Author Topic: Regression or some tweaking needed?  (Read 709 times)

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Offline Emami

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Regression or some tweaking needed?
« on: March 26, 2015, 17:21:29 pm »
I see a lot of posts about troublesome 4 month olds, and mine is joining in the shenanigans  ::) :-\

She is 4.5 months (19 wks) and nights have been rough this last week. Previously she was mostly up for 1NF around 4 or 5 and straight back to sleep until 7:30ish, or she slept through until 6 and we started the day earlier (from a 6:30 BT). Now she is waking up any time from around 2:30 and is awake for a long time. A couple of days ago she woke at 4:20 and never went back to sleep.

When she wakes up she never cries.  The only reason I know she's awake is because we're in the same room still and I hear her shuffling around and occasionally she coos a bit, but she is never upset. So I leave her to it to see if she goes back to sleep, but if it gets to be 4:30 I feed her since it seems reasonable that she'd be hungry at that point. But she's not asking for food, so really I have no clue! She used to eat and go straight back down, but now she's taking a while. This morning she was up until 5:45.

Long happy NWs are generally UT right? So maybe her routine needs a tweak, but it doesn't seem to me like she's getting excessive amounts of daytime sleep. She is generally getting 2x 1.5hr naps and a 30/40 min CN.  I take her to bed after 2hrs and she goes to sleep quickly, so A time is 2hrs 10ish. Seems age appropriate to me? Or does it seem like something needs changing?

Aside from routine, she is right at wonder week and 4 month regression age. I never noticed any ww issues with DD1, and bad sleep with her was generally teeth relayed rather than developmental, so I'm not sure what to make of this with DD2.  I'm tempted to go with putting her in her own room so at least DH and I can get some sleep since she doesn't seem to need anything. I generally feel like what I don't know doesn't hurt me, and if she's awake I don't need to know!  But if she keeps doing this what if she doesn't cry for us until 6ish, I think she's slept through and she's actually been up half the night? Then her day would be a mess too. Help!
Emma






Offline Emami

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Re: Regression or some tweaking needed?
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2015, 13:27:12 pm »
Ugh, she's broken.  Last night she woke at 2:30 and I fed her straight away. Again, no crying but she always takes a full feed so I thought maybe it would get her back down quicker than waiting to see what she did. So she ate and still took a little while to settle but was back down by 3:30, so better.  But then she woke for the day at 5:50  ??? That's a 10.5hr night with only 9.5hrs sleep.  But she was WIDE awake at 5:50, no chance of resettling.  This girl was doing 12-14hr nights until about a week ago and I have no idea what's gone wrong so fast. Does anyone have any ideas?
Emma






Offline *Ali*

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Re: Regression or some tweaking needed?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2015, 13:55:01 pm »
Argh! How annoying. 

I'd worry about putting her in her own room but would you hear her cry if you wore ear plugs whilst she is in your room?

Could she be low sleep needs do you think?

If she is still going to bed at 6.30pm then i would consider posing that BT much later so that even if she wakes after 10hrs it isn't he middle of the night. 8pm to 6am seems much more reasonable than 6.30 to 4.30 doesn't it?  When do your clocks go forward?  It's this weekend here but i think USA do it later IIRC.

Is the sun or environmental noise waking her?
 
It could just be a temporary phase as she gets used to the new sleep cycles they move to at 4mo having previously spent more time in deep sleep.  I'd try to leave her if she is happy or you will create a prop of feeding at EWings. She'll let you know if she is truly hungry I should think.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline lily_layne

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Re: Regression or some tweaking needed?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2015, 19:41:48 pm »
(((hugs))) We have had some long NWs here too lately. DD had some brutal nights at around this age too. With her, I am sure it was wonder week nonsense. Not so sure about DS right now :-\

IIWY I would move her to her own room (but both of my babes were in their own rooms way younger than recommended) so you can at least sleep. I agree that what you don't know can't hurt you (although I do struggle with this ;). She will cry for you if she needs you. She may also go back to sleep faster if you aren't right there to "play" with. (I know you're not playing with her but she knows you are there).

Could she be ready to drop the CN?
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline *Liz*

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Re: Regression or some tweaking needed?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2015, 21:02:09 pm »
I would vote for starting to stretch the A times out... 2 hrs is about average at 16 weeks so it may be time for an increase and move towards shortening and the dropping the CN.

I do think this is the age when 12+ nights disappear though (only to reappear once they are on one or no nap).

Thomas doesn't really follow EASY, but he tends to do a 30-45 min am nap, a 2-3 hr lunchtime nap, and then a 20-30 min CN. If we are on the go he might get 2 CNs then a longer nap. He sometimes refuses the CN already  ::) ::).

I've had a couple of slightly more wakeful NWings lately, but nothing major. I am a fairly major prop for Thomas though so I guess that may limit them  :-\ :-\.

Offline Emami

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Re: Regression or some tweaking needed?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2015, 04:25:31 am »
I'd worry about putting her in her own room but would you hear her cry if you wore ear plugs whilst she is in your room?
I'd use a monitor.  I think this is what we'll do tonight.  I agree with Jill, I think we might be disturbing her too just with general tossing and turning and breathing!  And she's an independent sleeper and totally able to resettle herself, so if I'm not there listening to every movement and feeling like I need to get her back to sleep I have to assume she'd do it herself eventually and I don't need to know, or yell if she's really hungry or needs something.

