Author Topic: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed  (Read 2687 times)

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Offline LaraDaisy

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3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« on: March 19, 2015, 17:10:07 pm »
hello everyone!
I am a tired (physically and emotionally) mum to a touchy 3mo boy. Since he turned 2 mo he started having short naps of 20-30 min on top of eating every two hrs. So I started doing EASY routine, which helped with the eating - now it is every 3hrs and sometimes I feel he can go longer. He was on 3 hr routine - almost by the book, except for his short naps. Last week there were some improvements even - he was taking 30 or 40 min naps by himself and after I was trying to extend them and normally succeeded by either holding him or wearing him in a sling. The last couple of days have been a disaster! He fights at the beginning of each nap, unless he is OT, then it is a bit easier to put him to sleep, he sleeps for 20 min by himself in his crib and then wakes up and just keeps kicking and thrashing (even though he is tired - he is yawning like crazy) resisting my attempts to put him to sleep. Which means the whole schedule is totally messed up.
Today, for example, was like this:
6:45 wake up
7:00 feed
7:50 stared shsh pat to put him to sleep to avoid him being OT
8:10 sleep
8:50 woke up and nothing I did made him fall sleep (even though he was clearly tired)
9:50 eat
10:50 fell asleep, I started shsh pat but he was resisting and after about 20 or 30 min I totally freaked out and just left the room :( he fell asleep by himself
11:00 woke up but this time shsh pat worked and he fell asleep
11:20 woke up and I took him in my arms and he slept quite long
13:20 woke up (I moved from my arms to his crib 20 min earlier)
13:30 eat
14:30 put him in a sling
14:40 he fell asleep
16:00 I woke him up
16:10 eat
17:00 started putting him to sleep but he just refused. Now it is 17:52, I am now feeding him. Then the bath.
For the night sleep he is also not so easy to fall ssleep but once he falls asleep (normally it is between 19:30 and 20:00) he will wake up several times till 21:00-21:30 and then I give him another cluster feed and if he wakes up more it is easy to shsh him back to sleep.
In terms of DF I very seldom succeed to give it to him, h is in such deep sleep.
Then at night he wakes up 2 or 3 times to eat. If there was DF it is 1 and 4, if no DF can be the same or can be 12 and 3 and 5.
Am I doing something wrong???? Why suddenly the fighting of naps? Any ideas and advice is welcome!!! Because today I was just totally loosing my temper, which makes me feel like a terrible mother and person. It is just that I am so tired of the nap issues! I feel like my whole days I do nothing but trying to get him to eat ( he is a fussy eater) and to fall asleep and then trying to keep him sleeping...
Thank you in advance!
P.s. Now he is tired and tries to sleep on the breast, feel so cruel to keep him awake...
Lara
Lara

Offline weaver

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2015, 21:38:27 pm »
Hi Lara,
Sorry you're feeling tired :( hopefully we can help you two out a bit.

Average A time for 3 mo is 1 hr 20-30 mins.  That's eyes open to eyes shut, and is an average so individual babies can be higher or lower sleep needs. 

Looking at your first cycle, you're starting your wind down after 1 hr 5 mins awake time, and he's going to sleep after 1 hr 25 mins (20 mins after you started your wind-down).  He's then taking a 40 min nap, and doesn't want to go back to sleep.  40 mins + not resettling is classic undertired behaviour.  I'd say that you need to make his A time a bit more active :)  nothing major, but if you look at it, he's spending 20 mins of it in wind-down mode, so no wonder he's not very tired.  I wouldn't go crazy with activities, of course, still keep it low-key, particularly as he's touchy - lying on a blanket looking at the world, a walk around with you, looking out the window, all those sorts of things - just make more use of, say, 10 mins of the A time, and then see if he settles more. 

