4 hour schedule - confused with total number of sleep hours

[Nilsli]

Hello!
I am new to EASY and I am a bit confused with what the idea is for number of total hours of sleep (in 24 hours) in the schedules.

For instance in the 4 hour EASY which I will try to implement (my LO is 4 months):

The nap time is 2 x 2 hours, and catnap of about 45 min. So total nap time 4 hours- 45 min.
Night time is scheduled 7. 30 pm- 7 am. So 11,5 hours.

Is the idea that the baby will sleep all these 11,5 hours in an "ideal world"? If so, the total sleep is about 16 hours/ day.
Is this right?
My LO is sleeping 14 hours on average right now. So I am not sure if I shall schedule for 14 hours? If so, shall I decrease nap time or night time, or just try to make him sleep 16 hours?!

Input is VERY WELCOME!!

THANKS!!
 

[jessmum46]

Yes the ideal world textbook EASY expects a lot of sleep!  Many mums here find that their LOs don't need that much and have to adjust to accommodate that.  I would just work on finding a good A time to give you a good 1.5h+ nap in the morning, another in the afternoon, and then a catnap of whatever length is needed to get to bedtime.  Often it feels like a 23h day would work better!  But if you want to post what's happening now we'd be happy to help you make some adjustments x

[Nilsli]

Thanks very much for your suggestion!
Yesterday his naps were exactly like the book. I did not wake him up and he slept 2 h in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon and 45 min catnap.... But night was awful! He woke up way more than usual.  And wanted to get up at 4 am (early waking is normal unfortunately...
Today I will see if he sleeps shorter naps.
Shall I wake him up from naps if he sleeps too long?

[jessmum46]

Generally I wouldn't wake from naps at this age unless it's feed time, it's the catnap (meant to be short) or its affecting bedtime or nights.  I would probably stick with the pattern for a few days before seeing if you need to make changes.  If you want to keep track and post here we'd be happy to take a look

[Nilsli]

Hello again

So, it seems like his naps and thereby eating are all over the place now. I believe it is the "famous 4 months sleep regression"?!?!?!

But I am lost how the routine/ "schedule" should be handled. I read in the book that it is a "routine" of E-A-S and not a "schedule". And that as soon as they wake up, they should eat. But then it says that the "4 hour routine" and if they wake early, you should wait until it is feed time.

- When my LO is waking early from nap, shall I then have an activity until 4 hours is over and time to eat?? Then it will be S-A-E-A-S. If he wakes up after 1 hour, he can be awake for max 2 hours, but then it is 3 hour EASY all of the sudden...
- How to handle the early waking. Shall I try to put him to bed? I don't do PU/PD yet


Our desired night time is 6.30-7 pm- 6 am.

Example of Friday
EAT: Early wake at 5 am- I nursed and tried to resettle him. Not possible.
A
S 06:40. Tried to keep him awake but rubbing eyes and were cranky. Slept 1:15 h

08:00 Activity
08:30 Eat
09:40 Sleep (again- rubbing eyes and cranky early so put to bed earlier). Slept 1.25

Eat 11:15
A
S 1 pm (in stroller), slept 30 min, woke up 20 min in stroller, slept another hour after in stroller. Slept total 1.30

E 3 pm
A
S 5.30 Daddy tried to put to cat nap at 5 pm, but did not manage. Think baby was hungry. I fed, and he slept 30 min

E 6 pm
A
S for the night 7.30 pm.

Slept 5 h+ 2.40 h+ 1.20 h in night= 9 hours in total. He nurses every time. About 5- 15 min each time. So it is difficult to say if hungry or snacking
Day time sleep: 4 h 40 min

It would be great to get advice how to think about the "routine" if I shall always stick to 4 hours between each feed? It is tricky as he cannot be awake more than 2 hours.

Thank you!!

[jessmum46]

It's fine to do an AEAS pattern sometimes, when LO is short-napping that's pretty much all you can do!  I would aim to keep feeds roughly 4h apart but if LO is clearly going to need a nap when feed is due then feed a bit early, 15-30 mins or so. 

At this age if you are getting reasonable naps then it's good to work towards only having 3 of them in the day.  To do that you will need to gently push A times though.  Naps in the 50 mins to 1h25 range can often be UT and suggest a little A time push is in order.  You had A times of 1h40-45 in the morning on that day you posted - maybe keep one eye on the clock and try to push that another 10 mins and see if that gets you some better naps? 

[Nilsli]

Hi and thank you!!

I will try to push A time and keep a 4 h feed and see how it goes Thanks!!

[Nilsli]

Hello again

What do you think I shall do with the EW? It messes up the whole day! If he wakes up at 5 am, it is impossible to keep him to 7 pm with only 2 naps+ CN.

This morning he was in his bed until 05.30 "talking to himself" and then I took him up at 05.30 when he started to cry, to change nappy and feed. But his day started already at 5 am!  Usually it takes 1,5- 2 hours to get him back to sleep after this 5 am waking

Example of what today may look like:

05.00   Wake up (A+E time 2 h)
07.00   Sleep (1,5 h)
   
08.30   Wake up (A+E time 2 h)
10.30   Sleep (1,5 h)
   
12.00   Wake up (A+E time 2 h)
02.00 pm   Sleep (1,5 h)
   
03.30   Wake up
06.00 pm  Sleep for the night

What do you think?! As we want to have a 6 am start of the day, 5 am is not far from it, but still too early!

THANKS!!

[jessmum46]

With a 5am WU (or any WU less than about 10-5.11h total night sleep) I would treat as a NW and try to resettle until a reasonable hour.  Would he go back off after a feed?  If not then you may just have to accept he's had enough sleep, get up, work on getting A times right and then slowly push the routine forwards 5-10 mins every day or two until you get to where you want to be.  Or you can keep 4 naps a bit longer but make sure the last one is a very short CN and hope for a later WU to be able to do 3 naps x

[Nilsli]

Hello!
Thanks a lot for your reply !

He goes back down after EW, but it normally takes 90 minutes, so it is like another  "EASY cycle". He always poops in the morning around 4.30-5 am and it is like his system starts and he starts chatting and won't get back down from nursing. But I will not get up with him at this time, 5 am, but continue trying to get him to sleep even though it takes 90 min, right?

This morning he woke up 04.50 (wakes up, chats to himself in the crib, poops, chats, start to cry when I don't take him up, I change nappy, he chats even more and is very happy, nurse, try to put down, cry, pick up, rock, put down, cry, nurse etc) and I managed to get him back 6.10. And then he slept 30 min and then our day started...
Last night he went to bed 7.30 pm, woke up midnight (10 min feed), woke up at 3 am (5 min feed) and then 04.50, awake 80 min and then slept 30 min more.
I have tried DF but i don't think he sleeps longer by it. Rather the opposite. Maybe I do it wrong.
So total hours of night sleep: 9,25 h from 7.30 am- 6.45.

Do you think the early wakings can be due to OT in evening?
How long is usually optimal time between last nap and night sleep time? Right now we have about 2-2,5 h. Maybe he is OT but he is always a bit "nervous" in the eve and eats a lot. Don't know.

Thanks again !!

[jessmum46]

Yes the EWs could be due to OT, I would maybe give some thought to pulling in BT a bit earlier for a while.  Unfortunately there is no one size fits all answer to how long a last A should be, it depends on what's happened the rest of the day and how long naps were etc.  On a 'standard' 4h EASY with two long naps and a 30-40 min catnap the last A might be around 1h30-45 after the catnap, whereas it may be more like 2h the rest of the day.