Author Topic: Undo APOP for 21.5 month old (Read 2744 times)

MarciaMSPT · « **on:** March 26, 2015, 00:45:51 am »

I started APOP back at the 18 month sleep regression and all though it has waxed and waned, I've never been able to really stop the holding to sleep now. Naps seem a bit better but NT can take awhile. sometimes 30 minutes. Our EASY looks like this:

7 up
7:30 eat
10ish snack
12ish eat
1:30 nap
3:00 up (I wake up to preserve BT at 8 - or at least try to preserve it).
3:00 snack
5:15ish eat
6:30 bath
7:15 family worship time
8:00 BT (can take up to 30+ minutes for a wind down)

Maybe my EASY needs tweaked - I fear I am holding onto a long a nap as possible for ME instead of giving him what he needs - which may be less sleep.
We've had EW on and off and my DS is now asking for everything at bedtime - food, water, songs, story etc etc. To avoid the crying, I just hold him, give him water, some grapes if I think he's really needing some food and just sing to him until he falls asleep.

How do I go about bringing back his Independent sleep? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #1 on:** March 26, 2015, 22:23:28 pm »

If he's been on this routine with a 1.5 hour nap for a while, BT resistance can definitely be a sign that something needs to change, like perhaps capping the nap a little more. I think falling asleep independently is always harder when LOs are UT so it is worth trying to get the pattern of day vs night sleep right at this age.

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #2 on:** March 26, 2015, 22:39:36 pm »

Would you suggest a 15 minute cap or 30 minute cap... going from 1.5 hours to 1 hour seems like a big jump but needing some advice... thanks!

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #3 on:** March 26, 2015, 22:51:22 pm »

I would probably try for 1 hour, but if you feel more comfortable with 1hr15 then give that a go for a few days to a week and see how you get on.

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #4 on:** March 26, 2015, 23:43:41 pm »

Also - would it be better for me to simply extend his wake time since naps are a bit rough too going down? Or simply allow a shorter nap? Thanks

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #5 on:** March 27, 2015, 15:39:01 pm »

I would try a shorter nap first and try and keep BT at around the same time to begin with, after a week we can always look and see how this is helping

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #6 on:** March 27, 2015, 17:44:08 pm »

OK... thanks so much! I think we are getting 2 year molars as well... fussy eating, rough night wakings... two per night for the past three nights. He went down early today 1 instead of 1:30 so will see what 2:30 holds. wish me luck.

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #7 on:** March 27, 2015, 20:10:09 pm »

Good luck lovely

if you think he's uncomfortable with the teeth, it can make routine change difficult (as it's hard to know what is the routine and what is the teeth), but if you are able to keep him comfortable with meds or other methods then you should be fine.

N x

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2015, 18:15:33 pm »

I'm not sure, like you said what's routine and whats teeth and really, what's developmental leaps at this point!

I couldn't wake him up at 2:30 a couple days ago like I said - he just would not wake up...so I let him sleep till 3. He was a new little guy that afternoon, slept through the night that night although he didn't fall asleep till 9 on my lap.

Due to circumstances, he only got a 45 min nap in the car yesterday and had an awful time falling asleep, up twice in the night... only slept in about 30 extra minutes this morning... hum... he may just need more day sleep and less night sleep - oh how I hate to give up a decent BT.

He's also started a little routine at bedtime that goes like this: eat? food? milk? book? story? down? dadda? and on and on. I was giving him food last week when he asked for it because he and I had both been so sick and not much of an appetite... but not sure if that is causing tummy upset at night - if it's just a habit to push BT later or if he really needs it. Any thoughts?

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2015, 18:18:02 pm »

I know how you feel, my DD definitely preferred keeping a long nap and went quite late with BT before she shifted and cut the nap finally.

Are you medicating for possible teething? If you're trying paracetamol equivalents might be worth trying ibuprofen as this works much better for the teething pressure that teething can cause.

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2015, 18:25:40 pm »

Well, at least it's good to know I"m not alone with this! I'll try to cut his nap about 15 minutes this week and see how things go. And start BT wind down earlier.

I'm really not convinced it's teething at this point. when he wakes up crying, he's not got his fingers in his mouth and stops crying the moment I pick him up... but I've got ibuprofen ready and waiting for when he needs it. so many variables... did I lose the instruction booklet for him?!

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2015, 19:14:46 pm »

Did you have an instruction booklet - wow!!! Where did you get it, I want one

xxx

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #12 on:** March 30, 2015, 18:03:24 pm »

Well, after 1 hr 15 min sleep yesterday for nap, I thought for sure we would have a miraculous night, but not so... wakes 2.5 hours after I put him down. I hold him for an hour and then put him down again and then he wakes up 2-2.5 hours later. I thought for sure he was just too hot last night but he is just resisting going down for his nap ferociously now. We've jumped from about 1:30 now to 1:50. I wish I could just still put him down at 1:30 and cut him short instead of waiting longer... still cutting it off by 3pm at this point. Is this normal to start the 1-0 transition so young?