Do bear in mind that he needs enough awake time in order to be tired for his naps - so in the afternoon where he enjoys a lovely long nap in the sling to 16h (and that's after a broken but long nap 2)  I really would not expect him to be tired again at 17h.  Then without a CN, he's getting a bit OT by BT, and waking in the first part of the night.

Overall, I think you just need a bit of a routine tweak, to find the right balance.  My hunch is that you're tending to go for under-tired (as a cautious mama :) very sensible) and that he's fighting a bit and getting overtired in the course of the day.

My LO1 was touchy too so I understand your instinct to avoid OT like the plague but as these babies keep on growing and changing their needs, and we need to keep up (or try to :P).

Have you seen the touchy baby thread?  You might find it interesting
Support thread for raising touchy babies - part 2
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline weaver

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2015, 20:21:01 pm »
How are you guys getting on?
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline LaraDaisy

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2015, 21:32:58 pm »
Hi Anne!
I am sorry I kinda disappeared: short napper + being on my own (DH is on business trip and no friends/family around) do not leave a lot of free time  :)
first of all, huge thanks from me for pointing out he is UT. Now that I tweaked his awake time (to 1hr20-1hr30min) he goes to sleep better and faster in most cases, which is a great improvement from the time I was looking for help! Thanks again!
 But unfortunately his naps length has not improved. I put him to sleep after 1hr20-1hr30min of A time and he sleeps 20-30-45 min max, after that in most cases I can resettle him, but only once I managed to resettle him in his crib, all other times he either falls asleep in my arms while I just sit on the bed and read a book or I put him in a sling and clean or do grocery shopping or just go out for a walk (we live next to a lake in the mountains and sometimes it feels like a crime to stay inside while the weather is so wonderful :) in my arms or ina sling he can sleep for hours and hours. So i know for a fact he can sleep longer then 45 min during the day, he just cannot do it on his own. Is there a way to encourage him settling in his crib instead of falling asleep on me? I sometimes think that I create some kind of bad habit by doing the described above scenario...
 
Also, I have a question regarding his S time: the 2hr rule applies to the whole period between feedings or is it 2hr in one stretch? For example, I put him to sleep and he sleeps by himself for 20 min, after I take him in my arms and I let him sleep for 2hrs. Should i keep him sleeping for only 1hr40min since he already slept 20? I hope I am explaining it clear, I am a bit tired now :)

also, can babies change character? turn from touchy to textbook or angel, for example? just curious :)

I have the impression there some other things I wanted to clarify but currently cannot keep my thoughts together, so that's it for the moment :)
 
oh and also thanks for giving the link to the touchy thread! I read the "try to enjoy it as much as you can" advice many times before but somehow only after reading some messages from fellow touchy LO mothers it really hit home and I try to enjoy every moment with my baby! and try not to wish that he grows faster! because he grows already soooo fast it is amazing!

Lara
Lara

Offline LaraDaisy

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2015, 21:42:07 pm »
I remembered some of my questions:)
- does his mood waking up have anything to do with him being OT or UT?
Sometime she wakes up quietly and just lays still in his crib looking around and being very calm. And sometimes he wakes up crying and quite irritated and before I feed him I spend some time getting him to calm down.
- the same question about him falling asleep while eating: sometimes I just cannot keep him awake, he just falls asleep and has some kind of sleep-eating thing, his eyes are shut but still continues to eat (not as active compared to being awake but not like non-nutritive nursing either) and if i persist in trying to wake him up he starts crying and that i just cannot take, so i just let him sleep-eat. Does it mean he is OT? because usually it happen in the second part of the day.
Lara

Offline weaver

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2015, 21:49:59 pm »
I'm a big fan of sling naps, and I used to do exactly what you're doing with LO2 sometimes - if the nap didn't work, make it up with the sling. So do it, and make yourselves both happy walking by the lake, sounds like heaven! it's good to start naps in the crib, so that he's used to that.  He's just barely three months old so you're doing well to be thinking of this now.  It's completely natural that he'd want to sleep in your arms at this age.  It's just when they're bigger, it gets really impractical!

