18 month sleep regression support thread-part 3

[kayra]

Good question from trimbler.
Could be developmental from the things you mention. I don't have a lot of ut experience but if she's sleeping more with you it doesn't seem like she would if she really were ut..no?
Dd still has nw, nothing major just out of the norm. I think it's teeth...she's been a bit feverish and very clingy for a couple days. She was perkier at bedtime so let's hope tomorrow's better!
Jealous of your 3hr nap trimbler! How's she been doing?

[trimbler]

Haha it's not always that long, in fact we only had that once at home, about a month ago - the CM got the benefit if that one, and 2.75h yesterday! Normally the school run gets in the way or she just wakes earlier anyway, but I think she just gets really tired on one nap and crashes out if she can. Hoping that soon she'll get used to it and get by better on 'shorter' naps... NWs here too, can't see any teeth about to cut but she was pooing all day today, I'm fairly sure the teeth are moving... Hope L feels better soon

[First mum]

Hey Trimbler and Kayra, thanks for your posts.  The nap is usually bang on 1h 50 mins.  The longer nap is about once every 10 days and the shorter is daycare days or the day after.

No real pattern with shorter or longer naps affecting nights.  I was watching as thought I may have to start capping but nothing lines up. Last night was better with down at 7:30 and a wu at 4 and 5. Both resettled and wu at 6:20.

I really am at a loss to what is occurring??

[kayra]

How old is you Lo? It doesn't seem that long a nap unless she really is very Lsn.
Trimbler, hope those teeth come soon if they are indeed the culprit!
Very bad night with dd, she had seemed more chipper before bed time so I thought we were ok but apparently not. Feels like the mother of all ww's bad nights bad naps ridiculously clingy, but no fever or signs of illness, don't know what's going. Could be canines I suppose, who knows!

[trimbler]

Yes blame it on canines - I did with DS for months But...if it goes on for that long you probably know it's a routine thing too...hopefully it won't go on that long though! Yeah - feeling like ww here too, I thought they were over? Feeling sorry for DD, she really does seem to do best with a 3h nap atm, I just can't be bothered to try the morning CN any more as she so rarely takes it now it just feels like a waste of time. Was hoping for a nice long catch up nap today with no school run, but my lovely DH decided he just had to go to the loo as she was dropping off, which disturbed her, and then it took her ages to get off after that so she did a 1.5h OT nap and couldn't resettle, then poo'd so of course really tired at BT, tried EBT but it took her a little while to get off as she was just crazy, now the typical early NWs, I'm feeling really frustrated at poor DH and know that tomorrow is unlikely to be any better as she gets so excited at church that she always struggles to settle afterwards oh well, just have to hang on in there I guess, this too shall pass...

[First mum]

Yeah my little one if definitely lsn.  12 hours total sleep has been the norm for a bit.  I've tried ebt but she doesn't tack on and to be honest she is a happy wee thing.  I don't get any nap or bedtime resistance with the current timings so unsure what else to try.

Last night was again better, asleep at 7:30 and woke at 5 and resettled till 6.  Think I just have to keep things in her routine and hope she stretches her morning wu a bit.  We have just ordered a gro clock and hoping that will help.

My lo is 20 months.  Whats normal total sleep at this age?

[kayra]

If she's happy the routine can't be too bad, right? Maybe over time you can push the nap and bt a bit so that you have a later start to the day? I think 13-14 hr is probably normal at this age? I'd need to check,  ut for a Lsn maybe 12 is enough.

Trimbler, hugs! I'd be so cross with my dh too   I'm mental about not letting anyone near their room when it's nap time maybe you could leave church a tad earlier so she can wind down a bit? It really is hard when they don't just adapt nicely into our plans
Dd had a better night, she's a bit better I think but still not her complete self. Trying for an early nap in hopes that we can go to church altogether, otherwise one of us will go with ds1 and the other stay home wih the twins.

[trimbler]

Oh dear just venting sorry it's all my fault today as I didn't walk out during the sermon to get her from crèche for lunch even though she was so tired this morning so of course she took longer to eat her lunch (at church) than usual as she was so tired, left as soon as the service ended and continued feeding her in the buggy but she was still going once we got home with only 5mins to spare before nap time so of course she ended up going down around 10mins late after nappy change and then messed around for half an hour, poor overtired girl! And now I'm even more of a mess as she hasn't been able to catch up all weekend so the nights are bad and I 'm sleep deprived and ironically I couldn't even concentrate on the sermon as I was worrying about it going on and DD not getting lunch in time - silly, silly me! Sorry

[trimbler]

OK sorry for my earlier outburst, I guess I just remember this regression being awful and long with DS and when I see an OT spiral starting I start to really stress as I just don't cope well with sleep deprivation! I feel that she does cope better when her nap is 3h, we can recover from a 2.5h nap with early BT but less than that and we're stuck. I just don't think there's much point trying for a morning CN again now since this regression is making it much harder for her to settle but then I struggle to see how to help her catch up, this is where we are now :
Up 7am (regardless of when she actually woke, EWs are common but she often does off a bit and acts so tired all day if not)
Nap 12:30 (consistently struggles to settle if I try any earlier and always struggles at the weekend even if really tired all morning) unfortunately this has been stuck at an OT 1.5h nap the last couple of days with no resettle
BT 7pm if a 3h nap, 6pm if a disaster nap!
She seems to need a shorter A to BT otherwise she had loads of OT waking and a generally bad night. She seems to do well on 15h TS.

Oh sorry was going to respond to first mum but am being summoned for story time!