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #13 on:** March 30, 2015, 18:19:09 pm »

It is perfectly normal, I know are others here who have LOs who have dropped the nap sooner than that. Has he always been LSN?

What have you been trying, could you write it in EAS Format for me, it's slightly easier to see what's going on.

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #14 on:** March 30, 2015, 21:36:41 pm »

well, I think I'm just starting to surrender to a shorter nap for him instead of thinking it's teething or sickness or or or...

Wakes at 7 (lately 7:30 since rough nights wakes 2x in the night)
eats 7:30
10 snack
nap 1:45 (almost two today due to resistance)
snack 3 or 3:30
supper 5:30ish
BT 8 - but often not till 8:30ish falling asleep.

He slept one hour today and has been very happy all afternoon!!! Really?!?!?! So used to a fussy baby all afternoon. Maybe he's fussy because he has too much sleep? Thanks for your thoughtful help and time to consider my questions.

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #15 on:** March 30, 2015, 22:08:31 pm »

You are very welcome honey, I hope it helps, keep me posted

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2015, 01:08:51 am »

Even with only an hour nap, still would not fall asleep today for BT until 8:30

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #17 on:** April 01, 2015, 07:10:34 am »

How did things go yesterday and last night? Any better? What time did you go for the nap?

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #18 on:** April 02, 2015, 12:00:57 pm »

So, nap was not till 2 and I capped it at an hour. Ibuprofen the night before last. Slept through the night.

Yesterday, 1 hour nap (car due to errands) and did not fall asleep for BT till 8:30. Woke 2x in the night. Usually 2 hours later and then two hours later again...then sleeps till morning.

Help?! $:-\$

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2015, 21:42:43 pm »

So the night you have ibuprofen he slept right through?

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #20 on:** April 03, 2015, 18:15:09 pm »

He slept through one night with ibuprofen but then woke the next two nights with ibuprofen.

Yesterday, due to errands, he slept for 40 minutes in the car going and then 1 hr and 15 min coming home. Wonderful afternoon. Didn't fall asleep till 8:20 and only woke once -this time 4 hours later instead of 2, and went right back to sleep. When he woke up, he more or less just puttered around until I decided that his "mamma" was not going to stop...but it was a very calm putter, nothing frantic etc. Should I let him go for longer before I go in to him?

Seems he was getting very overtired so he may need a couple days of shorter naps and then a longer nap... I've read that some mamma's have that going on.

Any thoughts?

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #21 on:** April 04, 2015, 08:26:17 am »

Yes sometimes they do get OT on the one nap alone and need a two nap day to catch up. It's difficult as this is something we can't really plan for but is more take it as it comes. I found cat naps were a really helpful thing for catch ups when DD was going through this phase.

So when you described going to him as he's puttering, is he crying for you? When LOs reach this age, our presence can sometimes be more stimulating at night, so I tend to only go to Dd of she sounds distressed, rather than just grumbling calling out. I wouldn't feel bad about going to him, as you know we always advocate going in if you're not sure, but if you do think he's ok really, you could try reassuring with your voice first to see if that helps.

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #22 on:** April 05, 2015, 18:11:26 pm »

he's taken one nap for a looooong time. Yesterday was a short 45 minute nap with two night wakings and very wrestless. He's not one to just crash when he's super tired. Sleep begets sleep for him. I took him in the stroller today to chill him out... he fell asleep at 1:20ish and so when I got home I just put him in his crib. Letting him sleep till his hearts content for now. His nose is runny and ? teething again? Would those molars just make their debut already!?!?!

I'll give him meds tonight. My hubby and I were talking about just letting him fuss as he's not distressed, it's just that now instead of crying forever, he calls mama, mama. He seems quit pleased at his success! When I pick him up, he wants his blankie, his stuffed tiger and his "cozy" blanket - argh! And off we go to the lazy boy chair...

If he wakes now, my hubby and I have decided to talk over the speaker thing using voice... we figure a few rough nights with that? Voice has never worked in the past. Have I read something about walk in walk out here? My search feature does not work. anddddd I'm getting pretty desperate about this.

Thanks again.

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #23 on:** April 09, 2015, 01:42:23 am »

I hope you can still hang with me. I'm not wanting to resort to cry it out... I never did and I'm so against it, but I don't know what to do. After trying shorter naps and longer naps and everything in between, I'm convinced that my little guy has come to have to be in mommy's arms to fall asleep - therefore if he wakes up in the night, well, of course, I'm not there so he cries for me.

Please help me know what to do... should I post another question in Props instead of here? thank you thank you thank you.

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #24 on:** April 09, 2015, 19:47:59 pm »

Hi honey, I'm sorry I've been crazy at work and so I've not been about so much. Of course I can hang out. Will read your posts now and have a think.

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #25 on:** April 09, 2015, 19:51:58 pm »

Ok, so if you think it is a prop issue, then it sounds like maybe there is one. No worries about posting elsewhere as this is he right place for you as he's a toddler

Have you seen the post about sleep training for toddlers? I think gradual withdrawal will work for you. Have a read and then let me know what you think, we can make a plan together!

