Author Topic: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT  (Read 2762 times)

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Offline 4babycolt

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1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« on: March 09, 2015, 23:04:36 pm »
I started PD with my 1.5 year DS 1 week ago. At first it wasn't too bad, but after day 4 he started to regress and protest more than before.

History:  My AP was bf to sleep, that is until he stopped going to sleep (naps and BT!) And I bf back to sleep after his .5 hr wake up time during naps  (bc then he would sleep for another hour) and I bf back to sleep during the night. When the bf stopped I would rock him to sleep.... then that stopped working too.
               We use to co-sleep, until starting PD (last week).

Current situation: He is giving clear signs of tiredness after 1.5 - 2 hours after "eating" ( he doesnt eat much for solid foods) &  Activity.
So we do our wind-down routine: change diaper, bf top up, read, lay him in his bed (hes mostly crawling into voluntarily and even laying his head down!) but then the on-saga begins. I am held hostage for 1-1.5 hours of him tossing, turning and fussing, & sometimes crying. He constantly wants to distract himself and prevent himself from sleeping. He will hit his head with his hands, bang his head against the wall, sit up, and stay up, even if he's falling over,reach over the bed and play with the carpet or just crawl out of bed.

SO WHY ISNT HE STILL IN A CRIB?

My perceived problems:
He has NEVER slept through the night. before we started PD i was being woken up ever 45 mins to 1.5 hours, I would bf him back to sleep, only to be woken 45 mins- 1.5 hrs later. (sleep deprivation finally did it for me to NEED CHANGE)
He wakes up crying in the middle of the night and then tries to crawl into bed with me, every time, and every night.
AND THE OH SO FUN ONE, EW!! I have tried
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Offline nevinsmama

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2015, 01:50:24 am »
Hi there. Is it possible that some of this post got cut off? Just want to be sure we are getting the whole story here. Am I reading correctly that he is only awake for about 1.5 to 2 hours? If so, he is probably no where near tired enough for proper sleep. Could you post a typical day to clarify please? Just when he wakes, eats, naps, wakes and eats again and so on. May I ask why he is out of a crib? My DS was in one until he was 4 and DD is still in the crib and she is nearly 3!

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Offline Truly Blessed

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2015, 11:19:19 am »
Also her waiting for you to post routine. Bless you Sweetheart, this sounds like a very rough ride.

Waiting to help.

((HUGS))

Vicki.x.



Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2015, 20:08:35 pm »
Sorry! for 2'reasons. I don't know why I said 1'5 year old. DS just turned  my post sent before I was finished and I didn't realize it until now. I'm on my phone trying to explain this while DS is crying. He's super angry and frustrated.

Sigh. Where to begin? !
Today we are on week 2 of PD (when DS gets worked up and screaming I do PU but immediately put him down when he settles).
Issues
#1) I'm still in the bedroom waiting for him to settle and start humming himself sleep. I don't know how to do WI/WO. I stay in the bedroom bc he puts up such a huge fight, fuss, protests? Not sure how to label/describe it.
#2) when do I stop going to him and laying him down when he stands up in the crib?  He understands me when I say "lay down" he use to be very willing to Lay down in the first week, but he is very resistant now. When I go to Lay him down he throws himself back, and if I want holding on to him he'd throw his head into the crib. Every time he is put in his crib he cries. My husband has been patient but after 2 weeks now, the crying is only getting worse.
#3) when he's going down throws his lovey it the crib. I only put it back in twice, after that I put it on the dresser.if I leave it on the floor he tried to reach for it and cries. more What do you recommend regarding this?

Daily routine
Wake at 6:45am.  we need to be waking up at this time to leave for "school" so this is a desirable time.for us to wake.
Eat (mostly me bc he doesn't eat much solids. About 2 small pieces of breakfast Turkey meat, 1-2 blueberries, 1 bite of scrambled egg and a bite of sourdough bread.)
Activity, in the house, independent, sometimes on a stool to watch me do dishes.
Then we play together and after being awake for 1.5-2 hrs he give tbe sign for sleep (he knows some sign language,) rubs his eyes, crawls to the bedroom, if the door is closed he bangs on it. Yesterday my hubby tried to keep him out of the room to keep him awake longer he just started crying and goes back to the door. I take that as a clear sign of him wanting to go to sleep. But, at naps and BT it takes him 40+ minutes to go to sleep.
He will nap for 1.5 hours. He has stopped waking up a 1/2 hr after going down!
But for BT he wakes  up every 1.5hrs. The longest stretch of sleep we've had since he was born was this past Thursday night/ Friday morning. It was 3 hours. To me, that's progress, so that's why I'm trying to stick this out.




