Author Topic: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?  (Read 7915 times)

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Offline weaver

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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2015, 21:33:52 pm »
No experience with reflux but perhaps it is true of refluxy babies as with others, that they don't necessarily have to be 'awake' to be held upright?  Unless they're uncomfortable, of course.
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline FroggyMom

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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2015, 17:42:02 pm »
Thank you ladies for all of your help and suggestions!  I will be back when I can to update; however, I am in the middle of trying to figure out what to do about DD taking a 38 min nap again today (last 2 days not going so well).  :(  So far, I have not been successful in getting her back to sleep after trying over 30 min.  So, if 38 min is all she does, do I still do the same 2.5-3 hour A time until the next time or shorter? 

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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2015, 18:59:11 pm »
Some people like to shorten the A time slightly after a short nap to prevent OT. There is a risk that by shortening the A time you enter another UT nap, but unlikely so long as you don't shorten the A too much. I would reduce the A by maybe 15 mins but also look at her mood and cues.
hth


Offline FroggyMom

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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2015, 20:51:53 pm »
Thank you so much!  Unfortunately, due to some unforeseen events when we left to pick up DS from school, I was not able to reduce her A time.  In fact, I was not able to get her back home and in bed until she had been awake 3 hr 20 min!!!  Ugh!!!  Everything is okay, but I'm wondering what this is going to do to her nap.  I will definitely try your suggestion in the future when we have short naps though.

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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2015, 21:38:38 pm »
Well, she slept 30 minutes...worst nap yet.  :(  I don't know what to do.  I was about to go in and try to W2S you suggested, but she woke up just before I went in!  She usually wakes up at about 40 minutes but was earlier this time.  She woke up at 8:15 am and has had 2 naps:  38 min and 30 min.  I'm not sure what to do now.  Do I try the shortened awake time by 15 min or is she just so OT now?

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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2015, 12:43:42 pm »
Sorry I wasn't around again yesterday.
I would prob go with 2hr 45 A times as that seemed to give a good nap length looking at previous posts.  If you do shorten the A time don't go too short. Prob 2hr 30.  Look at her cues too though. She might like a full A time even after a short nap, and then a little help to resettle if she doesn't transition.


Offline FroggyMom

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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2015, 20:47:06 pm »
No problem!  I don't know what happened yesterday, but DD's schedule was all messed up with the day of short naps.  I ended up having to let her take a 3rd nap, and she slept for 1 hr 30 min.  I thought maybe I should wake her up after a short catnap, but after short naps all day I knew she must be tired and let her sleep. 

I was going to try a 2 hr. 30 min A time for a few days consistently and see what happened; however, when I signed on, I saw that you noticed 2 hr 45 min gave good naps in past so I decided to try that today.  This has been our day so far:

Wake up:  7:25 am
E:  8:10 am
A: 7:25-10:06 am (2 hr 41 min)
S:  10:06 - 11:48 am (1 hr 42 min; had to go in around 30 min and help her resettle)
E:  12:10 pm
A:  11:48 am - 2:28 pm (2 hr 40 min)
S:  2:28 pm - currently napping

We are having a much better day than yesterday so far!  In my head, I was thinking her naps should be around 2 hours.  However, when I looked at typical amounts of day/night sleep on here, it said 1.5 hours is okay.  What is the average nap time supposed to be for a 6 month old?

I know you have said before that as you extend A time, it is going to push out the time for the next feeding.  But, I am still having a hard time figuring all of this out as it seems she wakes a lot of times when it is time to eat...even if the nap should have been longer.  For example, normally she would go 4 hours between feedings, meaning she would eat again around 4:10 pm.  As she gets better with naps, would i expect her to take a 2 hour nap and sleep until 4:30 pm...even if that means pushing back the feeding.  I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out how to fit all of this into a 12 hour day that I've been trying to do.

If you do shorten the A time don't go too short. Prob 2hr 30.  Look at her cues too though. She might like a full A time even after a short nap, and then a little help to resettle if she doesn't transition.
Thank you so much for telling me this because I thought she couldn't do any more than about 2 hours A time after a short nap.  I will look at her cues and keep this in mind next time.


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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2015, 21:11:13 pm »
I'm starting to feel like I'm at my wits end with 30-45 min naps!!!  After the 2 hr 40 min A time produced a longer nap this morning, she just slept 33 min this afternoon.  :(   I don't even know what to do now.  She woke up at 7:30 am, so I guess a good bedtime today would be 7:30 pm.  However, she can't stay up from 3-7:30 pm on the naps we've had today can she?  What do I do?

Also, is there some kind of nap sleep regression at 6 months?  Haha!  She has continued to sleep fine through the night (thank goodness), but her naps have gone horribly now!  Ugh!!!

