Author Topic: 6m old, UT or OT?!?! Mulitple night wakings (Read 5487 times)

Robinkvernon · « **on:** January 27, 2015, 19:10:20 pm »

Posted before and I think we've eliminated some of the issued. Our (almost) 6 month old is waking up 2-3 times at night. Usually at the following:

8-11 pm (early waking- he knows how to independent sleep-we put him down drowsy but he wants to be comforted to go back down)
2-3 am (wants to nurse)
5-6 am (wants to nurse)

And momma needs some sleep.........so what is the solution? He is BF with me and gets one bottle of formula at child care. He has been on EASY since birth and is a textbook baby. We are on a 4 hour EASY routine. Looks like:

7am Eat
9:15 (to 9:30)-11 Sleep
11am Eat (breast milk bottle)
1:15-3 Sleep
3pm Eat (formula bottle at child care)
Then activity till 7pm which we nurse and go to sleep by 7:30

The one thing I've notice is he is falling asleep during the 7pm nursing. Does that mean OT??? Please help me figure out why he has multiple wakings. Once he is nursed he goes right back down but I feel he nurses when he's not hungry.

katie80 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 29, 2015, 01:19:19 am »

I think it does look like he might be OT, his last A time is quite long. Have you tried putting him for bed at 7pm instead, so feedng at 6:30?

newkidontheblock · « **Reply #2 on:** January 29, 2015, 03:48:06 am »

Agree with PP. Sounds like OT to me as your last A is quite long. For us, wakings soon after BT always indicate OT.

Also, his A times quite short for a 6 month old. Is this the routine followed at the daycare? An increase in A times would mean the last nap ending later, decreasing the long A to bed and reducing the chances of OT. Most LOs are doing closer to 3hours A at that time. What do you think?
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!

Robinkvernon · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2015, 14:09:04 pm »

I made some adjustments this week and started his night routine at 6:45 with bedtime at 7:15 and that eliminated the first wake up!! Thank you for the advice.

I am still getting a 1-3am wake up with him wanting to nurse. I always nurse him because he's on the thin side and could use the extra weight. Not sure if I'm doing accidental parenting....

I'm also going to work with his caregiver to increase his morning activity time. So would you say something like this?:
7am Wake & eat
7:30-9:30 activity
9:30-11 sleep

katie80 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2015, 17:34:28 pm »

Quote from: Robinkvernon on January 31, 2015, 14:09:04 pm

I am still getting a 1-3am wake up with him wanting to nurse. I always nurse him because he's on the thin side and could use the extra weight. Not sure if I'm doing accidental parenting....

No, not accidental parenting at all. It's totally normal to still have a NF (or even 2) at this age for a BF baby.

Quote from: Robinkvernon on January 31, 2015, 14:09:04 pm

I'm also going to work with his caregiver to increase his morning activity time. So would you say something like this?:
7am Wake & eat
7:30-9:30 activity
9:30-11 sleep

Yes, if she can change it, that looks more appropriate for his age. Overall, maybe you could shoot for something like this...
W/E 7am
A
S 9:30-11am (or 11:30)
E 11am
A
S 1:30/2-3/3:30pm
E 3:30pm
A
E 6:30/6:45pm
S 7/7:15pm

Robinkvernon · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2015, 01:30:06 am »

Caregiver is going to extend activity time and I will keep you posted.

It brought up another question, my caregiver keeps 6 children so can't hold them all at nap time. I asked today and she says if my LO fusses she gives him about 5 minutes to see if he calms down then goes in and puts a hand on his back and reassures him. I don't think she's letting him "cry" (we are 100% against CIO like BW!). Could this have caused some trust issues that could lead to multiple night Wakings at home?

newkidontheblock · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2015, 02:34:23 am »

I don't think so. As Tracy says, S.L.O.W down and listen to your baby, so when he fusses - Stop, Listen, Observe and figure out What's up. If he is just fussing, I would leave him to it to see if he settles. You'll be surprised the number of times I think it won't happen and it eventually does. But if the cries escalate, you should ask her to go in to him immediately.

katie80 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2015, 06:23:20 am »

^^^ I agree!

Robinkvernon · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2015, 17:25:03 pm »

Great advice. And yes, she goes in if it escalates and pats him on the back and tells him she loves him and its just nap time

I'm going to try the same tonight. I probably rush in too soon and don't follow SLOW. Keep you posted!

katie80 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2015, 20:12:01 pm »

Keep us posted!

