Some guidance, please

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

We get random SA here and there, sometimes it can be a one off. The thing with capping the nap is that the idea is to push it a bit later, cap it, bring the catnap a bit earlier (because of the shorter am nap then usually they would be ready to nap sooner - 25 min could be ot) and eventually the catnap will be unnecessary. How did the SA manifest itself when she was smaller?

The thing you want to avoid if possible is the ut/ot loop...as in they start waking due to ut and then get ot because of it yet still need the routine tweaked. Sometimes it means dealing with keeping a cranky lo up for a bit longer A time in order to get things settled.

[newkidontheblock]

The SA period was pretty rough. Again, it only manifested at BT but I could simply not settle her. At that point it was PU-hold for a bit- PD -hand but I would be doing it for ages and still she wouldn't settle, whereas it would take DH roughly 3-5 minutes. It ended one day when I decided to re-nurse her. I put the lights on, nursed her for a bit, then re-did BT routine and that's it - she slept off just fine, and it continued that way.

The thing with capping the nap is that the idea is to push it a bit later, cap it, bring the catnap a bit earlier

Okay, so if I understand this, you are saying to increase the morning A and then cap it too? I don't know if this will work since she is falling asleep during the wind down itself (which she has never done before) Capping the nap makes sense with a 2 hour nap. But if she is waking after 1.15 /1.20 anyway, then how do I go about it? And if 25 minutes is OT, then a push at that time also is out of the question. Argh..what is going on!

I wanted to also mention when this transition started, she was consistently doing a 2 hour morning nap but now it is anywhere between 1.15 to 2 hours. It seems like everything has been affected - could it simply be developmental?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

25 min could be ot...it may not be for her. How did she wake from that nap? The 2-1 can be a pretty tough transition and if teething ordevelopmental stuff or growth spurts come at the same time it is kind of hard to know what the source is. Honestly that is the reason I tend to do things cold turkey, because trying to figure out the why was impossible so I just acted and waited to see how things settled out (sometimes unintentionally - DD1 did the 2-1 while we were on holidays, it just made sense to match her day to my nephew's so my sister & I could get out more).

The only reason I suggest pushing the morning A a bit is to see if she self soothes for that nap, and then to keep a catnap you might have to cap the am nap as if she has a two hour nap after a longer morning the catnap may be refused. Though you did say she has done long nights before? Makes me wonder if you tried one nap and an ebt would she tack on to her night...

[newkidontheblock]

She is still settling independently for the morning nap. The only time she is doing it consistently. She has not needed help in ages.

I hear you on going cold turkey and pulling bedtime ahead. But even for that the nap would have to end by 1 , at the very least. I think what you said about being able to handle 4.5 A makes sense. We'll be there soon and now I know how to proceed.

Do you think that we have might have reached a point where instead of shortening the day, I should be lengthening it? Right now as I see it, she is fine after nap 1 but can handle a longer A before CN and then wants to stay up longer before bed but is so tired, so she is fighting it? So that's when the UT/OT loop is happening. We had a waking earlier than usual today also.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Lengthening the day during the 2-1 is pretty common, during that point where you are at where they aren't quite ready for one nap but two naps doesn't fit into a 12 hr day anymore due to A times. Oh good that that nap is self settled then...tbh I always used apop for DD3's catnap (and the older kids too) as it was easier! In that case I would push bedtime a bit (even try 15 min) and see if that helps. Maybe add in something quiet like a few stories or something to keep her going.

[newkidontheblock]

Talk about a long day. Today nap 1 ended at 12, so the next nap was due at 4. Since that finally gave me time, I tried to get her down in the crib. After 30 minutes I decided to just hold her, but she was done. I tried everything - went out for 10 minutes & tried again, nursed, sling, tried again in 30 minutes..finally 2.5 hours later, I got her down. BT was 8 today. Wunderbar! At least she slept off independently, which just reinforces my belief that she needs to be more tired for bed. Struggling to find that balance between more tired & too tired.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Personally with that kind of a nap refusal I would have not bothered and done an ebt! That is actually why we dropped to one nap with our E, even apop did not get her napping. Though in our case it worked for her and made it simpler to juggle naptime with older kids.

