CN/BT questions

[Emami]

She slept 6:15-5:15, which I guess really is STTN since it was 11hrs.  I fed her and then she went back down until 7:45.  I would be hesitant to do EBT if she was up at 5 and that was it, but hasn't happened so far with either of my two.  I'm a huge fan of EBT but I know it doesn't work for everyone.  No early night wakes in the first part of the night either.  Not sure if you were asking about early waking pre-midnight from long A times and OT, or early starts to the day, but either way it's never caused a problem for me

[newkidontheblock]

What do you think I should try? Shorten the CN? More A time after it?

Yes I think it would make a difference if you cap naps at 2.5 hours max and keep the CN to 30/45 mins. Otherwise hun, it is a case of day sleep taking away from the night, and if you end the day with a one hour nap, then BT will have to be pushed back to compensate and you will be shortening your night even further

[lily_layne]

Yesterday was
WU 715
S 910-1040
S 1230-230 (I woke)
S 4-5 (I think. DS was with mil)
BT 740 He was tired earlier but we were out

He woke at 540 and would not go back to sleep. First nap was 810-830. Should I cap naps today or let him catch up?

[newkidontheblock]

For a day like that, 7 would have been best for BT, and so that explains the 5.40 OT WU.  I would still suggest that you cap naps. 2.5 hrs is restorative enough. At the end of the day, you want him to get most of his sleep at night.

[lily_layne]

Thanks.

He was definitely ready for sleep at 7 but we weren't able to get home in time. The day was too beautiful to spend inside! He was drowsing in his carseat and went back to square one for falling asleep when I took him out.

[lily_layne]

I hate BT. Why does it always have to be struggle? Tonight we had a nice WD and I put him down when he was calm and yawning (just like naps) and he fell asleep with his soother but then was up 10 minutes later. I picked him up and he burped but didn't settle on me and I was frustrated and near tears so I put him in the swing. DH ended up rocking him to sleep and putting him back in the swing. Total time: 50 minutes......grrrrrrrr. Now I'm worried about another OT early wake up.

Today was:
WU: 5:40
S: 8:10-8:40
S: 10:30-1:00
S: 3:15-4:35 - I couldn't wake him earlier. He was with me in a meeting.
BT: Started at 6:20, asleep just past 7. What could I have done differently? If I could have, should I have capped that last nap?

[*Liz*]

Is it possible he just needs a more set bedtime, with the final nap ended in time to facilitate it? Regardless of that nap length really ie awake by 5pm for a 7pm bedtime?

A lot of LOs do seen to do better when things match a body clock somewhat.... And most LOs nap badly at this age with Mums doing bedtimes at 7ish regardless iyswim? Or 30 mins early after a shocker of a day.

Regardless of the A time or the routine both my older kids did better when the routine stayed the same for a while. Megan was very 'clock orientated' even from this sort of age. Even now we need her in bed by 7pm else she is far harder to get down.

Just an idea. I wonder if it is all too 'fluid' and variable.

[newkidontheblock]

Your day seems fine. Even with the one hour nap towards the end, you are leaving a reasonable gap to bed. How long do you think he can handle before bed? Is it that he needed to be in 10-15 minutes earlier, do you think?

ETA: agree with Liz about set BT. For the first 6 months, I WU Eris at 7 sharp and she slept at 7, regardless of naps. I never had a problem with BT. She just wanted to sleep at that time.

[lily_layne]

Is it possible he just needs a more set bedtime, with the final nap ended in time to facilitate it? Regardless of that nap length really ie awake by 5pm for a 7pm bedtime?

This is a good idea. DH would be all for it. He keeps saying the problem is that BT is all over the place. I've been arguing with him but he's going on intuition which may be the way to go. I think it would take stress off of me too. How do I figure out the best BT? If I do set BT do I do set WU also?

Regardless of the A time or the routine both my older kids did better when the routine stayed the same for a while.

Do you mean napping at the same time each day for a while?

BT took 40 minutes tonight. I just sat with him and gave him the soother when needed. Same pattern - went down easily but cried 10 minutes in and then lots of head movement as he settled to sleep. One last cry 20 minutes after that. Could discomfort be a factor? He just seems to have trouble getting into a deep sleep at BT. He is gassier in the evening and does spit up a bit more?

I had to wake DS from all of his naps today which makes me think that he does need more sleep than he's gotten the last few days. My mom said today that she can't remember ever waking us from naps which is causing me a lot of anxiety about whether I am interfering with his ability to self-regulate. Has anyone tried just letting their LO sleep and seeing what happens?

[*Liz*]

I don't wake from naps much - but I don't need to - my DS never sleeps much!

I've woken so many times in the past to preserve bedtime.

I think you have to choose basically. If you want a 7pm (ish) bedtime then you will have to wake from naps until his body adjusts to the new plan. I just hate being on duty all evening  . I'm pretty introverted and need my downtime.

I get what your mum says, but equally would she have even done a 5pm nap, or just done bath and bed a little later? These later CNs are very 'BWer', and most people would avoid anyway iyswim?

My 7pm bedtime is a huge priority for me though. I like an early night, and I eat with DH after he gets in from work. Unfortunately my DS1 is too old for that now but he does at least self entertain  .

[lily_layne]

My mom said she couldn't recall doing a third nap. He had a long chatty nw at 5 so maybe 2 naps is the way to go???
I like my evenings too. I would like ds down by 7 or 730. Do i wake him in the mornings too?

[*Liz*]

No - I always let them wake in the morning. I do recall a phase of waking DS1 to stop 13-14hr nights as obviously he wouldn't nap after that either!

There is a danger 2x3hr naps would rob night as well, but I guess it's trial and error. My DD did just 2 naps from about 4 mths, seemed to suit her rhythm and she always refused the CN.

[lily_layne]

I am wondering if that would work best for him as I seem to often be waking him from naps. I did some reading this morning (bad idea) and lots of schedules have a 3rd nap but one source said only 20% of babies have a 3rd nap.

If you let them wake in the morning does that mean some days are less than 12 hours with a set BT if they did a long night?

[*Liz*]

Neither of mine has ever really done long nights. Jacob was always 10.5-11, Megan 11.5-12.

[lily_layne]

Right now, I'm not sure what night length Reid would be happy with. He was doing 12-13 but I know that can change. Clearly his nights aren't enough for him right because he had an OT am nap and was yawning and yawning and yawning in the following A time. I did a shorter A time and he still did an OT 20 min cry out.