As for the different lengths of naps, they all mean something different, so, if you can start, writing things down and see if you can work out what's going on. To me, 20 mins means he hasn't settled properly and needs more of a wind-down (or is perhaps overstimulated?) as he's jolted himself awake.  You can help with that by gently laying hands on him just around that 20 mins mark, before he jolts.  30 mins as a rule means Over Tired, and 40 mins generally Under Tired.  This isn't necessarily true of all babies, but it's a good rule of thumb.  So hopefully that bit of info will assist in figuring him out.

You might have seen on the touchy thread, but some of us touchy mamas reckon a good routine is the key to a happy touchy baby.  Hope we can help you with that!

I don't know about babies changing their traits - I suppose it's possible! My touchy boy is a sensitive wee person still. You could start a post on that in the Lounge. I'm sure you'd get some good stories :D
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline MommaStorms

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2015, 12:07:27 pm »
Maybe he is textbook but turns a little touchy (like most of is) when we are OT?

My DS will be 4 months in a couple days and I'm going through the same thing!
-Laura




Offline LaraDaisy

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2015, 19:18:21 pm »
MommaStorms, oh I so wish he was a textbook baby! :) We are visiting family next week - first time family from DH side will see our LO and they have a huge family so I will see how he reacts to lots of people and stimulation... Maybe I misdiagnosed him :)

In the meantime things are pretty same here: short naps mostly of 20-30mins after which either sling or in my arms. So i guess he is mostly OT but I take that over UT in any case - at least I can extend his naps like this :) Night sleep is still the same - wakes up two times to eat and wake up at 6-30. Now reading everything I can find on dropping the NFs and EWs.

Lara

Offline ~Jen~

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2015, 19:47:43 pm »
Hi Lara, just dropping in to say you are not alone. I have a touchy DD2 almost same age and we are experiencing the same thing. Chronic short naps, everyday every nap. It ranges from 30-45 mins and I am tired of trying to tweak each A time.  I often extend in the carrier although as she gets older I find it harder as A times increase. I actually think most of the time our naps are UT but she is so hard to read that I can't be sure. All naps are short so no help there. She is very happy despite sleep deprivation. She is my 3rd LO and the hardest to get on any sort of routine.



Offline MommaStorms

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2015, 23:09:48 pm »
He's 3months and wakes 2x a night? That sounds about right, right?
My guy has started waking more at night I think bc he's OT from all these short naps! I sure do love the little guy and want to cherish his round cheeks and toothless smile but it will be nice when he isn't so much work in the sleep department, if you know what I mean!!


-Laura




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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2015, 17:57:15 pm »
Yes 2 NFs are entirely normal at this age. :)  and a DF!

Have a look on the touchy thread, there are some great posts there about touchy babies and 'big occasions'.  If you have a sling, I would use it to help him keep calm, don't be afraid to take a break from the 'main event' if he needs it, and such. I wouldn't necessarily expect him to be happy to be held by anyone/everyone, there may be exceptions, you may have a pleasant surprise on that front, but watch him and intervene as necessary.  it might be that he can handle anything...from the safety and comfort of momma's arms!

Just to reiterate that 20 and 30 min naps mean different things - see my first post above - and the 20 mins nap thing can usually be addressed through a good wind-down and holding through the jolts if necessary.
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline MommaStorms

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2015, 18:12:17 pm »
http://m.sevenslings.com

This is the sling I have! 40% today. I love it!
-Laura




Offline LaraDaisy

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2015, 19:10:26 pm »
Hi everyone! Thank you for nice words and suggestions! It means so much to me!!!
Yesterday I almost posted a happy post - all 3 naps he slept for 45 min and then some more in my arms or in a sling!!! I was so surprised! But I guess he decided to compensate during the night - he woke up 3 times to eat and multiple times due to gas, and was sleeping very bad-kicking and thrashing around and moaning and grunting (he sleeps in a co-sleeper on my side of the bed so I was shushing him a lot last night). And today he is very fussy and difficult :( and his schedule is going all over the place... Well, life with a baby...