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Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2015, 22:42:50 pm »
Could you post a whole day in EAS format, showing the sleeps and timings of them, it isn't clear from your post whether he is sleeping one nap, first thing in the morning after 2 hours of A, and then no more naps, or if he's napping every two hours in the day. If you can clarify we may be able to offer some help :)
~ Naomi ~




Offline nevinsmama

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 00:45:56 am »
Dropping off some hugs and seconding Naomi's request for some clarification so we can help you out!

Maryn


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Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 17:54:17 pm »
6:45 wake up change diaper
By 7:15 sit down for breakfast
7:30 he plays independently, I clean
8:45 he's rubbing his eyes, signing sleep, and walks to the bedroom
Begin wind-down routine: change diaper, bf top up, read, put in crib awake with lovey
Sometimes he take 40 minutes to fall asleep, other times it can take an hour, and sometimes not at all. When he sleeps it's for 1.5 hrs.
Wake him up at 11 if he hasn't already done so.
E 11:10 eat snack
Activity play together, go to park or do errands or have a bath ( every other day)
Eat lunch
S.  By 12:45 pm he's rubbing eyes and fussing. Repeat same -down routine as in am. Usually takes 20 minutes to go fall asleep since having the crib up. This nap is the easiest to get him to go down. Only twice has he skipped it
Wakes up 1.5 hrs later
~2:30/3 Eat snack
A independent play and watch me prep and cook dinner.
Eat dinner at 5:00 or 5:30
Begin wind-down routine for BT. Brush teeth, change diaper, bf top up, read book.
Put in crib awake
Usually takes 35-40 minutes.

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Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2015, 21:17:22 pm »
Sorry, the BT routine starts around 5
6:15-6:30.
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Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2015, 22:02:39 pm »
I'm not doing a good job reading my posts before I send them. Sorry for all the hills and confusion. I'm on fumes. DS got sick from hubby, do he has a runny nose, plus hrs teething, 2 coming in on the bottom
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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2015, 22:17:36 pm »
Oh hugs honey, you sound very tired. Xxx

I do think that he's just way too under tired for that first nap. The trouble with tired signs or signals at this a em is that they will feel tired, if they've always gone to nap at that time they will want to sleep, but I think it is too early for a full long nap. Then the afternoon is long after a not brilliantly restorative nap at lunchtime.

Have you seen this link?
From 2 to 1 nap transition (10-12m and older)

You could try pushing that morning nap later either 15/30 mins and then holding it there for three/four days, and then shifting it later again. If he starts settling more easily and sleeping a nice long 1.5 hours plus at that first nap, you might be able to have he afternoon nap later in he afternoon. This will keep the A time before bed shorter and he may be less overtired by BT and you should get better night sleep.

Alternatively keep the morning nap where it is but cap it shorter. Then he might get a nice longer sleep in he afternoon.

What do you think?
~ Naomi ~




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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2015, 09:50:55 am »
Hello Sweetheart,

Just a quick one to add some ((HUGS) and lots more sympathy, it sounds truly exhausting and you should be proud of your patience, and DH.

I just want to quickly give you the answer to this:

#3) when he's going down throws his lovey it the crib. I only put it back in twice, after that I put it on the dresser.if I leave it on the floor he tried to reach for it and cries. more What do you recommend regarding this?

When doing PU/PD with DS I would keep the blankie for 1 minute after the first throw, then add a minute every time. Eventually he got the message. Worth a try.

x.



Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2015, 15:59:08 pm »
Buttonbobs
Thank you so much for sharing your suggestions.
Yesterday I put DS for his first nap later than usual as suggested and he took 40 minutes to fall asleep, but it wasn't a crying fit. Whew.
if he falls asleep at 10 or 10:30, what time should I be waking him , or does that he sleeps later and it also means the second nap gets pushed back too?
He fell asleep at 10:30 and he woke at 11:45. He was tired again at 2 but I didn't get home until 2:45 and by then he was over tired and hyper so I didn't try putting him down at that time, I ended up bf him to sleep around 4:30 I think? He had a 15/minute cat nap. By 7:20 he was tired again and feel asleep about 8 pm. It only took 1/2 hr and very little crying and assistance needed from me.
Also, should I keep going and laying him down when he stands up? At what points should I, and which points shouldn't I?

For this morning's nap I only did a few times in the first 5 minutes.
He only took 20 minutes to fall asleep for today's first nap; but then moved and hit his head on the crib bars so he woke up for a minute to let out a few winters but was back to sleep in his own! I'm so relieved! Big posts on the back for baby, helped, mommy & daddy!

 Sammysmammy, I tried your suggestion at bed time so I wouldn't have to worry about spending a whole nap time teaching him not to throw his lovey. It took maybe 15 minutes then he left it alone!  How awesome!  The next morning, at first nap, it took 4 throws and he stopped.

Ladies and gentlemen ! We are seeing big progress!
The night wakings are still 4-5 times, misty painfully starting at 3 am, then every hour after that. Each one waking in screaming... Any suggestions for those?

I want to say how appreciative I am for both of your suggestions and hep. I was going to give up yesterday, but thankfully was able to reason out of that. And your suggestions were an inspiration for me to keep trying. Plus, he's teething and sick ATM.
I will be definitely taking to my husband about us donating to this web site, and purchasing the baby whisper book! ( I'm borrowing it from the library! )
 
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Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2015, 16:10:47 pm »
Hi there. Is it possible that some of this post got cut off? Just want to be sure we are getting the whole story here. Am I reading correctly that he is only awake for about 1.5 to 2 hours? If so, he is probably no where near tired enough for proper sleep. Could you post a typical day to clarify please? Just when he wakes, eats, naps, wakes and eats again and so on. May I ask why he is out of a crib? My DS was in one until he was 4 and DD is still in the crib and she is nearly 3!

You were right, he was showing signs of tiredness but wasn't ready. I had doubts at first but your post helped me take a step back and re evaluate.
He was out of the crib bc he kept on hitting his head on the bars and it woke him up everyone. When he started to learn to move (roll &crawl). Plus he wakes up kicking his blanket off him, but shortly later would wake up crying from being cold. So, we co slept and he stayed a comfortable temperature all night. After a while I got tired of not being able to roll in the middle of the nigh, bc he would wake up, so we put our mattress on the floor and put his crib mattress next to me (on the floor as well.)
Well, as he's been getting to the point of challenging and wanting independence, it became a battle of the wills to keep him on his mattress for naps and BT. So, that's when I went to the library and borrowed PU/PD; and now, DS is back in the crib. With less thrashing into crib bars!  I think being in between DH and I he learned to stop moving so much.
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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2015, 16:43:35 pm »
Hi Honey :)

Sammysmammy, I tried your suggestion at bed time so I wouldn't have to worry about spending a whole nap time teaching him not to throw his lovey. It took maybe 15 minutes then he left it alone!  How awesome!  The next morning, at first nap, it took 4 throws and he stopped.

Well done, that's super, it hasn't failed yet for anyone I've passed this onto lol. You see we can outsmart these tricky LO's ')

Trust me Hun, we have all had those times where we've almost cracked, but it is so worth the effort, you can trust me on that!

The sickness and teething is however bad timing, as usually it's very hard to enforce any sleep training during these times :(. However I do in your case think it worth trying to stick with it because there is every chance it is still the best way to get the most sleep into him, just bear in mind that the results might not show until he is through it, but the good habits can still be enforced in the meantime, but don't be afraid to give him the comfort that he needs, I hope that makes sense

So for his routine, it can be difficult if settling times are long. Usually I would say to pick a wake up time and go with it every day, but as he is under the weather (UTW) this could be tricky. Daytime sleep would usually be capped at 3 hours at this age max. As it's hard to say if your DS is low/average or high sleep needs until a routine is established, it will be trial and error for a while Sweetie. Main thing is to start establishing good habits, keeping up the PD training and him sleeping in his own bed, and the rest will follow. But as a guide, I'd keep pushing the nap by 15 mins if that is what you have started, so a 7.45 WU and shooting for a nap around 10. Who knows what time he will actually fall asleep, and my hunch is he will probably wake himself before you have to cap, but if not I would cap at 2 hours, and PM nap length and time will depend on the wake up (WU) time and length of nap. I'm sorry I know this isn't as clean cut and laid out as we would like it to be :( But you can check back with us regularly, for further advise.