[trimbler]

OK so I'm back again, first mum I was going to say that what we did with DS once we'd figured him out at this stage was to push BT a bit later to start with so that he was more tired and slept a longer night. But after a while the night would get too short for him (we realised he needed at least 11h to be refreshed the next day) so we'd reduce his nap a bit to bring BT earlier and lengthen the night again, if that makes sense? I wonder if you could try something similar?

[First mum]

Thanks Trimbler, so hard to know what to do???  We have had a couple of days with 10.5 hour nights and 2+ hour naps.  Tonight she was asleep at 7 as only had 30 mins at the childminder, but am almost positive she will still wake at 5am, I'll cover her up again, stroke her back and she will go back to sleep till 6:20.  7:30pm seems to be working on non daycare days as she goes into the cot at 7 and it takes her a bit to wind down, that gives her 5.5 hours awake which is good.  She is tired, but coping well.  Not sure I'd want to push it much more.  For about the last 6 weeks now regardless of bedtime (6:30, 7 or she wakes at 5 and then 6.   

We have ordered a grow clock to see if she can learn to self settle at 5 as its a long day for me and hubby as we very rarely get back to sleep.

Think I need to watch and wait.  How are things with you?

[trimbler]

I suspect it's time to start cutting back on the nap. I think on those days with 2h+ naps she probably just doesn't need more than 10,5h sleep but that day with 30min nap she may have done a 10,5h OT night???

[First mum]

Yip, think I am going to make the call after daycare tomorrow.  As she is only in care 2 days I can get back on top of any ot pretty quickly.  30-45 mins nap is pretty normal for daycare so if the next 2 nights are normal am going to cap her nap at 90 minutes for a whole week and then reassess!

Have you tried anticipating your lo waking at the 90 minute mark for that ot nap?  When my lo was first dropping the nap we had a blip at the 1 hour mark so I sat beside the cot and waited until she stirred and then stroked her bum.  I did it for a couple of days and then she stretched longer.  I did the same at 90 mins and we eventually got to a consistent 2 hours.

[trimbler]

Hope it goes well! Thanks, first mum, I'll have to give that serious thought as it may be the only way but my only concern is that usually when I've had to wake her from a nap (in the past - not for a while now ) she's kind of sprung up with a giggle or squeal of excitement as soon as I open the door, unless she's really deeply asleep, and I don't want that to happen if I'm going in to help her transition! But she's used to going to sleep by herself so I 'd probably have to creep back in at some point or else just pretend that I've left but lie down on the bed - it's pitch black with white noise so she may not notice if I'm still in there But then I'd worry about checking the time - the light might disturb her, and I do feel that I really need that time during her nap to get everything else done, there always seems so much to do! Hmmm but I just don 'to think that the morning nap is an option any more, which is a shame as I think she'd have kept it for longer if we hadn't had all the travelling around Christmas and of course this regression. Trying for a morning CN now as the night was so bad but she's just so wired, as she was at 5:30am this morning wired but tired! She's not crying, just seems to be so awake and buzzing like there's so much going on in her head, she did this at night too, talking incessantly, and early in the morning. I guess technically she had around 10.5h sleep, so not sure if it counts as an EW but given that she had 2.5h sleep at the CM (yay!) yesterday that makes 13h, but she's HSN and really needs 15h in order to stay on an even keel, it's just so hard to see her so tired and swinging from hyper happy to really miserable all the time, so wobbly on her feet, not eating properly, etc etc not to mention that I really really don't cope well with sleep deprivation, it's really taking its toll now and I feel myself spiralling down and down... I struggled with ppd last time and was so thankful that I haven't so far, but starting to worry about going down again now I'm just getting so stressed as I can't see how to get either of us more sleep sorry perhaps I should be posting in couch, let me know if so, but in my mind it 's all related to the 18mo SR! DH keeps dropping hints that he 'd like more children and atm I just can't think of anything worse - I mean, I love our kids, they're both great, amazing in fact but I just don 'to think it's fair on them for me to be like this, I just want to move on from this phase of life, I look at DS and think I just can't wait until DD is that age and I shouldn't have to be so sleep deprived and worrying about her sleep any more. Not to mention the strain that our marriage is under because I can't cope with the sleep deprivation, surely it's better to work on that than to put ourselves through all this again?? As I said, tell me to post elsewhere if this ranting isn 't appropriate right here, sorry!

Back again - grrrrr! So DD finally got to sleep this afternoon and after an hour this noise started outside and woke her I thought it was a hedge trimmer, but no - a leaf blower! And there aren't even any leaves to blow He's just wandering around outside with it making loads of noise just blowing a couple of leaves from one place to another I mean I guess it's in his job description but really? Ok I must stop complaining, I really must!

[kayra]

Oh hugs Trimbler how annoying! Could you have screamed at him? Might have helped you feel a bit better
I used to stress about ds1's sleep like this too, I remember going to be bathroom screaming and crying in frustration b/c he'd woken too early or messed about or sthg!!! Like you it was bc I knew he needed more sleep but now I realise if there's nothing more you can do about it there's just nothing more you can do.... This may not be the advice you want but I'd like to say try to relax a bit more...if she's ok to stay in bed if she wakes early from her nap just leave her till you get what you need to do done, just try to roll with the punches. I know it's horrid to cope with a grumpy bub but if there's nothing you can do don't beat yourself up.... Xxxx
Our naps seem to have got a bit better, dd seems over whatever she had, she was very cheerful this afternoon,  but ds woke from his nap with a high fever and then threw up all over me...I managed to get the fever down a bit and he did pretty well with dinner, but very droopey in the evening poor thing