The last lot didn't affect his sleep though, as far as I remember... His mood is generally good - I was surprised he fell asleep in the buggy cos he's not acting at all tired. He does have a long history of UT/OT  loops...

[Truly Blessed]

It does look like OT kicks in during those 2 nursery days and then you get EW :/ I most certainly wouldn't rule out the molars being a part of this Hun, even though the last ones didn't seem to affect him. It's so difficult when nursery is in the mix, you are most certainly not alone there, as I'm sure you know. What time do they try and put him down at nursery  Have you seen where he is supposed to sleep, and what the noise/light is like etc  Have they told you what they think is preventing him napping, maybe OS  It would be helpful for you to know details I guess. They might be able to use white noise for eg.

It does seem that without the ability to try for a cat nap or get him down any earlier, your hands are pretty much tied (not very helpful advise I know  ) You can't really try for more sleep the day before nursery  as he might EW because of it.

IIWM I would ride it out and see if things change once the molars have settled. If I come up with any genius ideas I will lt you know, I'll give it some thought.

((HUGS)) Hun.x.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Yeah, that's kind of what I thought  - this routine worked before and I think was pretty easy on him  - he naturally shortened his nap as he caught up from the NNDs before, so I know he was getting the sleep he needed before. So if I stick to the same routine for a bit, it's unlikely he'll get very OT. In the meantime his teeth will come through and teething will never be a factor again! Hooray!

Would you continue with the uncapped naps btw?  I'm thinking of keeping them with pd at 12.45ish and then if they shorten I'll move them back to 1pm like I've done before?

[Truly Blessed]

Would you continue with the uncapped naps btw?  I'm thinking of keeping them with pd at 12.45ish and then if they shorten I'll move them back to 1pm like I've done before?

Yes I would for now Hun. Good luck.x.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Thank you 

[Truly Blessed]

My pleasure 

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Quick update - I think I have an idea of what's been going on here....  I managed to get a look in Jack's mouth the other day and his molars are properly through - they're almost level with his other teeth now.  I think he possibly needed more sleep while they were coming through but the last week or so, since they've properly cut, his sleep needs have dropped.  Plus he's coming up to 2, and I was expecting a big A time leap around about now.  Once I relaised his teeth were through I tried capping again.  1hr naps weren't giving us very good nights, but yesterday I capped at 40/45 minutes and he then accidentally had a late night (we were out), and he went back to sleeping 11 hrs again.  So as usual with Jack, it was UT as the underlying cause I think.

Anyway, I'm going to start a new thread cos now I have a different problem - what to cap at, particularly on a wednesday following 2 NNDs?  And after that late night I'm also not sure on BT now.  It's kind of the opposite problem I started with, so thought a new thread would be best...  Thanks for your help on this one

[Truly Blessed]

I think that's a good idea Hun, if you haven't already done so I would site LSN in the title, it's something that we ASN or HSN Mammy's aren't as good at advising with as BTDT parents

x.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Good idea - I'll update the title now...