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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2015, 21:33:02 pm »
I don't understand why she only slept 30 min and won't go back to sleep because she acts soooo tired!  I have tried for awhile now to get her to go back to sleep.  When I got her up, she just rubs eyes like she does when tired.  So, I just laid her back down in bed to see if she would go back to sleep on her own.  She always falls asleep independently...usually in under 5 minutes for naps/BT.  Ssh/pat seemed okay when she was younger at times; however, now I feel like it just stimulates her when I am in the room at all.  That is why I have hesitated thus far to try the W2S.  I feel like she has a better chance of putting herself back to sleep than going back to sleep if I'm in there trying to help her.  So, where do I go from here in trying to get rid of the short nap?  Do, I keep trying sshh/pat when wakes...W2S...something different?  Is there any other method for babies who seem to just be more stimulated by your presence?  Sorry so many questions!  The short naps are making me SOOO exhausted, and I just can't get anything else done!  Whew!

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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2015, 10:20:15 am »
Hugs. I know it can be frustrating and feel like you don't know what to do.

I think we are in different time zones so I'm afraid I'm unable to respond quickly when you post.  Just keep telling yourself you will get through this.  Rest when you can x

OK. I think you might be putting her down a little too soon. Fear of OT is one of the things that gets many of us in a tizz when tweaking routines and can lead to a series of UT naps. Honestly I'd choose OT over UT any day of the week, been there with a grumpy baby who was tired but not tired enough to sleep, or stay asleep, it's not pretty.
If you look back at the start of the thread, your first post and my first response, she had a 3hr A time in the afternoon.  I suggested keeping that at 3 hrs, you have tried shorter A times and getting shorter naps I'd suggest going back to the 3hr afternoon A time.
So a plan:
WU
First A 2hr 45 - resettle if needed (btw the 30 min WU where you helped her resettle can be UT, it is very hard to tell by times alone but don't automatically assume OT on that re-settle, okay?)
Nap 1 - hopefully 1hr 30
Second A 3hr - shorten to 2hr 45 if first nap was less than 1hr 30 - resettle if needed
Nap 2 - hopefully 1hr 30 to 2hr
Third A - 2hr 45 to 3hrs
BT. BT may be a bit early if the naps have not been great. It is normal to need EBT when nap dropping.

In a couple of days you may be able to extend that first A time up to 3hrs.  To be comfortably on 2 naps you would need to be very close to 3hr A time and 1.5hr naps. If naps are longer she may be able to keep the slightly shorter first and last A if she prefers them.
If you get very short naps and cannot re-settle give a third CN, you might cap it to maintain a relatively good A time to BT and stay on track (rather than long nap, long A then late BT).

EBT - can be your friend in nap drop. In the example you gave of yesterday she woke at 3pm how to get to BT, either a short CN or EBT of 6pm (this is a 3hr A time).  She may sleep over night 13hrs to make up for the lost sleep the day before.  It's always handy to know how your LO responds to EBT anyway.

This is a typical time for sleep disturbance because LO are nap dropping. A times increase rapidly at this age and as I said before fear of OT is likely to be your enemy. Trust that she *can* do longer naps when she is good and tired.

You asked about nap length. LOs have a sleep cycle of (usually) 40 or 45 mins. Generally I see those with a cycle length of 45 mins doing 2 cycles so a 1.5hr nap. Those with a 40 min cycle (my DS) do 3 cycles so a 2hr nap. They wake naturally at the end of a cycle. Either is fine.

If you feel your presence is too stimulating and she is calm you can leave her, I always said to mine "I'll go now so you can sleep properly, call if you need me". If she's crying though you need to return. This may sound a little unusual but I've been known to (more than once) apologise to my DS for being there "I'm sorry, I know you don't really want me here but I can't leave you upset on your own.  If you can be calm when I go then I'll leave you to go to sleep but if you are crying I need to come back, I can't leave you alone like that."
When I am in with him I may have a hand on him, still and firm, or stroking, or I may just sit nearby and repeat a key phrase for reassurance.  It really depends on how upset he is or what the problem is.  Remember your presence is to maintain the bond of trust, so she knows you are there and she is safe, if shush/pat or something else helps her to calm and sleep then great, if not then remember it is not your job to *make* her sleep, only to be there for her during her struggles.  I hope this helps.


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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2015, 20:47:50 pm »
I think we are in different time zones so I'm afraid I'm unable to respond quickly when you post.  Just keep telling yourself you will get through this.  Rest when you can x

No problem!  I just appreciate your help!  :)

So, I think I have figured out a major thing that has been affecting DD's naps...teething!  There have been times off an on for 2 months or so I thought she was teething, but no teeth ever pushed through.  She was been fussy and cranky and nothing would make her happy past few days.  This morning I saw 2 teeth that broke through on the bottom!  However, I thought once they finally broke through the pain/fussiness stopped but she has been fussy all day still.  :(  Do you think this is the cause of the 40 min nap?

