Ditching juice and junk food

[Eva's Mummy]

DD1 has recently been getting more rubbish food than I would like. When DH comes home from work he always brings her a small bag of haribo sweeties, 3 days a week he takes her to his sisters and he always tells me she doesn't get much but she always comes back with chocolate on her top and she tells me she wants to go see them for chocolate.
When she was potty training we used to give her 2 chocolate buttons for doing a poo as she was having issues but now 3 months on we are still doing it and she goes about 4 times a day and she also drinks diluting juice instead of water. This was also started because she takes movical for her bowel movements which tastes foul so we were told to put it in juice.

However now she has major tantrums if I try to give her water, she doesn't eat dinner as she says daddy is bring her sweeties. She cries for crisps and chocolate all day and has major meltdowns. So I need to stop it all, so should I just go cold turkey with everything and somehow deal with the meltdowns or just tackle 1 think at a time?   

[deb]

It sounds like you've got a good plan - but you're also going to have to get your DH on board if he's the one bringing home sweeties and taking her to relatives to get more sweets. Without his help, this otherwise great plan is going to become a contest of wills.

Once you get going, plan on a few days of huge upset - imagine some adults trying to not eat ANY sweets for a few days! LOL - before things go on more smoothly. We had to do a diet cleanup with my oldest was just turning 4YO, and we were able to explain a lot of it in terms she could understand, but yours is younger so it may be harder to approach that way.

[Eva's Mummy]

Thanks. I have a few more questions if you don't mind.

Should I do it all at once juice and treats?
How do I go about getting her off juice when she still needs to take movicol once a day?
Is the best way to deal with tantrums just to ignore them and never give in, sometimes she gets really bad and tries to hit dd2
Once they are gone is there never any treats again?

She would understand if i explained but not enough to make her not want them.

[deb]

The answers to a lot of those are "It depends." LOL

I never ever ignore tantrums any more; they're what happens when little kids have emotions that are too big for them and they need help navigating them. I'd say prepare for them, and prepare to acknowledge to her that yes, she's unhappy that she can't have so many of these treats right now but her body needs a break, and prepare to intervene to protect the other child. Then out of the moment - or maybe even pre-emptively - you can talk about things she *can* do when she's so angry and overwhelmed: have a pillow for her to punch, or a place she can bang on or stomp on the floor, and then a place for her to curl up and process and recover when the storm has passed. (And really, this is good for ALL tantrums no matter what the trigger was, not just food-based ones.

The diluted juice isn't so big a deal as straight juice or cordial; you can always gradually dilute it more and more. I remember at one point we had Josie's juice so diluted that we could pour a half-inch of juice into a half-gallon container and fill it with water so that it was *barely* pink - and that satisfied her while giving her barely any sugar at all.

For my part I'd keep treats as just that - treats. Special occasions, or maybe after-supper dessert. For mid-day snacks, I'd offer fruit or cheese or yogurt or veggies and dip - and maybe (again pre-emptively) have some yourself and invite her to share with YOU, rather than making it about the sweets/snacks. Mine are older, but right now when they get home from school they can have a snack of some sort (which usually turns out to be yogurt - I make a gallon of plain yogurt a week) and they may have something more overtly sweet after supper and *occasionally* at other times, and that seems to work out well for us. DH got a book about food garnishes when Josie was about 4 or 5 and she LOVED (and now Natalie does too) turning food into pretty things first; even now we can give them pieces of fruit and veg and make a dip from yogurt and herbs/spices and ask them to arrange a plate and they'll have fun with it, and especially at the beginning, having them involved in the food prep made a HUGE difference in getting them to eat healthy foods.

In the end, it's going to be about re-shaping your (plural ) relationship with food, and again, your DH is going to have to be on board with it. My MIL used to try to undermine our efforts to NOT give our kids junk food and went so far as to do it behind our backs and tell the girls not to tell me! (Fortunately, they also know that as small kids, we don't keep secrets from parents; that is a dangerous precedent to set.)

I'll mull this over some more while I have breakfast and see if anything else floats to the top.

[Eva's Mummy]

Thanks that's great advice. We actually used the punching pillow today. I was just having a nice wee chat with her telling her if she feels angry or frustrated like when mummy says she cant have something then instead of hitting Ella or crying she should do this (and I started punching the pillow).Well later today we had the onset of a tantrum and I told he to go punch her pillow and she stopped screaming, ran in and started hitting it then said "I feel all better"  So hopefully that will continue to work thank you. I'm also going to set up a wee snuggle area (maybe get her a wee tent with pillows and duvets) so she can relax afterwards.

