Author Topic: Would SO love some help 4month old MULTIPLE night wakings  (Read 833 times)

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Offline Mamer3

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Would SO love some help 4month old MULTIPLE night wakings
« on: March 18, 2015, 21:22:03 pm »
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Would really really appreciate some help. Have read lots and used this website for my DD1 5 years ago but between exhaustion and doubts I have lots of questions I would love some help with.

I think there a few issues but have started here with the night wakings. Sorry I know its so long. Thanks for reading!

DD2 is 20 weeks today. She is EBF and has never slept through the night yet.

I didnt manage to BF my other 2 children beyond the first few weeks so I am delighted to be still going strong this time and really enjoying it :-) It's been hard work though doing every single night since she was born so I would so love a bit of sleep!

She has suffered a LOT with wind at night and I believe this was the cause of her multiple wakings up until recently. I had over supply plus OALD both of which have mainly settled now. I thought this was the cause. However she was always clicking when feeding. Discovered she had both lip and tongue tie, both were released only 3 weeks ago. Finally in the last few days the clicking has almost stopped and she seems to have a lot less wind at night. She used to wake up passing loads of wind a few times a night.

She now has 1-2 feeds a night. I often think if it wasn't for wind or something else disturbing her she wouldn't wake to feed as she never seems that hungry or at least not at first. She wakes numerous times outside these feeds. 

Day time she has just started going 3 hours between most feeds with maybe 1-2 2hour gaps.

Last few nights she has woken every 30mins to an hour almost all night and I fed her around 2 and 5. Her feeds are always at different times even when its just one, so can be 3 and not feed again until morning or 4.30 or 2 and 5 etc.

Besides a handful of nights since she was born she has always had a number of wakings, unsettled, not hungry, outside of feeds, definitely 5+

At the moment I am also having a lot of trouble with her naps and struggling with constant 30 min naps. She used to do longer naps but not in recent weeks.

 When she is rested she is a very content baby who will sit for ages, content and looking around her. She is VERY attached to me and if tired or unsettled likes to only be with me but once happy she will go to anyone.

With 2 other school age children I find the 3 school runs (2 different pick up times) also really mess with her sleep etc.

New this week is I have as of today started offering her both breasts for a feed as my supply has regulated and she seems to be getting frustrated and maybe still hungry one the usual one side. Hoping this might help tonight....

The other issue is the dummy. She is using one more and more and really now at night the only thing that will settle her is popping it back in. She is in a cot right up beside my side of the bed so I just put my hand out and put it back in. I feel I may be too quick in doing this and worried in the last few nights in particular it has become a prop. I have tried today especially to put her down without it I have always ended up giving in and giving it to her. It has only meant that she has taken longer to go to sleep and so adding to the OT I think. With the dummy going to sleep is not an issue at BT or naps.

Today no school so we were home all day and this is what the EASY looked like

6.51 Wake (but this was just another one of her night wakings, 20 mins after the last, but as I was exhausted and DH had been sleeping in another room he took her up at this point to give me some sleep. We do this every morning anytime from 7, the time when I feel ok with calling him, sometimes she makes it to 7.15 or even later and if not immediately hungry I hand over, sometimes I finish a feed around 6.30 and wait with her awake to call him at 7 etc)

7.40-8.10  Sleep (she fell asleep under the cot mobile whilst he was doing jobs)

8.30 Feed (she didnt look for it for the first 20mins after she woke up)

9.55-10.25 Sleep (I went in all ready to try to extend her nap and just at the crucial moment my other 2 children started fighting and screaming the place down   and when I got back in she was awake. Tried for 20 mins to get her back but no good and only let to having to feed her as she seemed to want it by then)

10.45 Feed
12.00-13.30 Sleep (this time I did manage to extend her nap but had to hold her arms gently for nearly 30 mins to do so and then she woke again 30 mins after that)
14.05 Feed
15.25-15.50 (went in at the 20 min mark ready to extend, noticed her lovey was covering her face, moved it, she woke straight up and no going back, as above after trying to settle her ended up feeding her)

16.25 Feed
17.00-17.45 - Sleep - usual catnap
19.20  Feed

20.05 - Sleep - Lost nearly 15 mins trying to settle her without the dummy, until I gave in and gave it to her.

She used never wake before 1am but recently she is waking 1-2 times before 11pm as well.

I realised 3 days ago that even if she feeds at 7pm I can put her down at 8pm when she is tired as before this I would end up feeding her at 8 or getting her to go a bit later to nearer the 2 hour feeding mark as I thought she would need to be fed before bed. This definitely made her OT before bed. I never fed to sleep except when she falls asleep during the night at end of feed. Normal BT when I use the dummy I can put her down awake and she goes off no problems.

Am I trying to do too much with the nap lengthening and trying no dummy as well?

Her EASY looks different every single day! I loved a routine with my other 2 but with the BF this time I just cant seem to get her into one.

I will read her sleep cues fairly well I think though only this week keeping a closer eye on the normal A time for this age having read it again.