Thank you for laying out an EASY plan for me to try!  I am trying to work on getting her to your plan.  She had an A time of 2 hr 43 min this morning, but only slept 40 min or so still.  :(  I tried to push her to 2 hr 45 min again this afternoon, but she has been so fussy and irritable...think due to teething because she acts like she is hurting as well :(   I think her afternoon A time was 2 hr. 37 min., and she is currently sleeping...so we shall see...

If you get very short naps and cannot re-settle give a third CN, you might cap it to maintain a relatively good A time to BT and stay on track (rather than long nap, long A then late BT).

Yes, this is what I ended up doing last night...a CN.  She slept about an hour and woke up on her on.  What do you suggest capping it at?  30 min?  45?  1 hour?


This is a typical time for sleep disturbance because LO are nap dropping. A times increase rapidly at this age and as I said before fear of OT is likely to be your enemy. Trust that she *can* do longer naps when she is good and tired.

Yes, I am definitely falling into the worry of the OT baby trap...haha!  I am trying to push her to longer awake times still, but I do feel like I'm having a hard time telling when she is OT versus UT.


If you feel your presence is too stimulating and she is calm you can leave her, I always said to mine "I'll go now so you can sleep properly, call if you need me". If she's crying though you need to return. This may sound a little unusual but I've been known to (more than once) apologise to my DS for being there "I'm sorry, I know you don't really want me here but I can't leave you upset on your own.  If you can be calm when I go then I'll leave you to go to sleep but if you are crying I need to come back, I can't leave you alone like that."

Thank you so much for this suggestion!  I am definitely going to use it!  :)



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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2015, 09:01:09 am »
Well teething is the pits!  The teeth will still be moving even after they have cut through and other teeth may be on the move too, it isn't just the cutting which hurts.  Teething will often disturb sleep but LOs can also be more tired when teething, you might have days where you are totally off routine but on the whole you can still move forward with gentle routine changes etc, especially as you are not 'sleep training' but tweaking nap times.

CN length depends really on how long an A she likes before BT and now close to BT she starts to nap. 30 min may be enough...and it may be that you go right into the BT routine as soon as she wakes.  There were occasions with mine I let him sleep though (when badly teething or ill) but then I'd prepare myself for a possible BT refusal, late BT and lots of night wakes.

Yes teething can cause WUs at 40 mins as they feel the pain during the light phase of sleep which brings them fully awake instead of transitioning, but it also looks like you need to get her as close to 3hrs on the a time as you can so you can settle into 2 decent naps without this dragging on too long.  You might like to try some meds before nap time to see if it helps keep the teething pain down so she can transition more easily (you might not be able to do this for both naps if you also want to reserve a dose for night time).


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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2015, 16:29:14 pm »
Sorry it's been awhile since I posted!  I will be back when I have more time to respond, but DD is waking up from another dreaded 30 min nap.  She doesn't even make it to 40 or 45 min anymore when she does a short nap...just 30 now. :(  I feel like I've tried everything now and have no idea what to do. Her two teeth came through, and I don't think it's teething pain anymore. She is now starting to wake up at night as well several times a night needing to be resettled. :(  I just don't know what to do....

I've tried to resettle her and going in before she's awake...I just can't seem to get her past these awful naps. Does this normally take awhile?  She has just started solids as well.  Could this make a difference?

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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2015, 17:00:40 pm »
Also how long do you spend trying to get her back to sleep?  With DD, I can tell by how she first responds whether it is going to work.  She either goes right back to sleep...or once fully awake and rolling over on her back I know that it is not going to work and let her up after a short time of trying. I just decided to stick it out and stayed with her 40 min. There were a couple times her eyes got drowsy, and I thought she may go back to sleep, but she would just get angry again. She just cried and cried while I stayed with her trying to help the whole time. It was rough on us both, and I have a son who I also need to take care of so I can't always spend that much time if there with her. What is reasonable?  Or if I can tell it's not going to work do I just let her up and try at next nap time?

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Re: 45 minute naps...Am I ready for the 3-2 nap transition?
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2015, 20:12:14 pm »
Nap dropping can be difficult and can take a while to settle properly into a new routine, yes.
As you have another child to care for then you just need to do what you can do. It sounds like you know if she's going to go back to sleep or not - I've had similar with mine too, where I know he just isn't going to settle back down. I also had a time (during the 2-1) when I knew I needed to really stick at it and make him sleep, he screamed blue murder whilst I held him, pretty awful but eventually he'd go back off and get a decent nap.  Each nap drop can be different.

When are the NWs?
Do you want to post yesterday/today's EAS times for me to have a look?