On the food and drink front I feel I will have to batten down the hatches. Tonight she said I no want dinner mummy I have a sore tummy. I go to Auntie Marion's for sweeties to make my tummy better!!!

She is there tonight but with a bag with her dinner in it (Pasts, breadsticks, yoghurt and grapes) So we will see how that goes.

I am not looking forward to this but it needs to be done. I think also I giver her fad to much for snack in the evening. She naps 1:30 - 3:30 so gets up has a drink and 2 slices watermelon, grapes, mini rice cakes then I want her to eat dinner at 5. Its because she rarely eats lunch but hopefully this will sort it all out.

[creations]

Could Daddy bring home a special bag of fruit instead of the sweeties?  Something like raspberries or strawberries or even dried fruit which is very sweet but better than haribo.  There are some cute little kid sized dried fruit bags in the supermarkets...or make up some little bags yourself to give to Daddy to bring home
You could make some thing like this with her fav character on or her name to make it really treat like but without it being choc and haribo
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-Personalised-Sweet-Bag-WRAPPERS-Birthday-Party-Favours-POSTED-1st-CLASS-/251876622682?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aa504415a
or have something like this made to seal little paper or plastic bags yourself
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35-x-Personalised-Frozen-37mm-Round-Stickers-labels-Party-Thank-You-Seals-N132-/251820816912?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aa1b0ba10
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Personalised-Character-Birthday-Party-Bag-Cake-Favour-Stickers-21-per-sheet-/191069939028?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2c7ca7e554

It sounds like you really  need to speak very seriously to Auntie Marion, it isn't fair for someone else to be giving your child sweets and chocolate all the time.  Maybe you can pack a goody bag for her to take with her with some fresh fruit or dried fruit in? Or some sugar free mini muffins, pancakes or biscuits?

I know this isn't the same thing really but I had to put a stop to how much fruit DS was demanding at one point. I know fruit is healthy but it was getting to the point he wasn't eating dinner and I did need to cut back. Lots of crying and shouting the first day, I cuddled him and said I know you want some etc It is my job to look after you so that's what I am doing. Second day was a little better, by day 3 or 4 he was fine.  Sounds like the pillow is helping but if she needs cuddles too I would give them, it doesn't mean you have given in to the sweets, but means you are helping with a difficult time.

good luck!

[Buntybear]

I would suggest that DH tells her that he won't be able to bring sweets home from work anymore. Then she has the expectation from the get go she is not having them. Then if she refuses dinner remind her daddy isn't bringing sweets home today.

[Katet]

How do I go about getting her off juice when she still needs to take movicol once a day?
Is the best way to deal with tantrums just to ignore them and never give in, sometimes she gets really bad and tries to hit dd2
Once they are gone is there never any treats again?

What I did at that age was have a 'limit of 2 sugar foods"... so basically with the movicol I'd say she can have one juice a day (& have that) but all her other drinks are either milk or water & have a chart to mark it off.

With our 2 sugar foods I took photos of all the sugar foods (included juice, jam on toast, chocolate, icecream etc) & we had a jar & we'd put a photo in of the sugar food to show they'd had it.

In terms of tantrums, I always think of it from the perspective of never ignore an upset person, you may not like the reasons a child is upset, but you still can show empathy & understanding as that helps them realise at the end of the day you are still on their side.

So I'd make the rules very clear & explain when it happens that yes you understand she is upset but we need to follow the rules so we don't get sick.

[Eva's Mummy]

The jar for 2 sugars a day sounds like something she would love. I'm definitely going to start that.

So today is the beginning, at the weekend threw out anything she (and I) shouldn't be eating apart from a packet of digestive biscuits, I need a wee one wit my cuppa  . DH has crisps and chocolate for work so i have told him the multipacks needs to stay in the boot of his car.

So I am ready, got a nice bottle of wine in the fridge for after BT as I think I might be ready for it 

[Buntybear]

lol - good luck  have you stocked up with lots of nice alternatives? fruit, boxes of raisins etc?

[creations]

boxes of raisins

Don't kids just love those little boxes of raisins!!!!

Good luck! Hope it goes smoothly or at least as smoothly as one can expect. x

[Buntybear]

Yep, olly also likes those yoghurt covered raisins, and humzingers et al are good sweet treats as they are pure fruit

[Eva's Mummy]

Oh now why didn't I think of yoghurt covered raisins, she would love them. Never heard of humzingers, where do you get them?