Realise I'm in the process of changing a lot, ? too much, and should wait to see how these things go, but I suppose I wanted reassurance on what I am doing!

Thanks again for reading, any advice welcome. Hope I've explained it ok! So desperate for some sleep and a break!
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 22:29:50 pm by Mamer3 »

Offline Mamer3

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Re: Would SO love some help 4month old MULTIPLE night wakings
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2015, 21:44:40 pm »
Sorry meant to do this and then forgot!! Might be too much to do it as well.... or maybe better..... sorry, its the sleep deprivation lol!

How old is your child?  20 weeks

What’s his/her daily routine?  As above, but different every day with different feed and sleep times.

What’s nap routine? Last week and a half started doing a formal nap with song, little story, dummy and lovey given to her. Up until that,  morning nap was in cot but other naps were as and when she fell asleep, often in the moses basket in the kitchen just watching us or in the car seat or buggy after a school run

How long are naps? 30 mins

What's bedtime routine? Time? Again recently include the little song, cuddle and story sitting beside the cot etc. Besides that it has always been a set  - change, into nightime babygro and feed in the sitting room then brought down awake and put into cot, most times looked for dummy, odd time fell asleep without it, settled very quickly once dummy given from the beginning.  Just changed time in last 3 days to a good hour or so earlier.

Do you bottle or breastfed?? Breastfeed

How much? or how long? 6 times per day and 1-2 at night. Just changed evening routing so now 5 during the day.

If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed) Always 1 up until last few days when offered 2 some feeds, today offered 2 St all feeds and she happily took the second side and fed again, she is definitely getting frustrated with the first less full side.

How many wakes per night? Too many to count!!! Has always been 5++++

What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? Starts to cry/fuss. I probably havent left her too much to see.... Dummy only thing that settles her. Often turn on a little light to observe her, not showing hunger signs except once or twice a night when the dummy wont settle her.

When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? Recently it has become more shouty... but will escalate.

What have you tried to settle?? Dummy! Without the dummy, shush pat but she grabs desperately at my face and hands and holds on tight and even tries to latch/suck on my face. Also white noise but rarely works. Shush pat worked so well with my DD1 so I was hopeful :-(

What do you do for A time and how long is it? Mainly in moses basket in kitchen with little toys, teething rings etc and watching siblings, on gym mat on the floor or cot with mobile. Always a little chat, cuddle interaction after feed and on and off all day when on the playmat etc. Needs to fit in around school runs etc unfortunately, we go in the car or often walk and she will almost always fall asleep though less so recently.

Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? Not that I am aware of....

Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months) No, waiting until 6 months.

Do they have a prop? If so what is it? I feel dummy has recently become one. More and more she keeps it in her mouth and needs it back in during naps and at night.

Do they have a lovie? Yes but its more me giving it to her to try to replace dummy but no luck, the only thing is help a little with is giving her something to hold onto as her hands are always going and she often now takes a hold of her dummy and pulls it out and holds onto it but cant get it back in!

Hope that helps!!
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 22:38:42 pm by Mamer3 »

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Re: Would SO love some help 4month old MULTIPLE night wakings
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2015, 19:39:56 pm »
Hello and welcome back to BW :)
Congratulations on the birth of your DD2!

Sorry you didn't get a reply to your post yet. Hang in there someone will get to you shortly, I'm sure you'll find the site just as supportive as it was last time you were around :)

Offline weaver

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Re: Would SO love some help 4month old MULTIPLE night wakings
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2015, 20:49:03 pm »
Hi hun, so sorry you've been waiting for a reply and huge congratulations on getting to where you are with the BFing.  Well done :)  As you say, you've had OALD issues as well as tongue and lip tie to deal with, so I'm sure it's felt like a battle and you're brilliant to have made it this far.  But be assured that it's perfectly possible to BF and not have 5+ NWs every night! (I wouldn't have survived it!).  I would keep offering both sides at every feed at this point, it's normal for this age, and she may be having a growth spurt as there's one right around that 4 mo mark.

As far as I can see, she basically hasn't been on a routine at all.  What might be happening is that she's never really made a difference between day and night (what do you think?).  So I think what would be a good idea would be to start trying to get her into one now.  The general idea is that if you work on day time sleep, night time will follow.   Because you have to do school runs, you need to think about what pattern of routine would suit you best.  Maybe if she did a short nap during the first school run, a long nap in the middle of the day at home, and another short one in the buggy or car?  Something like that?

Average A time at 4 mos is around 1 hr 45-2 hrs.  I would start now trying to encourage her to stay awake for that long in between naps, that time is from eyes open to eyes closed.  So if you can time it so she's going in the buggy at what *should be* a nap time, it might encourage her to take a longer sleep at that time.  Try to get her in the cot in the middle of the day, the correct A time (for her).

