2.5 year old screaming NWs

[Buntybear]

That is a really good nights sleep! Well done!

[MommyMoulton]

Well it was a one off for sure. We are back to a few NWs each night. I'm still giving meds at bedtime. Feels pointless though. still doing EBT at 7pm but may push it back to 645pm as maybe it could be some OT still. But hard to get her in bed by then because of her siblings bedtimes etc

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs MM.
Here is what we have done with T and it has helped a lot but things are not perfect. Some evenings we still have grizzling and have to go in, and some NW sometimes but overall this is working the best so far for us all.

At bt explain the routine before it starts ie, we will brush teeth, read 3 books, then have cuddles, turn off light and into bed. We also explained the first few nights we won't be picking you up (this had become our biggest crutch) but always come if you need us.
Then we did WI/WO. Offered water or retrieved paci if needed.
At NW we give water and pain meds if needed, then if we know he is ok we say lie down and back to sleep. Surprisingly this has actually worked well after a few days. (A month ago it didn't!)

At the same time we adjusted his routine so his nap was 1 hr. Bt and WU are approx 7.15 and 7 respectively.

If she is nap dropped I honestly think she probably only needs a 11.5 hr day at such a young age...but I know it could well be impossible to do that with others to consider x

[MommyMoulton]

Sara. I agree that her day is too long with having dropped her nap. I have said as much to DH. But with my other two it's hard to get her down earlier than 7 bc we only usually finish supper around 615. And still have to bath and clean up toys etc.

I'm gonna try harder to stick to it. She does sleep better in nights when she has had her bedtime meds. But when she does wake...regardless of the time her NWs are very loud and once one happens there is always at least 3/4 more. It's never just one. If it was one and she was easy to go back down then I probabu wouldn't complain. On nights she she doesn't get bedtime meds she doesny NWs till much earlier in the am (like 2/3am) but unless I guve meds then she is up and down not be visiting loud but disturbing enough to wake and disrupt her baby sisters sleep.

[ZacsMumme]

Given the meds help it does sound like teething is at least contributing to the NW.
Proudly you skip bath every few days and just give her EBT to catch up on those days? Hugs it's so hard

[MommyMoulton]

I stuck to EBT at 650. Had only 1-2 NWs. Still don't know what's up. I'm afraid it's probably a habit now. Plus now she EWs about 45 min earlier than her usual wake up. Frankly Im at my whits end.

[Buttonbobs]

What is her EAS looking like now?

What methods are you using to help her settle when she's awake at night?

[MommyMoulton]

WU 7
E 815
E 1130
Rest time 115-215
E 330
E 530
Bath 615
BT 650

At NWs I go in tell her that mommy is sleeping that it's nighttime. Tell her to have a drink of water and go back to sleep. Cover her back on blankets and leave the room.
She typically has 2-6 NWs per night, never at the same time.

[*Ali*]

I still think it is a cry for attention as a result of the insecurities she must be feeling at the arrival of little sister. So I would attend to her to maintain the bond of trust but I would minimise the interaction. Maybe try not talking at all and just handing her the water, covering her up and leaving? That is what I did/do with Colby if he has NWs.

[*Liz*]

How is she when she wakes? Is she crying or calling for you? We have had a terrible time of NWing with DD as a preschooler rather than a baby. She basically suffers with night terrors due to OT/OS. Some are completely 'classical' others are milder and harder to work out. Main thing is that she doesn't really calm or settle in response to anything I say or do. Just carries on until the episode ends.

Things that help include love and happiness at bedtime. If she goes to bed after we have been firm or had a argumentative  mealtime then she is more likely to wake. We are very careful about what TV she sees before bed as this can upset her. Also ensuring she doesn't get hot in bed helps a lot - she often takes her nightclothes off now she is older and able. We reduced the weight of her duvet at one point and the radiator is switched off in her room.

We had a dreadful run when she first started school, and we did get quite a few bad nights after DS2 was born, especially when DH was working away and Thomas was poorly. She is settling again now.

