Author Topic: 10.5 Month Old - Missing the nap window?  (Read 1227 times)

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Offline calgal22002

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10.5 Month Old - Missing the nap window?
« on: February 17, 2015, 19:56:31 pm »
10.5 month old DD has always had high sleep needs.

A typical day is:
8:30/9:00 WU
E
A
E
A
11:30/12:00 nap (though this is where it gets messy)
1:30/2:00 wake up
E
A
4:30 nap (sometimes)
5:30 wake up
E
7:30 bedtime/bath/bottle

She is doing a weird 2-1 nap transition these days (some days she has 2 naps and some days she has 1). I posted on the NW forum because her night sleep went crazy in the last month. They suggested I work on extending her A times. I have been trying, but the outcome is all over the map. Most days she is acting tired 2.5 hours after wake up, but I try to keep her up for 3.5 hours. Then when she is really droopy around the 3.5 hour mark, I decide to give in to the nap and finally try to put her down. Suddenly she gets a burst of energy and is giddy. Then I spend the next 30-45 minutes going in, putting her back down, telling her it is time for a nap and repeating the process over and over. Then she falls asleep out of exhaustion, not in a great position and not always for a long sleep at about the 4/4.25 hour mark after she wakes up (which is the goal ultimately, I think). I just can't figure out if I should only try to put her down at 3.5 hours or not. It is so hard to keep her up that long (if we are driving, she will zonk out for example).

Then depending on how long the 1st  nap was, we either get a 2nd nap or not, based on the how late it is relative to bedtime. So for example, if she wakes from her 1st nap at 1:30, I try to put her down for a nap at 5:00 or so, but it only works 50% of the time. If I try to put her down at 4:00, often she will sleep, but not if I aim for 4 hour A times. For example, yesterday I went out and DH was home. I told him to wait 3.5 hours after she woke to put her down for a 2nd nap. He decided she was tired at 2.5 hours, and she fell asleep with zero effort on his part, not even a peep from her and she never even tried to stand up so he didn't have to go and resettle her (this was from 4:00-5:00 after she napped from 11:30-1:30 earlier). Yesterday her night sleep was fine as well.

So now I am confused - if I let her nap at the time she first exhibits sleepiness, she would be napping at 2.5 hours from wakeup, and she would fall asleep with little effort. If I wait 3.5+ hours, it is a mess and takes a long time to get her to sleep.  Plus, when she only falls asleep 4 hours after wake up, there is limited time for a 2nd nap, which makes her cranky around dinner time and we have to put her to bed by 6:30. The ladies on the NW forum suggested I aim for a short and a long nap (so 1.5 hours in the morning and 45 minutes in the afternoon for example). I am not sure if that will work as by the time she falls asleep FINALLY after the 4 hour mark, she can sometimes pull off a 2.5 hour nap from being so tired.

Offline Kellyjs

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Re: 10.5 Month Old - Missing the nap window?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 11:41:38 am »
Isn't that always the way hun? The DH's get involved and wonder what all the fuss is about  ::)

You may find if she's HSN that she might not be ready for a shorter last nap then. It's all trail and error really. HSN LO's might not want to go to one nap until closer around the 18mo mark. I might be tempted to try the routine you had yesterday when the night went well for 3 days and see how she fares. Worst case scenario is that she was slightly OT before and that was her catch up day and the NW's come back, or else that's the pattern/routine she wants for now. Tbh that was quite a lot of day sleep, so I'm thinking the former option, but we can only try and see? Wdyt?



Offline calgal22002

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Re: 10.5 Month Old - Missing the nap window?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 12:50:32 pm »
Thanks for the reply. So, do you think I should aim for a 4 hour A time or a 2.5 hour A time? Yesterday was a 1 nap day and the night has been lousy too. I think one of our issues is the late WU in the morning, but I would hate to change it :). It just doesn't leave enough hours in the day for her to have 2 naps and she has never really stayed up past 8pm. Of course she starts daycare in a few months so we will have to move WU to 6:30!? Do you think that might be part of the issue? If she were waking up at 6:30, her first nap would be closer to 10:30 and her second nap would be around 2:30. Is she currently just trading night sleep for day sleep?