Could she be low sleep needs do you think?
I honestly don't know.  Personality-wise she is angel/textbook, but sleep-wise she is a mystery!  She's generally happy regardless, and doesn't show any sleep cues until we're in a dark room with white noise and then she's all yawns.  So I'm guessing on A time, she doesn't give much away.  She's tended towards short naps and long nights, and then for a little while both were good.  The decent naps didn't immediately affect nights though, so I'm not sure that she's getting too much sleep making her nights wonky.

If she is still going to bed at 6.30pm then i would consider posing that BT much later so that even if she wakes after 10hrs it isn't he middle of the night. 8pm to 6am seems much more reasonable than 6.30 to 4.30 doesn't it? 
Yes! It does. 6:30 is where BT tends to fall, but I have tried later too.  She's made it to a 7:30 BT before but got the same WU so I'd rather get that extra sleep at the beginning of the night.  I haven't tried a later BT more than a one-off though so it could be worth pushing.

When do your clocks go forward?  It's this weekend here but i think USA do it later IIRC.
Arizona doesn't change, it's the same all year round.

Is the sun or environmental noise waking her?
Nope, we use white noise and the sun comes up around 6:15 by which time she is already awake.

Could she be ready to drop the CN?
We have done a couple of 2 nap days but those were when she did long nights and we got a late wake up.  The way her nights are now I have to do 3 naps.

I would vote for starting to stretch the A times out... 2 hrs is about average at 16 weeks so it may be time for an increase and move towards shortening and the dropping the CN.
She did some longer A times today, and I think you're right this is what we should be aiming for.  As above though, she needs the CN to get to a decent BT after an early start.

Today went like this:
WU 5:50
Nap 1 8:10 -9:40
Nap 2 12:00 -2:15 (she woke really upset after 30mins and did the rest of the nap in the carrier on me)
CN 4:30-4:55
BT 6:30
Does that seem ok?  She was pretty happy all day despite the broken night, except for the second nap which I guess was OT.  This doesn't seem like too much sleep to me that it would cause UT NWs, and was a little more A time than she usually gets, so I'm really hoping for a better night.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 04:27:49 am by Emami »
Emma






Offline *Ali*

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Re: Regression or some tweaking needed?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2015, 09:52:48 am »
Oh yes I assumed you would use a monitor if you put her in another room. I meant if you decided to keep her in your room because it is safer SIDS-wise then you could perhaps use ear plugs yourself so you don't hear all the tossing and cooing etc. as long as you would still hear if she actually cried and needed you. Hearing you breathing is one of the things that make it safer for her to sleep in your room as it "reminds" her to breathe like you are and you would of course lose that layer of protection if she slept in a room in her own even with a monitor. Sounds you you have made a decision you are comfortable with anyway. :)

To move the whole day back you would need you move bedtime gradually so she hardly notices. As you saw a sudden hourlong jump to a later bt won't necessarily change her WU. I meant maybe push it by 10 mins every 3 days or so. Hoping the longer A times help. I guess they should naturally push the day a bit longer anyway.
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Offline Emami

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Re: Regression or some tweaking needed?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2015, 18:05:14 pm »
To move the whole day back you would need you move bedtime gradually so she hardly notices. As you saw a sudden hourlong jump to a later bt won't necessarily change her WU. I meant maybe push it by 10 mins every 3 days or so. Hoping the longer A times help. I guess they should naturally push the day a bit longer anyway.
Yes, I'm hoping the longer A times across the day will naturally push BT later.  And we got a decent WU time this morning so keeping a 12hr day will mean BT is after 6:30.  Last night was the best we've had since the wake ups started.  I heard her on the monitor at 3:30 but just chatting, and she got louder and more fussy at 4am so I fed her.  She still wasn't really crying but I don't want to wait until she is screaming either yk? Anyway, she ate and I left the room again after I'd put her down, and all was quiet until 7:15.  So I'm not sure exactly how long she was awake but she was ok and I think we all got more sleep.

Wrt sharing a room, I know the recommendation is to keep the baby with you until at least 6 months and I always feel kind of guilty going against that kind of advice, but I honestly can't see how it helps unless you're co-sleeping.  I don't think regular breathing is loud enough for her to hear and regulate her own, and things like heavy breathing, snoring, and creaky bed springs are disruptive!  DD1 was with us until 4 months and I do feel comfortable with that as a timeframe for DD2 too.  She is healthy, gaining weight, on her back, no blankets, no smokers etc. But thanks, I know you're right and giving good advice  :-*
Emma






Offline lily_layne

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Re: Regression or some tweaking needed?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2015, 01:54:00 am »
I was thinking of you in the MOTN as I was feeding DS. I am glad you had a better night. Here's hoping that it was just a blip.

DD never showed sleepy cues either and still really won't until we get into a dark room and start winding down. I'm sure she thinks yawning is admitting defeat :) DS doesn't show a lot of cues either but he is a bit easier to read. He tends to yawn as soon as I start putting him in his sleep sack and I'm never sure if it's good timing on my part or a conditioned response!
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Offline Emami

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Re: Regression or some tweaking needed?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2015, 17:15:37 pm »
Ikwym about the conditioned response.  Annabel was acting tired when I would get her down at 2hrs and would go to sleep, but I guess she wasn't tired enough because the last couple of days with longer A times do seem to have helped. 

Yesterday she did 2hrs 20 and was just fine with the increase. She went to bed at 7 and slept through til 5. She'd done a huge poo, so not sure if that woke her or she was already awake and filled her nappy, but after I'd changed her I did feed her and she went back down until 7:30. Yay! I definitely need to be more mindful of not getting stuck on a younger A time. DD1 was HSN so I always erred on the lower side and was wary of OT, so that's probably still stuck in my head.  But hey, this is a whole different baby!
Emma