The night wakings are still 4-5 times, misty painfully starting at 3 am, then every hour after that. Each one waking in screaming... Any suggestions for those?

Are you medicating for the teething pain Hun, if not I would. Ibuprofen worked better than paracetomol for teething, and you can try putting a pillow under his mattress at the top end to raise his head a little, as when teething the pressure and pain is greater when lying flat. Like I said give him some comfort if he is in pain but maybe keep him in his bed to do so, and just give him a nice hug, shush him and encourage him to lay back down. Keep the lighting as low as you can if you need to medicate in the night, and keep your words to the minimum, shushing and one key phrase like "Sleepy time Sweetheart" If necessary is best, the same goes for bed time.


For this morning's nap I only did a few times in the first 5 minutes.
He only took 20 minutes to fall asleep for today's first nap; but then moved and hit his head on the crib bars so he woke up for a minute to let out a few winters but was back to sleep in his own! I'm so relieved!

Let this be your inspiration Hun, it's so great :) He will get there and you are doing so well, you both should be proud. Get the wine chilled for the first time he sleeps through the night ;)


I am sure Naomi will have some advise for you too.

Naomi, please feel free to concur or not with all of the above ;)

Lots of ((HUGS)) Hun.
I will be definitely taking to my husband about us donating to this web site, and purchasing the baby whisper book! ( I'm borrowing it from the library! )

The books are a must Honey and thank you, any donations are so gratefully received and essential to keep us running :)

Lots of ((HUGS))

x.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 16:45:40 pm by Sammysmammy »



Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2015, 16:46:29 pm »
I spoke too soon!  DS woke from his nap 40 minutes later, crying. He's still laying down but won't stay asleep; he drifted to sleep twice but woke up 2 minutes later.  What gives?

Awe! He hugged his lovey!  How sweet!
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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2015, 16:47:45 pm »
What gives?

Probably the fact he's under the weather Hun :( hang in there! x.




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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2015, 01:53:34 am »
Are you medicating for the teething pain Hun, if not I would. Ibuprofen worked better than paracetomol for teething, and you can try putting a pillow under his mattress at the top end to raise his head a little, as when teething the pressure and pain is greater when lying flat.

I have been using Tylenol. But I week get some baby ibuprofen! Thank you again
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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2015, 23:11:40 pm »
Hi Honey :)

...The sickness and teething is however bad timing, as usually it's very hard to enforce any sleep training during these times :(. However I do in your case think it worth trying to stick with it because there is every chance it is still the best way to get the most sleep into him, just bear in mind that the results might not show until he is through it, but the good habits can still be enforced in the meantime, but don't be afraid to give him the comfort that he needs, I hope that makes sense

So for his routine, it can be difficult if settling times are long. Usually I would say to pick a wake up time and go with it every day, but as he is under the weather (UTW) this could be tricky. Daytime sleep would usually be capped at 3 hours at this age max. As it's hard to say if your DS is low/average or high sleep needs until a routine is established, it will be trial and error for a while Sweetie. Main thing is to start establishing good habits, keeping up the PD training and him sleeping in his own bed, and the rest will follow. But as a guide, I'd keep pushing the nap by 15 mins if that is what you have started, so a 7.45 WU and shooting for a nap around 10. Who knows what time he will actually fall asleep, and my hunch is he will probably wake himself before you have to cap, but if not I would cap at 2 hours, and PM nap length and time will depend on the wake up (WU) time and length of nap. I'm sorry I know this isn't as clean cut and laid out as we would like it to be :( But you can check back with us regularly, for further advise.


