We may have a routine, but I don't think it's right! Advice please

[claireylk]

Hiya,

I'm mum to a 5 month old girl, Chloe.  We have ended up with some sort of routine but the end of the day routine isn't right at all and I don't know how to fix it!  I keep reading different bits of the forum but I just can't get my head around how to do it.

We've recently changed her formula as well as she was on SMA and was having terrible constipation.  She's been on Aptamil since last Thursday and naps have gone a bit haywire since then as well.

This is a usual day -
Wake up - between 6:15 and 7am
She's then happy to play in her cot for 30-45 minutes which I don't want to move away from if possible
E - 7:30
A - 8:00
S - 9:30 (usually 30-45 mins)
E - 10:30
A - 11:00
S - 12-12:30 (can range from 45 mins to 2 hours depending on what's going on)
E - 13:30
A - 14:00
S - 15:00 (again, can range from 45 mins to 1.5 hours, or not happen at all and then she'll fall asleep straight after her next feed)
E - 16:30
A - 17:00
S - 18:00 (this is usually a good nap and we have to wake her up for the next feed)
E - 19:30
A - we may do a story as sometimes she will then be awake for 2 hours, sometimes only awake for half an hour
S - ranges from 20:00 to 21:30
Dream feed between 22:30 and 23:00

In her feeds she tends to take between 6 and 7oz, and her dream feed can be anything from 4-5oz.

My problem is that we seem to have two dream feeds most nights - the one at 19:30 and then at 23:00.  I don't know where to build in the bath/story routine.  We don't bath her every day, but I want to start doing that, but wanted to get the routine right in my head before we start so I don't confuse her.  Should her 18:00 nap just be a catnap that I wake her from?  Then do we do bath, bottle and story and put her down at 20:00 for the night?

With her naps - she usually only has her late afternoon/early evening nap in her cot and the rest are on her playmat downstairs or on the sofa (or in her pram if we're out).  She's really started to fight the tiredness and you can tell she's shattered but just keeps making the odd noise to keep herself awake.  The last week I've had to hold her or keep my hand on her tummy to get her to sleep in the day, or resort to going for a walk as I know she'll sleep in her pushchair.  At night she will go down awake and then make a bit of noise before she sleeps, so I know she can settle okay.  She really is getting herself worked up in the day though.

Any help is really appreciated, thank you.

[jessmum46]

Hi and welcome

It looks to me that she's actually treating the 6pm nap as bedtime, which is why she sleeps off so well and needs waking.  As most babies her age would be on three naps (usually two long plus a catnap) that would make sense, especially since she frequently has shorter naps in the day. 

Whilst we like early bedtimes in our house, I know that 6pm doesn't work for a lot of families though.  Maybe we could start by thinking what your 'ideal' day would look like in terms of WU time in the morning and bedtime (bearing in mind a 12h day or thereabouts works best for many babies) and work from there? 

5/6 months is quite a time of transition routine-wise and many will go from 3-2 naps over this time.  So on three naps the day may look like

WU 7
Nap 9-11
Nap 1-3
Catnap between 5&6pm 30-40 mins
BT 7/7.30pm

Moving towards (on two naps)
WU 7
Nap 10-11.30/12
Nap 2.30/3-4/4.30
BT 7/7.30

And obviously anywhere in between depending on what sort of awake time your LO can handle.  Typical at 5 months may be around 2h15-30, up to 3h by about 6 months.

Let me know what your 'ideal' would be and I'll see if I can help with a plan to get you there

[claireylk]

Thanks for your reply, that all makes sense.

I think that working towards a 7am wake up and 7-7:30 bedtime would work well.

Today Chloe woke up at 5am and I didn't know whether to feed her so we just hoped she'd go back to sleep. She didn't!! But was quite happy squealing and playing for an hour. But she seems to be waking earlier and earlier this week.

Thank you for your help   

[jessmum46]

Keep us posted and let us know if we can help any more

[claireylk]

To be honest I'm not really sure where to start.  The last two nights I've forced her late afternoon/early evening nap to be a cat nap and woken her up for bath, bottle and stories.
But she has short naps so I don't know how to do the routine from 7-7 if she's had such little naps in the day that she's then shattered and thinks it's bedtime by 5-6pm.
And I have no idea what the 5am start was today or if that's going to continue!  She did have her morning and afternoon nap in her cot today and went down okay after a bit of happy shouting, but her lunchtime nap was car induced and messed up her feeds a bit...

[jessmum46]

What I would suggest is to just start when you get a decent WU and pay close attention to her cues to try to determine how much A time she can handle.  Around 2h30 sounds right for 5 months give or take, but if she always has her nap at 9.30am it may be that sometimes she is UT for it if she wakes closer to 7 then has a while to play in the cot, or OT if she has woken earlier.  You may have to experiment a little - some mums find they can count the start of A time from when they pick LO up out of the cot, as long is LO is quiet and happy before then, but others find they have to actually start counting from when LO wakes to get any sort of nap consistency.  It may be you have to do the second option for a while so nap will move around a bit depending on wake time, but you could still allow some play time in the cot if you want, say 30 mins (or whatever you pick, but try to keep it consistent - if she has 10 mins one day and 45 the next, it's hard to compare if you see what I mean?)

I think I'm right that she usually settles independently?

After a few days of doing a consistent first A time you should be able to see some sort of pattern emerging as to whether you have her A time just right (typically this would give a good nap of 1h30+), whether she is OT (typically 30 min naps but sometimes 40/45) or UT (often 50 mins to 1h20 or so). 

After a good nap I would try to push for the same sort of A time again.  If her nap is short however you may need to shorten A time by 15-30 mins or so depending on cues to prevent her being too OT for her next nap.  I would try to keep to just three naps if you can unless all are super-short and go for an early bedtime in preference to a fourth nap.  It may be that your routine ends up a little earlier than you want for a while but often early starts will sort themselves out once the routine is a bit more settled.  If not, you can always push the whole day forwards in small increments just as you would to adjust for DST

[claireylk]

Thank you so much, that us very useful. I really appreciate your help

Just one question - how does being OT lead to short naps?
And is it wise to wake her up if she's gone past a feeding time?  This morning she woke up at 7, fed at 7:30 and then didn't nap until 10. We woke her up at 10:40 for her next feed but she would have easily slept for longer.

[jessmum46]

No I wouldn't wake to feed, babies at this age (certainly bottle-fed ones) can usually manage 4-4.5h between feeds. I'd let her sleep a full nap.

I'm not sure of the exact science but when babies are OT they tend to jolt out of sleep at lighter points of the sleep cycle, and struggle to resettle. Possibly something to do with falling into deep sleep very quickly but don't quote me!  Really it's just that OT bubs struggle with settling, or staying asleep hence short naps are common.

[claireylk]

Thank you
Interesting about being OT leading to shorter naps. It's always the opposite to what you expect!!

[jessmum46]

Yes definitely - the other common misconception is that putting babies to bed later will result in later WU - rarely works!!