Routine help pls

[Florena49]

Cant seem to shift wu time and eliminate the night waking

We have had terrible nights, but that has been slowly resolved and now i think we have an issue with routine and i cant seem to move the wu time to 7 as it previously was.
When we had bad nights we did 7-12-7 routine and he settled for nap and bt brilliantly. So the nap has moved a little,but we still do set nap and set BT

Yesterday was

Wu 6.40
Nap 12.15-2.05    5.35A
bT 7.30.                 5.35A

He was up 2pm in the night and wu at 6.45 am

He was being a nugget at BT when he is really tired he settles within minutes but recently he has been playing up at BT.
He has slept through the night twice do far, but not on this routine, one after a 40 min nap that ended at 3.30 and the other time when his nap was too early in the day.

Is he oT or need daytime sleep cutting? Or longer until BT, just cant work out

[creations]

Hi
I think you have two options.
1. cap nap. Works for many LOs to preserve night length (not mine though!). Cap at 1hr 30 max
2. move nap time and BT later. Night becomes a little shorter but some LOs are well rested with a longer nap and shorter night (mine was). Move nap to 12.30 to encourage a good sleep. Move BT to 7.45/8pm expect WU at 7am.

It really depends how his mood is on a shorter nap. Some LOs are cranky after a capped nap and recover quite quickly so are overall well rested and the routine settles.  Some just don't recover after a capped nap so remain moody the entire day, not very nice for anyone.

Mine was best with a 2hr nap and 10 hr night until we dropped the nap. Now he does a full 7-7, 12 hr night.

[Buttonbobs]

Is it the messing about at BT that makes you feel a routine change is needed or the NW? A NW on it's own probably wouldn't lead me towards changing a routine, but if you do I agree absolutely with Creations regarding your options. My DD also kept the longer nap and shortened her night, capping naps didn't work for her either, but it might for your LO.

What is happening at the NW? How is he waking, crying straight away or playing or something in between? How long does it take for him to settle back down? What are you doing to help him settle if he is crying out?

[Florena49]

Im tempted to do a nap at 12.30 and see if that shifts the wu in the morning.
The thing is he is apparently a golden child when he isnt with me, he can skip his nap and be absolutely happy at the childminders ( has done this before) he always wakes crying after his nap, whethe it was 1.10 or 2 hours.
At night, sometimes daddy beings him to bed, other times he says ib his cot, he is easy to settle, just needs putting back down and telling him to go back to sleep.

I will try shifting and see if that makes a difference to wu and then we can try and work out this NW.

[Buttonbobs]

I would give it a go if you want to.

As for the NWs, if he is easy enough to get back to sleep I wouldn't worry too much about it, just put him back in his cot and reassure him with your voice as you are and he'll soon get the idea he doesn't need your presence to go back to sleep.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Hun,

Sorry you're still having some difficulty, it's hard over long periods of time  so ((HUGS)) for that.

Can you post what routine you were actually shooting for recently  and remind me exactly how old he is please.

Also as he is only quite recently in his own bed, IIWM I would make that a constant now, so the message is crystal clear and his NW aren't extended due to the possibility of co-sleeping.

x.

[Florena49]

He is 16 months now.

He has been an independent sleeper from about 4 months, no dummies, swaddled etc.
we moved i September and had major renovations in the house done, so we were all sauashed in one bedroom and co-slept for a couple of months. I was still BF at the time and as it turned out it wSnt co sleepibg but BF that was the problem at night. We weaned at 14 months, im pregnant and it wS unbearably painful to feed him. And within a week he started sleeping better, still slept with us for part of the night, but only woke twice to start with and then just once. We both work, so sone nights when we are both particularly tired then we will bribg him to bed with us, usually thats around 2am.

He has sttn twice, but not on this routine.

Since he was 14 months we aimed for
7wu
12-2 nap
7BT

In terms of nap and wu it worked perfectly he also settled at BT within minutes.
I reckon about 3 weeks ago he started waking earlier 6.30 or so and struggling at BT. Can take him upto 30 mins.

So we started doing set naps

7wu
12.15nap
7.15 BT

The problem is that he never wakes at 7, so wanted to shift that first really.

Yesterday we did

6.45wu
12.25nap-2.25
8BT

I think the 2 hour nap killed it for us, he was just not ready for BT. And we had 1 Nw around 2am, he slept till 6.50, but he was in a very light sleep, and in the night he was scratching abd movibg aroubd lots, just not tired enough and crying out, he does that when he cant fall into deep sleep.
So it seems that 2 hour sleep as lovely as it is is killing the dayfor us. i do prefer an earlier BT than 8pm

[creations]

How about capping at 1.5hrs with the start of the nap moving later but the end of the nap staying at 2pm?
So 12.30 - 2pm, with 7/7.30pm BT?
This kind of routine can work for some to reduce the nap and maintain the night.  The only way to really tell is to choose to do it and see what happens over time.
If it doesn't work out then switching to long nap shorter night would be the other option.

I was also pretty against an 8pm BT but you know if you see your LO doing well on a longer nap and shorter night you just kind of suck it up and remind yourself the late BT is not for ever. It felt like a big shift for us for a few days but we all adapted to the change pretty quickly, we were so in the habit of 8pm BT that when he dropped the nap and needed a 7pm BT it was a huge shock to our day! Having to get dinner ready earlier, no proper time to play after dinner etc etc. It was a tight squeeze...but again we quickly adapted and now it seems very normal.

[Florena49]

I dont even know anymore, will give ut a few days.

He had 1.10 min nap, as he was with mil she didnt resettle, aimed for 7.15 bt but didnt sleep until 7.30

And has been up twice now, which is unheard of really.

I guess i will persevere with the 7wu and 12.30nao and BT might have to be played with. But around 7 i guess

[Florena49]

Up at 6 its killing me and no idea what to do with his nap

[creations]

I would keep his nap time set.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Hun,

Gosh you've had a lot on your plate, you must be shattered, bless you.

Have you considered cutting his nap initally by 15 minutes, so a 1hr 45 minutes nap. Also I wonder if he may do better with a longer 1st A time  Meaning short PM could be over ridden by long AM, which works well for some LO's. So I guess you would be looking to achieve something like this in the long term:

WU 7.00

Nap 1 to 2.45

BT 7.30

I suspect it may be a good idea to lengthen his day by 30 minutes maybe, from his old routine. This may mean the slightly shorter nap will work, so if he does do better on a decent nap, it's a happy medium, and you keep BT earlier than 8.00, overall sleep being 13 hours 15 minutes  .

It's all trial and error Hun, it may be that the nap is still too long, but then you decide (like said previously) if you can handle a longer day because you think it is better for DS, or if you cut the nap by 30 mins and see how he does.

((HUGS))

x.

[Florena49]

Ill scrap today i think, its a first he fell asleep whilst having lunch in his chair at 11.10!  Bless him, and it wasnt even dozed off, he was out, i took him upstairs put him to bed and he slept until 12.50. Woke up happy, but i still put him to bed at 7, i know he was OT and he wome 50 mi. later, but asleep now. He is at the childminders for the next two days, so we will take the days as they come, he doesnt sleep there well at all, some days he just doesnt sleep there...ah these babies

[creations]

Maybe he's coming down with something?  I hope not.
Vibes for a better day tomorrow.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Viktoria,

Just checking in to see how things are, it's so tricky. Hope he is well though, not sick I mean.

x.