Offline katie80

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Re: 10.5 Month Old - Missing the nap window?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 15:26:12 pm »
Hi there, you've gotten great advice from Kelly, just thought I'd hop on and share my experience as my DS1 is on the HSN side.

At 10/11mo, he was doing something like this...
WU 7/7:30
Nap 1 10:30-12
Nap 2 3:30-4:30
BT 7:30

At 12/13mo, we switched the shorter nap to the morning, so it was more like this...
WU 7/7:30
Nap 1 10:20-11:00
Nap 2 2:00-3:30
BT 7:30

I then cut the morning nap to 30min and eventually 20min and he switched to one nap around 16mo.

So, do you think I should aim for a 4 hour A time or a 2.5 hour A time?
I think I'd aim for somewhere around 3-3.5hr. In your initial EASY, she was doing 3hr well. I think the only reason she's looking tired at 2.5hr is because she's switching back and forth between one and two nap days and isn't as settled and more tired. 

. I think one of our issues is the late WU in the morning, but I would hate to change it :). It just doesn't leave enough hours in the day for her to have 2 naps and she has never really stayed up past 8pm. Of course she starts daycare in a few months so we will have to move WU to 6:30!? Do you think that might be part of the issue? If she were waking up at 6:30, her first nap would be closer to 10:30 and her second nap would be around 2:30. Is she currently just trading night sleep for day sleep?
I think this is part of the issue as well.  If she's having two long naps in the day, she likely needs at least a 12-13hr day, that could be why he he started NWing in the first place. If WU is going to have to move soon, I might start working on that now, gradually moving from 8:30 to 8, then 7:30, then 7, etc. It will likely be quite a shock to her if all of a sudden you're waking her at 6:30, when she's used to sleeping til 8:30/9. :-\



Offline calgal22002

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Re: 10.5 Month Old - Missing the nap window?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2015, 05:40:19 am »
Today's update:

8:30 Wake up
11:30 Nap (and that was pushing it - we had a rough-ish night and both she and I were in lousy moods by 11:30). She settled down with no antics and was out in under 5 minutes.
1:45 Wake Up
4:45-5:00 attempt at 2nd nap... no go (she was practically asleep in the car around 4:00 though)
6:45 Bedtime
She woke up 2-3 times between 7:00 and 8:30 and was in a foul mood (likely thinking it was a nap, not bedtime). DH was home with her, so he tried to resettle her and finally had to leave her for a 5 minute cry/complain session and she zonked out.

So, still not much luck on the 2nd nap, but at least she was happy and quick to fall asleep at the first nap. In an ideal world, I wish she would nap at 11:00 and at 4:00 and then be able to stay up to 8/8:30, but that seems like it's not happening these days. I think I will work on waking her a bit earlier and seeing if that gets her naps to a more reasonable time. We are travelling next week and dealing with a 2 hour time zone difference, so that will be interesting too.

Offline katie80

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Re: 10.5 Month Old - Missing the nap window?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2015, 20:10:37 pm »
I think the morning nap is just too long after a short A time to get a second nap. :-\ If you're trying for more than one nap, none of them should really be longer than 2hr.  I think if you want the second nap, you need to either cut the first nap to 1.5hr or do a switch and do the shorter nap in the morning. If she continues to refuse the second nap, then you need to gradually push the first one later, so that her day isn't so unbalanced (leading to the OT wakeups right after bed and making her so tired in the morning as well).

DH was home with her, so he tried to resettle her and finally had to leave her for a 5 minute cry/complain session and she zonked out.
I'm not sure if this was just mantra crying/fussing, but at any age, Tracy Hogg (the original Baby Whisperer) did not condone leaving a LO to cry for any amount of time.  She woke up because she was OT going to bed. If your presence is too stimulating for her to resettle, then you can sit outside her door and speak to her, but she shouldn't just be left.



Offline calgal22002

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Re: 10.5 Month Old - Missing the nap window?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2015, 20:32:05 pm »
Today has been an exact repeat of yesterday, but I totally understand the imbalance problem! I will work on it.

I don't think she was crying hard (based on how DH described it) :)