Toddlers: Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #26 on:** April 09, 2015, 23:11:12 pm »

Thank you so much for getting back with me!

WU is at 7.
First nap used to be 1:30 to 2. Now lucky if it's 1:45 or 2 to 3.
BT used to be 8 - now lucky if he falls asleep by 8:30 or 8:45.

So, two nights ago, I started by doing the same routine to bed which is family worship, walk with dad outside, sit with mom inside - mom sings songs, quotes Bible verses and talks about our day, bedtime prayers and then quiet until he falls asleep in my arms - then I put him down. Two days ago I waited till he was drowsy but not asleep and listened to him fuss and call for me for 1.5 hours. I caved. It was more than I could handle. He woke once that night and I held him to sleep. Last night I caved in at 20 minutes. (I also started playing soft music the last two nights after leaving the room, but he fussed right through it.) He woke once last night and I held him to sleep - putting him down about 30 minutes later instead of just plopping in the lazy boy with him and sleeping in it with him - usually 2-3 hours till I wake up and put him back to bed.

Nap yesterday - he fussed for about 5 minutes and that was it. Slept 1.5 hours. Nap today was in the car and only 1 hour (?)

So... I started holding him to sleep back at 18 months with the canines coming in... I thought it would last for a season and then we would be back to my champion sleeper. He used to put himself to sleep!!!! Now, he HAS. TO. HAVE. MOMMY!

So, can you help me with a plan? I'm also worried that I'm forcing x hours of sleep on him when he needs less than that at 22 months. I feel like I'm just winging it now.

Buntybear · « **Reply #27 on:** April 12, 2015, 21:40:44 pm »

Hi There,

I think gradual withdrawal could help you here. and putting him down drowsy but not asleep is a very good start.

Quote from: MarciaMSPT on April 09, 2015, 23:11:12 pm

Two days ago I waited till he was drowsy but not asleep and listened to him fuss and call for me for 1.5 hours. I caved. It was more than I could handle.

When you say he fussed for 1.5 hours where you with him? With GW you would need to be right there next to him giving that reassurance that you were there for him. I would put him down and just stay next to his cot. If he cries then you could put a hand on him and soothe him with your voice. Or just use your voice.

Over a matter of days you should be able to back out the door once he has been put down.

How does that sound?

Buttonbobs · « **Reply #28 on:** April 17, 2015, 21:29:41 pm »

^^this sounds like a good idea. How are you getting on?

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #29 on:** April 28, 2015, 19:10:44 pm »

Hi there... well, here's what happened.

After that initial 1.5 hours of fussing for me (I was not in the room, had I been it would have been screaming instead of fussing), I knew I had to do something - like stick with something! No caving etc...but wasn't sure how.

My hubby spent a lot of time connecting with our little guy (he's gone a lot for work) and about 4 days after that initial "try" he put my LO down for bed and I spent the night at a friends down the road. He fussed for me for just under and hour, fell asleep and slept the night. The next night my DH put him down again, he said momma twice and that was it till morning. The next night, nothing till morning. The 3rd night, DH put him down and I was home... said momma 4-5 times and that was it, slept the whole night. The fifth night I put him down - he didn't fuss for me, he DEMANDED me - for about 7 minutes and that was that. Nothing since then... except a couple night waking that resettled without help.

The first night I was away was horrible for me - just plain awful, but I knew I had to do this. the next day, I put a timer in his room about 15 min before nap time... I read, sang and prayed and put him down. (I had told him 3x that morning and mid morning the plan). He went down and said my name about 5 times, then read his book and talked to our KiKi cat who was in the crib with him... since then I've been doing the same thing. He's been not falling asleep till 30 minutes later and when I cap the nap at 3, he only gets one hour so I moved our routine back a bit so now he's falling asleep about 1:30-1:45 and sleeping till 3:15ish. I'm working on letting him wake since he's going down at night so well.

We are all happy and well rested now! And that is my success story!

thank you for all your help!

weaver · « **Reply #30 on:** May 01, 2015, 20:43:43 pm »

Great to hear you are happy and feeling more settled now. Hope all is still going well.

Just to point out for anyone reading this thread that we strongly advocate always responding to your child - whether a crying baby or a toddler calling your name. The key is how to respond, and that can range from going in and picking up to speaking reassuringly from outside the door. But no child, of whatever age, should be left to cry or call out unattended. That is at the heart of the BW ethos of listening to and respecting your child, as I think we all agree.

MarciaMSPT · « **Reply #31 on:** May 03, 2015, 17:26:47 pm »

And just to note - my husband did respond to our little guy. At one point he walked in to reassure him. Later, he took him milk when he started saying "eat" and still later, he went in to hug him and reassure him that mommy would be back.

Buntybear · « **Reply #32 on:** May 07, 2015, 21:23:24 pm »

Lovely update

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Author Topic: Undo APOP for 21.5 month old (Read 2744 times)