I just wanted to give you an update with how DS is doing.
He still has a runny nose (green snot, buggers and all,) but he is doing SOOO MUCH BETTER with NT and BT! its amazing. 9/ 10 he falls asleep in 5-15 minutes and usually sleeps for 1 hr for NT and during the night is about 2 hour stretches.
Also, he is doing way better with actually eating solid foods. Its not as much as it could/should be for a toddler his age, but its better than before!
 

Nights still have some room for improvement, but last night was a good night, at least he wasn't frantic when I put him down after only giving him a short 12 am feed;  he isn't screaming as loud, is quicker to settle and go back to sleep (even if he did wake an hour later to finish feeding). DH and i agreed that when he gets over his cold we will work on decreasing the night feeds and eventually cut them out all together. 

Sunday night/ Monday morning and day, looked like:
Sunday night:
6:40 pm began BT routine
6:55 put in crib awake (little cry out but layed down right away.)
7:40pm asleep, 10 mins later cried but settled right away on own.
gave a 9pm Dream feed.
11pm wake up crying. PD for 45 mins. he was hysterical.
1 am WU crying. BF for 10 mins back to sleep, back in crib with no incident
@ 2:50am I stroked him to slightly wake him to reset sleep. it didn't work.
3:15 WU crying. so BF.. but he wasn't feeding, just suckling. stirred him enough to feed some; put in crib with no incident
5:35 WU crying. so BF
6:40 WU crying NO BF this time, got him up for the day.
E 7:40am offered solids; ate very little
A 7:55am independent play.
E 8:50am offered solids candied salmon, ate 6 bites, refused cheese, refused red meat.
S 9:10am Cranky and tired. NT routine BF rt side. Cried for 1 min after being put in crib, then mantra cried for 10 minutes, I consoled him 3 times. 
9:25am asleep. after falling asleep for 1 min he did 1 big, short, cry out (whistle still sleeping, & stayed asleep)
10:55 WU crying  ( do they eventually stop doing that?) On WU i don't remember if I BF.
A 11am 
E 1pm great eating of solids!
S 1:45pm BF to sleep (oops!) Nose was very congested & full of mucous even after clearing it out to the best of my ability. He woke up in 10 minutes (once i tired laying him in his crib). Kept doing PD until about 2:45
A 2:50 - 5:45pm play with me and then dad.
6:15 began BT routine. quite tired, impatient and agitated. only read 3 pg of BT story.
6:35 in crib, no crying. Stood up once and protested but sat himself back down and fell asleep in 10 minutes!!! AWESOME JOB LITTLE GUY!

it was a rough AM but awesome PM.

Monday night at 7:40pm, 10:30, he cried out but didn't wake up. @  11:30pm cried out again but I gave soothing word to get him back to sleep.


Now, for some moms, this would be a piece of cake, for others, they might pull out their hair. For me, Im satisfied for the progress but there is still room for improvement.

Tuesday, today, (from 12 am - 6:30 am) looked like:
12:40 am woke up and wouldn't settle on own or with soothing words. BF one side and took off, put in crib. MAN, DID HE CRY! was able to sooth to sleep eventually.
1:30 WU crying and wouldn't soothe on own, BF the other side. Fell asleep and put in crib without incident.
2:50 and sometime during the 3am hour he mantra cried out, but... i think he put himself back down.
5:25 am 1 mantra cry, settled for 10 minutes but woke up 10 mins later.
I  kept him in his crib, he seemed to be in and out of consciousness for about 15 mins. He kept sitting up, but then laying down on his own, or when I asked him to. A few times of PD. This kept going on until 6:30. Then  I got him up for the day. He had a very wet diaper and snot coming down his nose.

What does anyone make of these past days? Do you have suggestions of how to tweak the day or evening to help him sleep through the night? I'm prepared to stop Night BF once he gets better from his cold.

I'm not too sure he wants or needs 12 hours during the night. Maybe I should try 10.5 or 11 hrs of sleep?