Robinkvernon · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2015, 00:59:17 am »

Well my update isn't great. We are still all over the place on night Wakings. We've extended activity time but we have from 3pm nursing to 6:45 nursing and 7:15 to go to bed and that may still be too long. He's falling asleep while nursing.
Last night he woke at 9:30??? Then again at 11:45 and 5. My DH can sometimes resettle him but it's work. I did notice last night he woke up because his paci fell out.
Please help. I love my time nursing him but I really need more than 4 hours a time of sleep.

katie80 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 09, 2015, 00:24:03 am »

(((Hugs))) Can you please update us with a current EASY routine and his age? Do you think the paci is a prop... can he replug on his own?

newkidontheblock · « **Reply #12 on:** March 09, 2015, 05:11:24 am »

Yes, do post your routine. Generally for us, wakings soon after bed as well as EWs are OT. You might need to bring BT a bit earlier. We can figure things out once we see your routine

Robinkvernon · « **Reply #13 on:** March 09, 2015, 11:18:55 am »

He will be 7 months old tomorrow. He's a think baby and EBF (except for an occasional bottle at our sitters). We started solids 5 weeks ago.
6:45 wake up/nurse
7-9:15 activity
9:15 nap
11 eat & bottle
11-30-1:15 activity
1:15 nap
3 eat & bottle
3:15-6:00 activity
6 we start getting ready for bed, take a bath, read a book
6:45 nurse
7:15 bed

Last night he woke at 9:30, 12:35 and 5. He nursed and went right back to sleep.

newkidontheblock · « **Reply #14 on:** March 09, 2015, 12:17:25 pm »

Yes, definitely OT, IMO. There are a few changes which might help. His A times are very low for a 7 month old. Although he is napping anyway, it means that your pm nap is ending quite early, leaving a long A to bed and that is where the OT is coming into the picture. Pushing A times should sort this out:)

katie80 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 09, 2015, 14:36:44 pm »

^^^ I agree... start pushing the first two A times toward 3hr by adding 10-15min every few days, so the naps get later and the last A time isn't so long. Shouldn't be too difficult to fix.

Robinkvernon · « **Reply #16 on:** March 09, 2015, 21:16:25 pm »

The latest I can get our sitter to push nap is 1:15 to 1:30. I've told her to let him sleep till 3:30. What are your thoughts on that plus pushing BT up to 7?

newkidontheblock · « **Reply #17 on:** March 10, 2015, 02:52:28 am »

Well, we meant more in terms of increasing his A times and pushing out that 9.15 am nap to later. Then you based on the length of that nap and the gap you need before bed, you do your pm nap, which might end up being shorter

katie80 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 10, 2015, 05:09:56 am »

Quote from: Robinkvernon on March 09, 2015, 21:16:25 pm

The latest I can get our sitter to push nap is 1:15 to 1:30. I've told her to let him sleep till 3:30. What are your thoughts on that plus pushing BT up to 7?

Because of her schedule? Or, what is the restriction? I guess if that's your only option, then I'd do it. 3:30-7pm is a better stretch than 3-7:15.

Robinkvernon · « **Reply #19 on:** March 11, 2015, 15:55:41 pm »

We've pushed the nap to 9:30 and he's dropped one of the wake-ups!!!

Yes, the sitter has all the children nap at 1:15 so I can't go too much off of that. I've moved up the BT to 7 and that seems to help. Now out wake ups are 10ish (early??) and about 1am. Then he sleeps through till 6:30.

I'm getting so frustrated with people saying I need to let him cry. I don't support that and I know you don't either. Should I see if we can settle with PU/PD? I'm seeing some patterns and he wakes up expecting to nurse. Most times he's not hungry (definitely not the 10pm wake up). And suggestions to get rid of the bad habits?

newkidontheblock · « **Reply #20 on:** March 11, 2015, 16:09:06 pm »

Of course you don't want to leave him to cry. That's his only way of communicating and it is so wonderful that you are there for him whenever he needs you. With those pesky people - in one ear, out the other.

1 NF (maybe even 2) is still normal at this point. Have you tried settling him in any other way? You of course could try PU/PD but remember that it will be in the middle of the night & it is so hard to ST at that point. If you feel you can do it, go for it though. I know its late in the game, but have you ever tried dreamfeeding him? I wonder if that will at least help us eliminate hunger as the cause. I'm not sure how advisable it is to try this late though -- Katie? WDYT?

Other than that, all I can say is that if you stick to this routine and slowly keeping upping the A times, at least one of those wakings should stop.

Robinkvernon · « **Reply #21 on:** March 11, 2015, 18:04:13 pm »

I did re-start the DF and did it for about 2 weeks. It caused him to start waking more so I stopped. He is hungry at the 2nd waking but the first is something else.....the last few nights its been a dirty diaper, gas or losing his paci.

