Author Topic: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA  (Read 10702 times)

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Offline Mandy.kamal

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25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« on: March 01, 2015, 09:08:43 am »
The NWs have become more frequent and now he wakes 3/4 times during the first half of the night but resettles quickly. The second half he's waking and now taking awhile to sleep. He just woke me now at 3:45am screaming MOMMY repeatedly (which is what he did at his nap today). This is normal OT/UT loop behavior and I need help out.

Our routine was:
Up 7:00/7:30
Nap 12:30-2:00
BT 7:30-8:00
No NWs

He was sick for 2 weeks and things were chaos and threw his off his schedule. Now we can't get it right plus the time is about to change next week (forward an hour) so I'm trying to prep him for that and just get things normal again. Now looks like:

Up 6:00/6:30 (was 5:00 so that's improved)
Nap 12:30-1:40 (roughly) and waked crying usually now
BT 7:00/7:30 (he's been taking ages to fall asleep) usually asleep by 8:30
NWs are all night starting a couple hours after he sleeps

My gut thought the A time before bed was too long (causing some NWs) but I put him down early and he has a really hard time going to sleep. He just plays and drifts off eventually. So I guess that's not it?? If you look at my schedule before that worked wonderfully before he got sick, he was napping 1.5 hours (sometimes 2) and he had 5.5hrs A before and after nap. How could this change so drastically in 2 weeks?

Any suggestions, please?

Offline Mandy.kamal

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2015, 09:11:01 am »
I forgot to add about the SA. He's never, ever gone through this and usually very independent. Just recently he's wanted me and only me!! Not sure if this goes hand in hand with what's going on with him but thought I would add in case
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 09:13:19 am by Mandy.kamal »

Offline Truly Blessed

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2015, 20:17:36 pm »
Hi Honey,

Bless you both, this sounds like a rough ride :( TBH if you can rule out any sickness or discomfort now, it could be that it is co-incidental that his routine needed changing around the time the sickness hit :/.

Before sickness I would have said it was time to push the morning A time out and lengthen the day, and change it toward the 2nd current routine you posted but obviously now sickness and OT have taken their toll. The problem is long term OT can be coupled with short term OT making it very difficult to make the right call, as very often (for us anyway) short term UT wins.

WRT the SA I'm not sure if this is an age developmentally where that is typical, so maybe someone else can help there sorry.

What happens if you shoot for an early nap in the short term to try and extend it  ??? How long is it since he was well again and can you definitely rule out discomfort  ???

((HUGS)) Honey.x.



Offline Mandy.kamal

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2015, 00:36:50 am »
Thank you so, so much. The past couple days have actually gotten better. He went without NW last night!! And he slept great and woke at 7:00am :) I think we are getting back on track. Today was:

(11 hr night)
Up at 7:00
Nap 12:15 (asleep at 12:45)- woke him at 1:45pm
BT 7:15 (asleep at 7:30)

This was fantastic considering how horrible the past month had been. I put him to bed UT at nap and woke him because he only took an hour nap the day before and went to bed much easier (similar to how easy tonight was). Since things have drastically gotten better in just 2 days, should I keep up with this routine?? Does the day/night sleep and everything look about average?

The time is changing an hour ahead this coming Sunday so I'm not wanting to extend his day too much because 7:30pm BT will be 8:30pm and I work nights so I want to have 8:00pm be the latest if possible.

Thank you again!!! Xx

Offline Truly Blessed

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2015, 10:19:38 am »
Hi Hun,

Oh I'm so pleased things are looking up :) So looking at his routine, by the time he fell asleep it was a 12.5 day with an hours nap. It really all depends on him and what type of routine he deals with the best. Some LO's do better with less day sleep and a shorter nap, others need more day sleep and a longer nap. The routine that worked beautifully before sickness kicked in was also a shorter day with a 1.5 hour nap, so it does seem that you may have hit the nail on the head right now and found what could work (well done you!!!) so yes, if it were me (IIWM) I would stick with it for the time being. If in the long term it isn't going to work I would expect the signs to be him appearing OT in the afternoon, and possible resistant at BT due to OT.

The time is changing an hour ahead this coming Sunday so I'm not wanting to extend his day too much because 7:30pm BT will be 8:30pm and I work nights so I want to have 8:00pm be the latest if possible.

If I  had a pound for every time this ^ comes during a regression! ugh. Yes, I agree if you can keep his day short right now it will be beneficial. What I would maybe try on Sunday is a 45 minute nap to try and achieve a slightly earlier BT, do you think he would handle that  ???

Vicki.x.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 10:22:13 am by Sammysmammy »



Offline Mandy.kamal

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2015, 12:22:26 pm »
You are lovely, thank you so much. I appreciate the encouragement and wonderful advice so much.

I'd prefer an 1.5 nap with a 13 hour day but like I mentioned, the time change is looming. It shouldn't take longer than a week to adjust him and I am a bigger fan of the clock forwards than backwards!!! I'm just glad things are looking better.

As you mentioned, I do fear that OT will arise again with the shortened nap and it seems he's lengthening his night to compensate. I guess I'll keep it up until the clocks change and then see how I can adjust that a bit.

He did wake at 5:30am screaming again. He resettled himself within 10 mins and was back to sleep so it wasn't a big deal but just curious if you think that could mean a little OT?

Also, you said if he's fighting BT it could mean OT is coming back again- how can I know if he's OT or UT at BT? It's hard to tell and I often get that confused and that's when I do this UT/OT mistake.

Thank you!!!
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 13:17:30 pm by Mandy.kamal »

Offline Truly Blessed

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2015, 16:25:42 pm »
Ah, you're so welcome Hun, I just hope the advise helps!