Also, that 2nd nap yesterday, with it being so short, do you think that helped with him sleeping much better through the night? should I cap today's second nap? He is 40 mins in.
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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2015, 07:07:38 am »
Hi, just a couple of thoughts:

I know you're not ready to stop the NFs cold turkey, but I would definitely move the DF later, if you keep it at all. In order for a DF not to disturb night sleep it needs to be between 10 & 11pm ideally after a 7ish BT. It is possible that keeping the DF so early is disturbing his sleep rhythm and causing more NWs later in the night. Seeing as your plan is to withdraw NFs once he's over his cold (and I think this is a good idea, he doesn't really need Nfs to sustain him and all these extra milk feeds will reduce his need for solids) could you start by cutting the DF, and just seeing when he first wakes and cries for milk. Then when his cold is over you can go more cold turkey on the no NFs.

I also think we could try and shift that first nap later, aiming for one nap more or less in the middle of the day, after lunchtime. I know others have suggested moving it later by 15 mins or so every three days but I think he's so UT for the map that he (and you) could really benefit from a shift to a much later nap. Have you seen these routines of other toddlers for one nap in the day:
What does your toddlers day look like?

Also, I wonder whether fixing set naps might help you:
Set naps for toddlers: Why, How and When

I know this suggestion might feel very drastic, but sometimes a big change is needed to sort the sleep pattern. I think while you try to keep hold of two naps the this pattern of UT/OT and lots of NWs will probably continue. What do you think you could manage when he feels better?
~ Naomi ~




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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2015, 10:08:15 am »
Hi Honey,

I agree with Naomi on all counts. I always found that with such inconsistency it is almost impossible to 'see the wood for the trees' you know  ??? It is a lot more stressful when every day is different and going with set times can really help you to understand what is going on. I do think that when he has dropped the NF things will progress much faster. I speak with experience here, from when DS was younger and got used to NF's through awful teething, at which point he was eventually waking every 1.5 hours to feed, and I was exhausted. This is when I did his PD training, as you are doing now.

I think you are an inspiration, I really do. The fact that you are able to see and appreciate the progress you have made leaves me in no doubt whatsoever that you can see this through and that DS is a very lucky little fella  :-*

x.



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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2015, 17:50:47 pm »

I also think we could try and shift that first nap later, aiming for one nap more or less in the middle of the day, after lunchtime. I know others have suggested moving it later by 15 mins or so every three days but I think he's so UT for the map that he (and you) could really benefit from a shift to a much later nap. Have you seen these routines of other toddlers for one nap in the day:
What does your toddlers day look like?

Yesterday was a gong show with NT & BT.
He didnt settle for his first nap @ 9, i only tried for 10 mins and i could tell he wasnt able to fall asleep so i took him out.
tried again at 10 (he seemed tired..yet again) but after 15 mins I took him out.
Tired again at 12, he was out 2 mins after being in crib.
BUT. he slept for 1.5 hrs. This is better than the 1 hr he as previously doing, but woke up SOOOOO UPSET AND CRYING. :( And he was not having me do PD. Should I have tried to get him back to sleep? if so how? car ride?
He didnt take a 2'nd nap, and to add salt to the wound, I had tried at 5:40 to put him to bed, he was in there for an hour, tossing and turning, yelling and playing. He wasn't going to sleep. so Hubby and I decided to take him out. (usually we are firm about after BT he stays in there... but last night seemed different. Plus I was OT, lol, yes, me OT, to keep going in to do PD; and hubby didnt feel it was right to leave him in there when he wasnt tired.)
He finally started to show signs of Tiredness at 7:45 pm. Began BT routine again. after 5 mins of being in crib he was asleep  8pm

I dont think i managed this very well. But, if you think that its worth trying to repeat, Id be willing to try it again. we all did have a good nights sleep, better than ever before (its all relative! LOL!)



I know you're not ready to stop the NFs cold turkey, but I would definitely move the DF later, if you keep it at all. In order for a DF not to disturb night sleep it needs to be between 10 & 11pm ideally after a 7ish BT. It is possible that keeping the DF so early is disturbing his sleep rhythm and causing more NWs later in the night. ... start by cutting the DF, and just seeing when he first wakes and cries for milk. Then when his cold is over you can go more cold turkey on the no NFs.

Last night wake up:
-1 hr after finally falling asleep. He was pretty upset, but I could tell it was a mantra cry, so I decided to leave him for a few minutes. 2 minutes later he fell asleep on his own.
-But 40 mins later, up, and upset!!! but I Shh'd him back to sleep. I think it took ~10 minutes? This is usually the time when I would have BF, but bc he went to sleep so late I knew he didn't "need" it.
-Again, 1/2 hr later he woke up crying, i was able to shh/ soothe back to sleep.