I am going to hang tight with the 3 hour A time and see how that works. I will keep you posted and thank you so much! You have no idea how much of a blessing you have been to me as a new mom and your site and the books are my BIBLE!!!

katie80 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2015, 00:19:09 am »

Well, we're glad you've found us!

A couple of thoughts about the 10pm waking... if he's had a dirty diaper and gas a couple nights, you may want to look at the solids he's eating and see if they could be a culprit. If the waking is habitual (within a half hr), you could try wake-to-sleep to see if you can get rid of it. How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods) Or, seeing as it's in the beginning part of the night, you may want to try to resettle. If he's taking good feeds throughout the day and solids are going well, I think you can rule out hunger at that time. I'm assuming he's an independent sleeper at naps and bedtime? I notice you mention he has a paci... does he know how to replug himself? With the right routine, I don't think it would take too many nights of resettling to get rid of that waking.

Robinkvernon · « **Reply #23 on:** March 12, 2015, 01:46:23 am »

And we just had a 9:30 wake up. He stirs awake and when I go in the only way I can settle him is to offer to nurse. He nursed for only a few minutes so I know it's not hunger. But he will cry until he nurses. So should I try to resettle another way? I do think its gas related because he's had some dirty diapers. He is an independent sleeper and can replug his paci.

newkidontheblock · « **Reply #24 on:** March 12, 2015, 02:24:26 am »

Great suggestion from Katie to take a look at his diet, especially the evening meal. Why don't you give Wake to sleep a shot?

katie80 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 12, 2015, 19:50:45 pm »

Do you burp him well at the BT feed? Is he having many gassy foods during the day?

I'd give W2S a try first and if he still wakes up, settle him without feeding. He will definitely cry and be upset for awhile, but that's because he's always been fed and thus expects a feed. If you are consistent in settling him (i.e. not stopping to feed him), I think he will start sleeping through. But, you may want to give the new EASY a few more days and rule out dietary issues, as then he might start sleeping through on his own.

Robinkvernon · « **Reply #26 on:** March 13, 2015, 12:31:01 pm »

We did W2S last night and it worked wonderfully. He only woke twice instead of three times. And I do believe gas is the issue for the two times he woke. He had lots of gas at his 4am waking and then a dirty diaper.

I also did the gentle remove method last night and he slept the whole night without his paci! Major win!! I think we are turning the corner and I am going to W2S and gentle remove for the next week and post my results.

newkidontheblock · « **Reply #27 on:** March 13, 2015, 13:37:34 pm »

Great update. Goodluck for the week ahead!

katie80 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 13, 2015, 14:18:03 pm »

Quote from: newkidontheblock on March 13, 2015, 13:37:34 pm

Great update. Goodluck for the week ahead!

Ditto!! Let us know how it goes! FX

Robinkvernon · « **Reply #29 on:** March 17, 2015, 17:12:26 pm »

So 4 days later and we had 3 nights of 2 NW and last night he woke 3 times (10:30, 12:30 and 4:30). Today I am particularly tired and frustrated.

I am doing the W2S at 9:30 but it hasn't helped the 10:30 wake up. I am going to keep it up for a few more days. And he still wants to nurse every time he wakes up to help himself go back to sleep. I am using the gentle remove and popping him off after his nursing slows.

Just not sure how much longer I can survive on such little sleep. Any other suggestions? If I could just get rid of one wake up I think I would feel so much better.

newkidontheblock · « **Reply #30 on:** March 18, 2015, 15:56:06 pm »

Is there no other way to settle him other than nursing? How about asking DH to go in for a few days? What about the gas? Has it settled?

Robinkvernon · « **Reply #31 on:** March 21, 2015, 14:57:08 pm »

I probably rush to nurse but when I try to settle without nursing he fusses more.

That leads to another issue we uncovered: last night we gave him bottles to see how much he was eating, he had 12 oz in the three times he woke!! Does that mean he's not getting enough during the day?

Should I post that above question on a feeding board? Now I know he is waking bc he is hungry

newkidontheblock · « **Reply #32 on:** March 21, 2015, 15:03:47 pm »

Yes, why not ask there. Although hun, it's a simple solution. Feed more during the day. Is he week established on solids? You could add milk there too- porridge, pudding, milkshakes etc. Also don't accept the amount drink from a bottle as an accurate assessment. They get the milk so fast that they tend to overeat. Anyway, at least you have something to work on

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Author Topic: 6m old, UT or OT?!?! Mulitple night wakings (Read 5487 times)