So its going ok so far, she did find a pack of crisps which I thought I had got rid of them all but that has been all she has had. Still working on watering down the juice, every time I dilute it a bit more she notices and asks for "better juice".

On another we note what times do you feed your toddlers, she naps 1:30-3:30
She doesn't like breakfast until 8:30/9:00 even though she wakes at 6, then she asks for something about 11:00 but then she wont eat lunch. After her nap she is very hungry as she hasnt eaten lunch, but because it is now almost 4 she then doesn't eat dinner 

[jessmum46]

I would give a very small snack at 11 and then proper lunch, or cut snack altogether and offer early lunch at 11.30/12. Same after nap, if snacks are affecting meals I would either cut them completely or make them small enough not to affect 'proper' meal times. She's not going to starve waiting an hour or so, if she's genuinely hungry she will accept whatever small healthy thing you choose to offer, or maybe just a drink as an alternative?

Does she have anything at all before breakfast time?  Milk?

[Eva's Mummy]

So by small snack would you mean like and apple or banana or is that too big?

Yes she has a cup of milk in our bedroom as soon as she wakes. Its the first thing she asks for before she is even out of her cot.

[jessmum46]

A small snack here would be one of those small boxes of raisins, or 2-3 slices of apple (so less than half) or similar xx

[creations]

yoghurt covered raisins

Just for info, all the ones I've seen/bought have sugar added, it isn't just yoghurt and raisins.  I still give them to DS but they are quite a treat here and not an everyday snack - not that i am against them, but I limit them (and choc raisins too) mainly because if DS thought he could have them all the time he would and I'd rather he had fresh fruit etc.

I agree about making the snack small enough so she can have a decent lunch. I get those very small apples to avoid having half an apple left in the fridge going brown.

[Eva's Mummy]

Ok so yoghurt raisins are off the menu.  I get the small kids apples and bananas I get but is that still a bit big for a small snack x

[Buntybear]

Yoghurt raisins don't have to be off the menu IMHO - I was suggesting them as a better alternative to a packet of Haribo  . As Creations say they can be a treat.

Humzingers are normally found with the yoghurt raisins!

[deb]

Now that my kids are older and have lunch at school (and vastly different lunchtimes at that!), I find that when we're home or out as a family, we let them snack when they're hungry and eat meals when they need to, and I sort of did that when they were younger too (even though mealtimes weren't as far apart as 11AM and 1PM!). If she's not properly hungry till 11AM, I'd go ahead and feed her a decent meal then and call it lunch and call the milk drink "breakfast." If she's having milk when she wakes, will she take anything with that, like a bite of banana, or is that enough for her? Natalie would drink a (rice) milk in the morning and her appetite was all over the place, so we ended up adding some protein powder to it, putting it in a sports bottle, and she'd toddle out of her room, find it waiting for her at the end of the hallway, shake it up, and guzzle it for breakfast. (I used that particular protein powder because she was in an anti-veg stage at the time and this had some veg greens and juice hidden in it. )

As it turns out, each of my girls has a very different set of food and meal preferences: they like different foods, and at different times, in different quantities - I have one who's more a "carnivore," and another who self-selects away from most red meats, and while we ask them to try different things, they also know by now (at 13 and almost-10) what makes them feel good and what they just don't care for, so I don't mind making meals that I can adapt for them (like maybe a soup or stew where Natalie doesn't have much if any of the meat but does have more grains and veg). I do think it's important to let them learn to really listen to their bodies rather than just eating mindlessly. That's something I think we all learn gradually over time, given enough opportunity to do so.

[creations]

Yoghurt raisins don't have to be off the menu IMHO - I was suggesting them as a better alternative to a packet of Haribo

Oh yes I agree. they don't need to be a total no go and they are certainly better than Haribo.  They could even be a half way house to wean her off her haribo addiction
EG a friend has sent over a family pack of Haribo for DS for Easter, it is going in the bin. I wouldn't throw a pack of yogurt raisins in the bin.

[Katet]

When my boys were little & napped, they often didn't eat lunch (partly I guess I've never been a big lunch eater) their days tended to be Breakfast 7ish, big morning tea (toast or crumpets or cheese & crackers & fruit) then they'd nap & then they'd have a big afternoon tea (same sorts of thing as morning tea) & then they'd have Dinner at 6pm