early morning wakings....8,5 months old

[Martini~]

Let's see how today will go?
And how was the settling for this nap?

[angelinagr]

She slept for 2 hours until 2.10 pm. I thought that she might not need any more sleep. Although round 5 pm she started yawing. We were not at home, so she didn't sleep. At 7 o'clock she was ready to fall asleep in the car, but I didn't let her to sleep as it was close to bedtime.

The settling for the nap was quite easy. It took her less than 15 minutes and she cried a little. I suppose that is right....

[Martini~]

Yes that's great Hon:)! Nice long sleep she probably is catching up for lost sleep in last days.
10mo would be a bit early for one nap in my opinion however 1-nap days here and there won't harm.

You have to judge by yourself when to put her down to get two naps. At that age we were doing out first one nap days but we didn't settle on one nap routine until now, haha:).

What about routine as follows (please change if you have a different WU):
7am WU
11:00 nap for 1.5
12:30 WU from a nap
15:30/16:00 nap for 30min
7:00/7:30 BT (or 8 the latest if her second nap is longer/later)

[katie80]

I agree. ^^^

Just to add another option, if you'd rather try for the shorter morning nap (which may be more difficult as she's just learning IS), it could look like this...
WU 7am
Nap 1 10-10:30am
Nap 2 1:30-3/3:30pm
BT 7/7:30pm

So glad she did a nice, long nap today... hope you got a good night too!

[angelinagr]

We had a terrible night!! She was awake 2.00-4.30 am.... I didn't know what to do. The moment she fell asleep, she was starting to cry without any particular reason. I will try the two naps for a week. I believe that we are still learning how to sleep and I can not understand what she actually needs/wants. I am afraid to put her earlier in the evening ...

[angelinagr]

Definitely I should do something wrong, otherwise I can not explain my failure. She didn't manage to get sleep neither at 10.00am either after the fruits. During her lunch she was eating having her eyes closed. Every time I Tried to put her in her bed, she waked. After the lunch we tried for 30 minutes, but she didn't fall asleep. Finally she fell asleep in the stroller..... 

[katie80]

Oh no, so many (((hugs))). It sounds like either OT or discomfort. Do you see any teeth working their way through? It could also be regression from the sleep training, that's not uncommon during the first week.

I am afraid to put her earlier in the evening ...

That's understandable, it's hard to do for the first time, but it really does help when her day sleep is off. I've used an early bedtime with all three of mine during nap transitions, as it helps stave off the OT. They will often sleep til normal wake-up, making up for the lost daytime sleep.  And even if they don't, they still will have had more/better sleep overnight and we are then able to continue on the next day rather than trying to still play catch up.  Does that make sense? 

The first time I tried EBT with my DD, I was also nervous... she was about 14/15mo and had only slept 1h15min. I put her down at 6:15pm rather than 7 and she slept til 6:45 the next morning.  It was great and I've been sold ever since.  My DS2 is the same as Marta's DS and has just transitioned to one nap (it's still a little rocky, TBH) and when he only sleeps 1-1.5hr for that nap, I put him to bed earlier, so he's not quite so OT.  Hope that helps!

[Martini~]

In this house with a crappy nap we usually go for catnap instead of EBT but it's mainly because catnaps work for us. DS never refuses BT, and usually sleeps well with a catnap so I don't fight. But I know EBT works for many so it's worth a try!

[angelinagr]

No new teeth are working their way. I will continue the sleep training for another 2 weeks. Today I will put her to bed earlier.
Definitely she is overtired not only because she hasn't sleep enough today and last night also, but also she is trying to walk by herself....

Thank you for the responses 

[angelinagr]

I am exhausted and desperate!!! She continues to wake up during the night (3-4 times) and she stays awake for 2.5-3hours. I tried to give her water, milk, herbs, tea but she didn't want. She didn't seem to be discomfort. I don't know what else to do! During the day she sleeps for 1-1,5 hour. I put her down earlier without any difference.
She sleeps for 8-9 hours every day (included day and night sleep).

[Martini~]

She is definitely OT honey. Can you post your routine right now?

[angelinagr]

6.30-7 wake up and 1 bottle
10.30-11.10 sleep
3.10-4.30 sleep
8.10 bedtime
I don't manage every time to put her down before the fruits (11.00 am), so then she sleeps at 12.00 (after the fruits)
Sometimes I think that she is not tired enough that's why she wakes during the night.

[Martini~]

She has 13h day, sleeps 2h on 2 naps and is 10mo... I would say that unless she is low sleep needs, it's rather OT than UT. When she goes to sleep at 12 after fruits, is she sleeping once during day?

I would go for her being OT and would try to make her day shorter. However with her nap ending at 4:30 and being 1:30 it maybe difficult to put her down at 7pm. Have you tried EBT? Mine would easily go for it as he was just tired after a long day but many kiddos don't. In that case to bring BT earlier I would either shorten the morning nap and bring pm nap earlier or go for long morning nap routine around 11:30 (longest nap after longest A) and than a catnap around 4 for 30min. 7pm BT should be achievable in both cases.
How do you feel with what I wrote?

[angelinagr]

When she sleeps after fruits, she doesn't sleep any more during the day. It takes her too much time to settle down herself.
I understand that she is OT. If I put her earlier to bed, she will wake up at 5.00-5.30....That was the first reason I addressed to you. When she wakes at 5.-5.30, she is not in the mood for more sleep. She maybe doesn't want to play or do anything else, but certainly she doesn't want to sleep.
Last night I put her in bed at 7.45. She woke up once during the night and in the morning she wakes at 5.50...
Today I'll put her in bed at 7.30, tomorrow at 7.15
I agree with everything you say and recommend me...

[Martini~]

Oh Honey, I am very sorry for you. I know that can be exhausting to get up before 6am constantly. But it will pass, earlier or later.

And now regarding her sleep. You did have EMW when started this thread but they were for sure UT (too much day sleep, 3 naps, 3h+ daytime sleep). Now you have a different story Hon, as she is OT. So maybe it's worth to try EBT on days she didn't sleep much or had 1 nap day. I am not promising it will solve all your problems, but it's worth trying if she is a kiddo who is catching up on lost sleep.

Reading your post and looking for a starting point... From 3 naps you went to one on some days.

During this time she was taking 2 naps (45 minutes) and one longer nap (2 hours) during the day.

From sleeping 10.5-11h at night and 3.5h during day (around 14h per 24h), now she is getting 8-9h according to what you wrote.

That's why I would think of:
1. Trying tomake sure she is getting 2 naps a day... everyday for now. I remember my DS when 10mo and really he needed couple of days on 2 naps to recover after one day on one nap. If you are mixing days with 2 and 1 nap, it will be difficult to catch up for her. Aim for 13.5h total sleep per 24h as she was getting 14h quite recently and it was fine for her.
2. 13.5-14h per 24h means that if she did 2 naps (total 2h) aim for 12h day as a maximum. If she did more like 2.5 or 3h, than you can work on a longer day.
3. One nap days at that age are very risky in my opinion as they can sleep 2h per day and still be very OT after 12h day as too long shots of A is really a challenge for them. So if you just have a day with 2h nap (only one however) I would aim for even shorter day than 12h like 11.5. Even if she wakes at 5:30/6:00 next day, she should have better night and be able to survive next day.

What do you think Honey?