Anne, I took that into account the ( the duration of naps) and now trying to improve ) I read some posts on the touchy thread and told my DH that I get to decide when we leave and also if necessary I will carry him in a sling! And I will not care what other people think! They are not the ones who will have to comfort un upset baby!

Jen, thank you! I know I am not the only person in the world with such issues! And it helps to know that!! And allow me to say Wow! I am in awe of you - having 3 little ones! You are a hero! I sometimes totally loose it with one and I cannot even imagine how much patience you have!

MommaStorms, I so hear you: I know it is not a good thing but I am also guilty of wishing for an easier baby! After all mine is suffering from gas and is turning into a very fussy eater and his naps are difficult! The other day I was reading the thread with samples of easy routines and was so envious of all those people saying that their baby is sleeping through the night at 10 or 8 weeks! At 8 weeks I had to get up every 2 hrs a lot of nights! And i do try to fight those feelings and thoughts! After all he is one of a kind baby-he has his own personality and his own good and bad sides and the only thing I can do is love him the way he is!

I wish us all a lot of patience and understanding!


Lara

Offline ~Jen~

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2015, 19:57:12 pm »
In some ways it is easier because I have the benefit of BTDT... I know it gets easier and how quickly the time goes as they grow up so fast.  I try and say that to myself at least once a day.   ;)

We too have moved onto the 45mins naps.  Thats longer than most naps we used to get.  Actually, we've had almost all 45mins the past 2 days so today I started to push her A times and made some progress.  I think she is about to transition onto a 4hr EASY.  The hard part is that she cries if she is UT and OT... she has such a narrow window for a good nap.   I never know what I am going to get until I see when she wakes.  She is such a mystery to me. I'm going by the clock these days as her tired cues are unreliable and I keep putting her down too early!  I think that has caused more NWings for us. 

Could you try adding some more A and see where it gets you?  Just remember to go very slowly with a touchy.  Start off with just 5-10mins with low key activity and wind-down. 



Offline LaraDaisy

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Re: 3mo short napper: help and support so needed
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2015, 14:17:49 pm »
Hi Jen! After Sunday I actually tried it and it is totally unclear to me what is happening: sometimes he goes asleep after 1hr40min almost at the moment his head touches the crib. And sleep for 45 min and the next naps no way it is easy - he is fighting and struggling and waking up after 20-30 min! Just now I was fighting him for 30min, he was showing signs of overstimulation so the last 20 min of his A time he is the crib just looking around, trying to find his thuumb. So I try to swaddle him and get him to sleep, no way! He was fighting the swaddle and crying the annoyed cry, so I decided to free one arm, did not help. I freed both arms. He was still crying and trying to shove his arms up to his elbows into his mouth. So I thought maybe he was hungry and for the first time in 1,5 months gave him boob before nap. He ate for 6 min quite vigorously. Then I put him down, he was still fussing a bit, but after I reinserted the paci three times  and he jolted like 5 times he finally fell asleep, with both arms out. But with the paci. This morning he fell asleep with one arm out. I guess the swaddle is finished for us.
And the feeding him - I know that is a huge no-no but I think he does not eat enough, he became a very fussy eater a few weeks ago, I thought it was reflux first, now we are on meds for it, but he still fusses and when the midwife asked me if he takes the bottle better when he fusses it turned out he is! Starts crying even near the breast but happily takes 40ml of the milk that I pumped previously! I guess I have to head to the breastfeeding forum for some advice...
And Jen I so do understand you about the cues being difficult!!! Three days ago I was thinking I got him figured out but the last days it is like I have no idea whatsoever of what he wants and why he cries or fusses!!!
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 14:20:38 pm by LaraDaisy »
Lara