 I believe we all slept until ~1 am??? Honestly though, I don't remember. I think we did a middle of the night feed, but i dont know for how long or what time... or if we did? Crazy.

-Woke up at 4:50 am BF. he came off on his own and I put him back in his crib in 1 motion! 
-WU @ 6:20 am. i was able to shhh him and he played for 10 minutes quietly in his crib, but started crying big time for 3 mins. once he quieted down I took him out for the day.
-Out of crib by 6:33
So in total, I think it was 2, poss 3 BF throughout the night. And i will continue to decrease it

Also, I wonder whether fixing set naps might help you:
Set naps for toddlers: Why, How and When

I know this suggestion might feel very drastic, but sometimes a big change is needed to sort the sleep pattern. I think while you try to keep hold of two naps the this pattern of UT/OT and lots of NWs will probably continue. What do you think you could manage when he feels better?

Im still reading through the second link about naps and writing my notes so i can quickly refer back to them.
today i thought id try to cap the morning nap at 45 mins; he usually wakes 1 hr after going down. Push the 2/nd nap sooner thus having A longer in pm b4 BT....
Im still uncertain about pushing the 1'st nap to 11 am or 12 (and then do I give a cat nap in pm? If so what time?) .... but im worried what if he doesn't take that 2'nd cat nap, am I going to have a baby up till 8 again? and in those attachments it says everything is fine and dandy the first few days but they regress later bc they are so OT.
I think, but im inexperienced so im not sure if i should keep listening to myself, that its too soon for DS to only be napping once and im scared to try yesterdays scenario again (with trying to get a 2'nd nap.) BUT maybe he does need something more drastic.
sorry, im rambling.
My brain hurts.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 17:55:21 pm by 4babycolt »
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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2015, 18:01:02 pm »
Hi Honey,

I agree with Naomi on all counts. I always found that with such inconsistency it is almost impossible to 'see the wood for the trees' you know  ??? It is a lot more stressful when every day is different and going with set times can really help you to understand what is going on. I do think that when he has dropped the NF things will progress much faster. I speak with experience here, from when DS was younger and got used to NF's through awful teething, at which point he was eventually waking every 1.5 hours to feed, and I was exhausted. This is when I did his PD training, as you are doing now.

I think you are an inspiration, I really do. The fact that you are able to see and appreciate the progress you have made leaves me in no doubt whatsoever that you can see this through and that DS is a very lucky little fella  :-*

x.

You are right! Inconsistency ... its killing me. I love consistency, I love to know what to expect. I have lots of adapting to do with LO. We did have consistency b4. He'd cry i'd feed him, he'd rub his eyes, i'd put him to bed! lol! so easy! But, it wasn't getting us rest. So, its time for change, and i think the change is better!

Thank you
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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2015, 22:21:13 pm »
((Hugs)) honey, you're doing well even if it doesn't feel like it. And it was only day 1! I would say stick with the same plan to put him down for a morning nap a little later and wake him at 45 mins if you can and then go for an afternoon longer nap and BT as you've suggested. Stick with it for a few days and keep reporting back and we can reassess once he's had a chance to adjust.
~ Naomi ~




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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2015, 19:41:52 pm »
Hi everyone,

A long time since I've updated on DS progress.
All in all, He has gotten better with time and persistence. He takes himself off the breast (most times) before falling asleep, with the exception of during the night, he still wakes at 3 am and 5 am. He has been sleeping through the 11pm and sometimes 1 am wake ups. Gentle strokes and hushes most times can do the trick without having to PU and or bf. We have found that 9/10 times not responding to him (seeing if he puts himself down) leads to hysterical screaming, crying and often shaking. Sheesh right?! I still keep patient and give him a few minutes to settle on his own per chance he will. but at 3 am and 5 am its not a pretty sight. the 5 am wake ups are actually recent and I tried to nip it in the bud and man what a screaming fest. He was so wide awake, but soooo tired and refused to go back to sleep in his crib. I did resort to BF back to sleep. Fully aware that i'm perpetuating the problem, and in fact, this is most likely contributing to his tantrums he started about 2 weeks ago. But, we have decided to take the slow approach to night weaning, and weaning in general. TBH (mostly with myself) I think of this actually as the lazy way. I don't want to be up 3 am doing PU PD with a hysterical 15 month toddler or do it at 5 am. I really just want to go back to sleep. We still are in a 1 bedroom place, so the crib is in our room and my hubby has to wake at 5:30 so a 3 am 2 hour fight, on a nightly basis is too much for him too. That's  why I say we want to take the slow approach.
PS. we have bought a house that is 2 floors so I plan on nipping it in the bud when we get there. Hubby can go down stairs and sleep till its all over!