He did wake at 5:30am screaming again. He resettled himself within 10 mins and was back to sleep so it wasn't a big deal but just curious if you think that could mean a little OT?

For us UT WU's weren't the more upset ones, they were calmer and more messing around. So upset WU's were always pain or OT, of course than can vary from child to child but as a general rule I would say this was true. I would say in this case that yes, more than likely an OT WU, especially as he resettled, which is rarely if never the case with an UT WU.

Also, you said if he's fighting BT it could mean OT is coming back again- how can I know if he's OT or UT at BT?

The million dollar question! If only we had a straight answer for this one ;) The things that can help you decide are, his mood and his sleepy signs. Plus as I said previously accumulated OT can still be present even though a LO can be UT for that day, does that make sense  ???

If this is the case, then my way of dealing with it was to take a chance and put DS down a little early if he wasn't coping. Sometimes it would pay off, sometimes it wouldn't and he would just fight it. If your DS would fight it with upset then I would be a little wary, as that can make for a longer settling period, whereas DS would just be silly, and lie awake until the usual BT, as a rule, so it worth a punt.

But trust me there's not one of us out there that hasn't struggled with the UT/OT quandary so you're not alone!  ;)

Hope this helps Honey.

x.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 16:27:43 pm by Sammysmammy »



Offline Mandy.kamal

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 17:43:54 pm »
It really does help, thank you so much.

I may let him sleep a little over an hour today just in case I'm cutting it too short. I think I'm too concerned with the time change and how late his BT will be but I need to just continue this week out and know that it'll regulate after the time changes and I can adjust him then.

So far, things have majorly improved so I'm greatful for that and just hoping it continues. I'll keep this up and then once the clocks change, I will probably do the short nap as you suggested and then try for an earlier BT.

Worst case, I can wake him early for a couple mornings and move nap forward as well. So funny! I never thought I would say I need to wake him EARLIER just a few weeks ago when we were in EW hell! :) These kids keep us on our toes

Offline Truly Blessed

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 19:14:30 pm »
I may let him sleep a little over an hour today just in case I'm cutting it too short. I think I'm too concerned with the time change and how late his BT will be but I need to just continue this week out and know that it'll regulate after the time changes and I can adjust him then.

Absolutely Hun, one day at a time :)


Worst case, I can wake him early for a couple mornings and move nap forward as well. So funny! I never thought I would say I need to wake him EARLIER just a few weeks ago when we were in EW hell!  These kids keep us on our toes


LOL, Amen to that! the tweaking never ends!  ::)

Here for any more support or even if you just need a good old moan ;)

x.



Offline Mandy.kamal

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2015, 00:09:35 am »
:) thank you!! I'll go with his for the rest of this week and then tweak once time changes. I'm sure I'll come back for some more help!! Thank you! Xx

Offline Mandy.kamal

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2015, 03:06:33 am »
It took him an hour to fall asleep....and now he just woke 2 hours later crying.
I guess I didn't have things back on track...

Offline Truly Blessed

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2015, 09:03:54 am »
Ugh :(

Okay so that does sound like OT to me. So your options are to give him a longer nap, but I would get him down asap for it personally, helping you to achieve a decent BT. Or keep nap the same and shoot for an earlier BT, what does your gut tell you Hun  ??? Which do you think is most achievable  ???

((HUGS))

x.



Offline Mandy.kamal

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2015, 11:49:58 am »
I guess I'm confused because yesterday was:
11 hour night
Up 7:00
Nap 12:30-1:45 (I didn't wake him and he woke happy)
BT 7:15 but played happily until 8:00 and asleep by 8:15.

Woke at 10:00 and 11:00pm but resettled quickly. Its 7:00am and he just woke up happy. I feel like he needs 5.5/6 hrs awake time before and after his nap but it's tight trying to fit all that into a 12.5/13 hour day when he naps an hour or more.

He doesn't seem that OT and I'm purposefully putting him down earlier for naps and BT to shift his day forward a bit. Maybe putting him down UT is causing this?

I really don't know.

This routine I just posted isn't bad at all I just hate the NWs and don't kike the idea of him going to bed at 9:00pm once the clocks change.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 11:58:02 am by Mandy.kamal »

Offline Truly Blessed

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2015, 14:45:34 pm »
Hi Honey,

Don' panic, but this:

Woke at 10:00 and 11:00pm but resettled quickly. Its 7:00am and he just woke up happy. I feel like he needs 5.5/6 hrs awake time before and after his nap but it's tight trying to fit all that into a 12.5/13 hour day when he naps an hour or more.

Is a bit of a red flag for me and makes me think that he may have started the nap dropping transition. So with that in mind take a look at this and tell me your further thoughts. I put it together myself after the shock of the 1-0 transition with DS, as I thought one day he would just stop napping and sleep longer at night. Oh how blissful ignorance is ;)

The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.

x.



Offline Mandy.kamal

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Re: 25 mo increase in NWs + SA
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2015, 16:10:59 pm »
I've been curious about this as well and have read a bunch of these threads and stickys on the 1-0. I'm just shocked because it happened out of nowhere after his sickness. He was fine before and now all of a sudden he needs a major adjustment. Didn't youvagree though that his NWs crying seemed like OT?

What do you suggest?
Maybe:
Wake 7:00
Nap 12:30-1:30 (or just cut at an hour regardless?)
BT 8:00

That way, he has a 13 hr day and an 11 hr night?

All of this will shift forward of course come Sunday but I can just do a super short nap that day (or no nap) and do an EBT