How long was the first nap? Could she have done the catnap any sooner do you think or was the refusal more of an ut thing?

[newkidontheblock]

But yours would have gone down after being up for 5 hours? E would have been a mess and we would get OT wakings. That's why I kept trying. In fact, I got her bath ready but she was crying & rubbing her eyes, so I knew that it was better to wait & get a short nap in before BT. The night was great and she woke at 7 this morning.

The first nap was 1.5 hrs ending at 12. The nap 2 refusal was firstly because I was not letting her fall asleep on me and trying to get her in the crib, as I could have fit in another proper nap and pushed BT to 7. But what messed it up was the dogs howling. I had to leave the room to shush them and she got her second wind.

I am all for cold turkeying to 1 nap. I just have to work on getting her room dark enough for her to believe it is BT. There are full length windows in her room & it is very bright & sunny here. That's why I have trouble getting her down before 6.30.

A lady in my BC shared her experience with 2-1, and it seems to be what we are experiencing. She said that nap1 was fine with the A but he kept needing more and more A before CN in order to make BT work. Sounds like what is happening here, right?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Yes it does sound similar...I suppose in that case cutting back the first nap to keep a catnap would be wise. Mine all handle ot rather well so I would have chosen to push through, E sometimes will have a brief cryout but not a true nw from ot. Ut is what causes our issues!! We actually used tinfoil in the nursery windows when DD2 was a baby, she was super sensitive to light at the time and that blocked it all out. If you don't think the catnap will be around much longer and apop will get her asleep quickly, I would probably lean towards doing that just for that nap (we always did and it never affected her self soothing at other times).

[newkidontheblock]

Katherine also suggested the tin foil and I think I'm going to go for it. EBT is the answer on this situation. Can E sleep in a room with light now?I get a lot of flack from the extended fam for how sensitive mine is with the room set up. Everything is just a mess right now. Sling CNs downstairs are just not happening with all the kids playing around. I have a quiet place that I like to go but there is currently a crazy dog there.. We were attacked the other day and it was terrifying. He has also attacked a child but we are unable to get help getting him out. So I have been walking around the house and then going into her dark room. No choice right now.

[jessmum46]

Fleur just popping in with hugs and to say that J couldn't sleep anywhere but a pitch black room when she was younger.  But she started nursery age 1 and learned to sleep (a bit!) in a room that wasn't fully dark and with lots of other kids there too.  Now her room is dark but not totally blacked-put and she will sleep just fine.  It gets easier

[newkidontheblock]

Thanks, Katherine. Before I started BW, E used to sleep in a BRIGHT room. I would even leave a lamp on all night. Ah...good times:p Of course the whole reason we had to darken everything was because she stopped.

So ladies, we have now had 3 days of her going to sleep without an issue. HURRAH! The first I have already told you about. Yesterday and today she did long am naps (2hr & 1.40) which were needed as we have our Annual functions on and there was a lot for me to do. I had to go back to ensure that everything was OK and so she hung around in the Boba, and only fell asleep for her pm CN after 4.10A (with little protest). PD for bed after an 1 1/2 hour without a problem.

Interestingly, she did not fall asleep in the carseat on the way home, which she would have if she was ready to nap.

Do you think how the A time is spent also matters?? The pm A is pretty low key. We nurse, have lunch and then pretty much hang around until naptime. She crawls(ish) and rolls around on the bed but nothing very tiring. Whereas yesterday & today, tons of OS with all the kids running around, lights & music. WDYT?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

For sure it makes a difference. Last summer/fall we would have E outside running around as much as possible to wear her out and she has always been more tired by naptime at daycare than she ever has at home (lots of action there!).

[newkidontheblock]

Oh gods, so now I will have to be entertaining! Sigh:p How did you manage with such long A times? I hope this monkey starts crawling soon, so that she can tire herself out. Thus far, she is only interested in any movement on a mattress. Put her on the floor & she won't budge.

[jessmum46]

Just thinking back Fleur you may find A times drop back a bit once she's moving, something to bear in mind if things go a little haywire again xx