Morning naps are now the easiest for him to go down for. Originally they were the easiest, then he was refusing them, after following the advice on here I painfully endured his tiredness and kept him up longer and he went down without incidence. Well, now, he doesn't want to go down for his 2'nd NT until after 3:30. Which is WAY TOO late because come bedtime at 7pm  ... hmmm isn't tired? or is OT? Not sure. But, it has turned into an hour to 1.5 hours of screaming and crying in the crib, with me there, trying to console with him in the crib, or still doing PU PD (he's light for his age so it doesn't hurt me).
 :/ sounds exhausting just thinking about it! But man am I sooo glad i have found PU PD, Baby whisperer and all the ppl here with their advice. Thank you!
 
I can't finish this message and give our daily routine / EASY in a few days and id like to ask some more questions regarding 2-1 NT. Im pretty sure he is ready and I have been capping the morning nap, but hes stiil refusing the 2'nd until very late in the day, like I said 3:30 sometimes as late as 4 or 4:30pm but then he's awake until 8:30, and he still fights going to sleep. (but he does sleep better through the night! go figure.)

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2015, 20:39:04 pm »
Hi honey, how're you doing?
~ Naomi ~




Offline 4babycolt

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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2015, 05:29:52 am »
Hi!
I haven't replied because it's hit and miss so much; more miss than hit really. Recently DS has been waking more frequently (and screaming bc I said no to bf). Naps are a dream, mostly down to 1 a day, although the last 4 days he has been taking them pretty early; anywhere from 10:45 to 11:30 and they last 2.5 hours. 5 days ago he was taking his nap at 12:30 and sleeping for 2.5-3 hours :)
He goes to sleep really well, for naps and bed time! What a dream! but we still have 3-4 night wakings and he wont settle on his own. I'm glad i haven't tried CIO, especially a couple nights ago, he had pulled at his diaper and as a result when he pee'd at 10:30, one night, and 11 pm the other, it leaked out and soaked him and his sheets. I BF him before putting him in his crib.  I haven't cut bf during the night, though I said I would. I think I hold back bc of how little weight he is gaining; he's low on the growth charts for weight and height (though he does have a big Buddha belly!) Im going to be going back to work for 2 days a week pretty soon, I'll be working the afternoon shift, 4:30 pm - 1 am.  I wont likely be getting home until 2:30 am. sigh...
well, thats the update.

Easy
~ 7 am WU
7:30 snack
Activity, morning walk and play at park or play in backyard
9 eat breakfast
activity, some sort of outside playing
*(last few days hes been going for nap earlier but still only having 1 nap and still going to sleep at 7)
12 lunch
12:30  nap routine (read, bf. in crib awake or if he fell asleep feeding) sleeps from 2:30 -3 pm
3:15 snack
Activity play in back yard or in house
5:30 eat dinner
Activity, play with neighborhood kids or in house with dad
6:30 bath, snack, read, bf,
7 in crib awake usually asleep in 15 mins usually no fussing

habitual WU 11:30 pm, 12:30 am 3 am 5 and or 6 am
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Re: 1.5 year old, struggling w/naps and BT
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2015, 21:51:04 pm »
Hiya,

Can you remind us, how old is he now?

Am I right, he settles well for naps and Bt, but you are feeding him to calm him or to sleep depending on whether he dozes off or not? If this is the case, I think perhaps this might be a feeding to sleep prop causing all the wakings, but if you can confirm then we can help some more :)
~ Naomi ~