Would you say the wakings are as frequent now since the lip and tongue tips are sorted and the OALD has settled down?  Does she sleep any better if held upright - I mean if you have her in a sling or something?  I'm just trying to get an idea of what's going on. Very frequent waking can mean discomfort of some sort, usually digestive at this age, though some of those WUs are probably OT.  Has the question of reflux ever been raised?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 21:19:35 pm by weaver »
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Offline Mamer3

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Re: Would SO love some help 4month old MULTIPLE night wakings
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2015, 23:16:29 pm »
Hi Weaver, thanks to you and Creations for your replies :-)

And no need to apologise at all! There was an awful lot to read! And in fact just writing it all out made me think about it all and I realised I did need to try again to get her into a routine! And that she was ready for one now too.

So for 4 days I worked at getting her into one and now such a difference already!!!

She had just started going from feeding 2 hourly during the day to 3 hourly so that helped. At first I couldnt extend the naps at all no matter what I did, but then suddenly on the 5th day she did it herself! I wrote down my EASY everyday, could see what I needed to do and then all of a sudden yesterday and today went so well! She started sleeping longer at naps and one feed at night with one or two short night wakings ONLY (amazing!)  and even settling herself often with no dummy, both to go to sleep and during the night once even!

Her EASY today was the best yet...

7.05 Wake

7.15 Feed

2 hour A time
9.05-10.55 Sleep - didnt have to go near her at all!

11.50 Feed - such a long gap! Maybe too long? She just didnt look for it before this

2.05 A time
13.00-14.15 Sleep - same again, didnt have to go in

15.40 Feed

3 hour 15 min A time (not good)
17.30-18.00 Sleep - this was the only place I had trouble with. After 2 hours up (16.15) still no sleep signs, at 16.30 I thought I'd just go by the clock as up 2hrs 15 now and so put her down. No way would she settle, she just didnt seem tired, kept spitting the dummy out, big smile every time I went in and then crying when I left. I started to doubt she was tired so took her up. 50 mins later she finally seemed tired, put her down, she fought it a good bit but after around 10mins settled herself, with no dummy. And as I expected then woke up 30 mins later. So Im guessing definitely OT. I was glad it got her back on track for an earlier BT but had wanted her CN to be an hour+ earlier.

Then did night time routine and feed from 19.00, she was in cot by 19.30 but needed a bit of resettling, dummy in etc and was asleep by 7.45 approx.

The previous day was similar but I APOP 2 of the naps to stretch them out so it was so good to see her do it herself at home today!

And yes I am so aware of the sleep etc times now that I can see how I can fit them in around school runs etc or at least hopefully!

I cant believe she is having only 4 feeds a day and one at night! Such a change. I presume because it is so led by her (Im still feeding on demand, she's just demanding a lot less!) that my supply will be ok? Feeding on both sides is definitely necessary now as she is just no longer satisfied with one side now my supply has regulated. She does pull on and off all the time now, and I worry sometimes that there is no longer enough to feed her, though I know this is not supposed to be a sign of same. Its just odd to have so much less milk now!

She is making the 2 hours or just under no problem and now I am watching her and the clock can see she yawns etc right on time! Only issue was as above not seeming tired for the last catnap until too late, maybe I missed it though.....? She will be 5 month old next weekend so maybe ready for one slightly longer A time? Though definitely not too long! Or like everything else in another few days her whole day might fall into place....

And yes I did forget to mention she has been on Omeprazole for silent reflux since she was 2 weeks old. My other 2 also had reflux so I recognised it quickly and got in there quick with the medication and so the esophagitis didnt develop. She is definitely growing out of the reflux in recent weeks so will wean her off them soon, but yes yet another reason for her constant wakings.

I feel with all the different issues sorted and the routine in place now we are finally getting there!! So happy for her and me!! :-) Maybe some more sleep at last! And if she continues to have big sleeps during the day as well I wont know myself!

So thanks for your help, this site is great! Even before your reply just re reading everything and thinking about it all after writing it out I could see what needed to change :-) Thanks! Fingers crossed this continues!

« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 23:53:31 pm by Mamer3 »

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Re: Would SO love some help 4month old MULTIPLE night wakings
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2015, 10:21:27 am »
Really great to read such a positive update :)

this site is great!
Yes I think so too :) :) I've been here for 4 years now and could not be without it!

Even before your reply just re reading everything and thinking about it all after writing it out I could see what needed to change
Often the case for me too. I often wonder if BW has the power to resolve difficulties just by posting them!  I do agree it is very helpful to just write down all your thoughts, the times, the moods of LO, what's happened over time or in the day etc, it really helps to see the whole picture.  Of course it can also often help to have another pair of eyes looking form the outside.

Just thinking about the reflux meds... you said you might be weaning soon but also mention her bobbing off the breast at feeds recently. Could it be that with a growth spurt she is having some discomfort? Possibly needing a meds increase?  It sounds like you are well clued in to the reflux etc but just thought I'd mention the possibility. I've seen other LOs in discomfort through GSs and my own needed a meds increase which was delayed too long for not realising it was needed.
We do have a board if you wanted a bit more info or to post there
Colic, Reflux, & Crying
If not now then perhaps for support when it comes to that wean when the time is right?