Night wakings in an independent older child are hard as they have more complicated needs. It isn't as simple as OT/ teeth anymore. They are little people who once awake have fears and thoughts and feelings.

We do sometimes allow her to get in bed with one of us now after a very bad night. She settles and we all get some sleep, plus it isn't habit forming anymore as it simply fulfils a need at that moment in time. One of us takes her to the spare room, although that is about to become Thomas's room, so we will need to rethink what we do  .

Sorry it's been bad. DS1 was dreadful with teeth and NWings when DD was born and I was shattered. He never wakes now though... Since turning 4 he has been perfect  (his party trick is EWing though, but at age 6.5 I think he is finally outgrowing that as well  ).

Like I say - older kids sleep is still tough hey? And whilst night time parenting is not my forte I do try my hardest to deal with it properly these days.

[ZacsMumme]

Honestly IIWM id be doing bt at 6pm. I think she is just OT now, possibly teething but if your going pain meds etc and she is still waking a lot then its probably not that. I KNOW its a pain but on the upside once she is down its easier with less kids to deal with later on

Only other things to consider with that many NW in a previously well sleeping fodder is SA/anxiety or discomfort. Have you ruled out any kind of digestive pain i.e. intolerance's or constipation?

(posted but it didn't go through so sorry I haven't read the other ladies posts )

[Khalam's Mama]

I agree with early bedtime. When k dropped his nap around that age he went from 10 hr nights with a short nap to 14 hr nights 6pm till 8am. If I put him down at 7pm he would nw and ew. It did mean I had to move dinner to 4pm and not have it all together but it only lasted 6m or so and was much more pleasant to have a sttn and well rested child.
good luck.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi MM,

NW are the worst and I can imagine that you are feeling pretty exhausted now. I understand to an extent how you feel WRT thinking she is old enough to 'know better' I have BT myself in those thoughts. However I have tried to remind myself that as we see our LO's grow from a baby to a toddler, it can be easy to believe they can 'help' these things, but the reality of it is she is little more than a baby herself at just 2.5. It does sound like there is a lot of things in the mix for her, as well as for you, 3 LO's of the ages yours are is a lot for any Mammy to deal with, especially with them all needing different things, and being at different developmental stages. I do think it probably has a lot to do with the new baby coming along and also that every time another child joins the family the dynamic changes and the attention you are able to give becomes less. Of course she will benefit greatly as they all grow up together but for now it's hard. I have only 1 DS, so please don't think I am proclaiming to be an expert here, I only know how hard 1 child's developmental issues can be, so I sympathise.

So I wonder if re-assurance and lots of praise and love from Mammy during the waking hours could be the answer. Remind her she is the big Sister now, and how well she is doing. Tell her you know how well she can sleep, and maybe start a reward jar, chart if she STTN. As hard as it is, I do believe you need to go to her when she wakes, of course you can keep the interaction to a minimum, just tell her "It's still sleepy time Darling'" and give her a kiss, which will hopefully be enough to re-assure her and keep the disruption to a minimum for the others. Also, have you heard about 'sleep talk'  I have used it with great success with DS as have many other BW  You go into her sleeping between 1 and 2 hours after going over, and use a 'speech' to help her with what she is struggling with. If you would like to know more, I could write you a speech and you could give it a try. If she is struggling with the changes, it could really help, and it only takes a minute each night 

I know that for many of us 'our ideals' when we become a parent can become blurred, and we go down roads that we would rather not need to go down, but tiredness and frustration blur our vision, it is hard, really hard. I post on here so much for all kinds of issues, and very often it takes another BW to help me to see things clearly, because I can't see the wood for the trees. I always try and take it on the chin, even when it is something I don't want to hear. I think about Tracy's ethos and what she would have advised me to do, because this site is her legacy and as moderators we all do that in order to honour her memory, we simply can't and don't advise on any methods we know she would have disagreed with.

Here is the link for the sleep talk thread on here, you could maybe have a look through and see if it is something you would like to try.

((HUGS)) I'm sure we can help you through this.

Vicki.x.

Anyone want to talk about Sleep Talk?