Author Topic: Lack of routine for 6 month old causing problems :(  (Read 1772 times)

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Offline outofherdepth

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Re: Lack of routine for 6 month old causing problems :(
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2015, 11:44:09 am »
Good morning

I too wimped out of the DF but was then secretly pleased that she woke up herself at midnight thinking that was my chance to see if she would take a feed and sleep through. Well she took a feed, seemed to settle but within 10 minutes was awake crying and it took around 15 minutes to settle her. Then another waking 4am - tried to settle with shhing and pupd but after 20-30 mins (felt like an hour at the time) I got worried in case she was genuinely hungry. So I took her out and fed her...and yeah she wasn't really hungry! I hoped the oxytocin would at least make her drowsy but she was wide awake and mad at being put back in the cot. Another 30mins or so and she went back to sleep - awake at 7.40am. So I'm not sure about introducing a DF just yet!!

Morning nap she seemed to go down ok but then only lasted 40 mins :-( I got her up when it was obvious she wouldn't resettle and decided to stay in (we usually go out for a bit afterwards nap1) and watch for the first sleepy sign. It came just an hour later - she gets spaced out and sighs -and I started wind down and she is getting a bit drowsy and I am thinking I AM ON THIS - put in cot and she is wide awake babbling. Think to myself okay, maybe she's winding herself down...actually she was preparing for more tears :-( :-( 30 minutes later she falls asleep and we're 20mins into that nap. I don't expect a good one.

Thanks Naomi I would post our routine except that I wouldn't know where to start because we HAD a routine until a few weeks ago that was working well, though it was an AES routine which endd up part of the problem. Then my lo turned the tables and stopped sleeping with all the 'props' we had and things went awry. I tried some no cry sleep solution tips and shush pat and nothing worked so staryed pupd last Friday. Through I've tried to stick loosely to our old routine while working on fixing the eat before sleep and nap length, as you know it hasn't worked and day to day I'm facing short naps leading to shorter A times during the day and earlier bedtimes to compensate which = no routine to speak of. I have an ideal EAS but is there any point posting that? Just a bit lost at the mo :-( lo is now awake 30 mins into nap 2. Argh.

Amie - sounds like a better night for you - fingers crossed for another. I am with you on the DF issue :-)x
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Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: Lack of routine for 6 month old causing problems :(
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2015, 19:13:40 pm »
Amie, that does sound like progress, yay! Keep up the consistency and we can look at whether further changes may help in a day or so.

OOHD - when I say post your EAS, it doesn't have to be a routine as such, just post what happens in reality day by day, no baby follows "the rules" fully and the idea is to follow *your* baby. Don't be afraid of it looking messy, they all do :)

And remember everyone here is just a parent like you, you know your child better than anyone, we can just help with the objective overview stuff. I came here when DD was about 6 months old, and loved this place and so I hung around. Hope you love it too, and we can all help each other! Fingers crossed for tonight xx
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Offline AmieMeslohi

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Re: Lack of routine for 6 month old causing problems :(
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2015, 08:31:53 am »
Hi ladies sorry for delay in responding our household got hit by the sickness bug :( So far baby hasn't got it I'm praying it stays that way!!!
I thought I'd post a little update to see what you thought our next steps should be. She is now sleeping for approx 1hr in the morning, 1hr at lunchtime and then 45mins in the afternoon - she still stirs after 20-30mins but will generally go back to sleep with a few Ssssh's,this is great progress for us but I'm wondering if she'll ever stop the stirring at 20/30mins???
Our EASY now sort of looks like this;
E 7am
A 2.5hrs Inc Breakfast
S 9.30am (1hr)
E 11am
A 2.5hrs Inc Lunch
S 1.30pm (1hr)
E 3pm
A 1hr 15mins
S 4.15pm (45mins)
Dinner - 5.30pm
Bath - 6.15pm
Bottle & Bed - 6.45pm

She is still waking twice in the night once for a feed and then once for comfort.
Any advice on what to try and tweak next to get even longer naps / better nights would be fab - I know this is a work in progress and will need changes :)
OOHD - how are you getting on? xxx



Offline Domestic Engineer

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Re: Lack of routine for 6 month old causing problems :(
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2015, 19:07:49 pm »
I don't think that most babies need more total daytime sleep than 2.75 hours at 6 months old, so you will only get longer naps when she starts shortening and then dropping the late afternoon third nap. She's at the right age to do that soon, though they are all different! To me, your routine looks pretty much picture perfect!

If you actually try the dream feed, it might replace the MOTN feed. But she still probably needs to eat once more during the night.

Would you like to explain more about the comfort waking? Is it at the same time, or random times? How do you respond? How long does it last?

Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: Lack of routine for 6 month old causing problems :(
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2015, 22:31:07 pm »
I'm sorry to hear you've been poorly, I hope that it does avoid your baby and the rest of you continue to feel week :)

I agree with DE that this is around the time when LOs will start to get rid of that CN and move towards two longer naps. It may be that the waking at 20/30 mins is because of a build up of OT throughout the day as none of the nps are quite long enough to be restorative. You could try lengthening the A times between naps a little more. You might find this link a helpful read:

All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

You'd need to lengthen the A times to around 3 hours and possibly being BT a little earlier overall, but you can towards that gradually. What do you think?
~ Naomi ~




Offline outofherdepth

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Re: Lack of routine for 6 month old causing problems :(
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2015, 12:17:22 pm »
Hi Amie sorry you were poorly, ditto this end!! It looks like your routine is headed in the right direction for sure. It's frustrating though isn't it that just when you start to get a routine established things start to transition and you have to rearrange things!

Things have been pretty horrendous here which is why I couldn't bring myself to post. Night times were starting to get better but naps were steadily going downhill last week and pupd was just not working and it started to undo the progress we'd made at night.One day, maybe Weds we had like 2 20 minute naps and loads of proper crying it was horrendous I ended up crying myself, rocked lo to sleep and she slept for 2 hours on me. I felt terrible for maybe confusing her and also bc it felt like she must just need me more during the day..The next day was awful again I was almost at breaking point when I came down with tonsillitis really bad :'( I was too ill to carry on with ST so resorted to old methods of nursing and rocking to sleep in the day which continues (epic fail I know). Thankfully lo is mostly going to sleep herself on a night with only a small amount of fussing so some progress has been made, but can't help feeling a failure..

I'm now on antibiotics and feeling a bit more human (lo has been untouched by it and is happy as a  clam except for OTness at end of the days) but just need to figure out what to do going forward. My lo never managed any self-soothing during the daytime throughout whole 2 weeks of pupd and I don't think I have the stomach to return to it again...

Looks like you're getting good advice on the routine, do you think you'll try stretching A time further? My lo is still only early 5 month old but the last couple of days has really resisted that third nap, making BT tough. I do bring it forward in those instances but it's hard cos OH gets in from work at 615pm so doesn't get to see her really on those days. Sometimes I feel like this sleep obsession is taking over my life :-/ Sorry for the negativity, pleased one of us is making progress :-) :-) xx

Offline AmieMeslohi

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Re: Lack of routine for 6 month old causing problems :(
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2015, 19:56:33 pm »
Hi everyone,
All healthy again this end thank you and thankfully baby managed to escape it :)

DE - with the comfort waking she wakes for a short time and after getting her dummy and a few bottom pats she settles back down almost instantly. Previously it's been just the 1 comfort wakening usually between 3-5am but the last few nights she's woken hourly from 3am :(

Iv been working hard to try and help her to self settle at bedtime and after the night feed,9/10 she does it very easily which has been great progress but sometimes I will still need to do the Sssh/pat to settle her in the cot. Naps are a whole different ball game!
After some progress it feels as if she's gone backwards the last few days, she's waking at the 20/30mins mark every nap and is harder to get back down. I do tend to get an hour out of her but it doesn't feel like a restorative hour as it's interrupted with crying and distress. She's also always tired an hour later so I put her back down and she mostly does another 20/30mins - so I'm exhausted with putting her down for approx 4 naps a day sometimes 5 if she has a catnap too!!!!

BB - thank you, I will definitely try lengthening the A time to 3hrs and see if that helps. Would you suggest bringing BT to maybe 6.30pm?. Thank you for the link will give that a read also.

OOHD - gosh it sounds like an horrendous time for you.Please do not feel like a failure if I've learnt anything the last week or so it's that you have to what's right for you all at the time,there will always be another day to start a fresh. And BB made a very good point to me not so long ago,you shouldn't feel bad for being there for your baby you know best and should follow your instinct. I hope things get better for you soon. You shouldn't feel embarrassed to post  your routine mine was (and sometimes still feels!) a TOTAL mess but these wonderful ladies on here will be able to offer you some support and advice - I'm sure of it!! I can empathise with the ST taking over your life, I feel it's all I do is read about it and try and implement it he he! I have to say, I found BT much easier if I bought it forward on days she hadn't napped well, just the other day she went to bed at 6pm as had only napped 1hr 30mins all day!! It's very tough though if your OH doesn't get back till after that time but maybe he could spend time with her in the morning if she's an early riser?Bringing her BT forward for a few consecutive days may help sort her OT???Then you could extend it again slowly? x


Offline Buttonbobs

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Re: Lack of routine for 6 month old causing problems :(
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2015, 20:30:08 pm »
Glad to hear you're feeling better honey :)

I do think the routine issues could make a differences, give it a go and see what happens.

Have you recently introduced solids? I just wonder if there is an element of discomfort at all. Waking at 20 mins/30 mins into a nap can be discomfort as well as routine issues, so might be worth ruling that out. Any signs of teething?

I know it can sometimes feel as if ST is taking forever, I remember that feeling well. All i can say is to reassure you that once the routine is more age appropriate then whatever sleep training you do will be easier.

Ideally you want to aim for two naps after at least 1.5 hours each, this is two full sleep cycles for an LO of this age and is more restorative than a shorter nap. If you get a longer nap great, but anything 1.5 hours or longer is considered a good nap here at BW. If you are having naps shorter than that the idea is to slightly ahorten the next A time to put LO down a little earlier to prevent OT.

So for example, you are aiming for a 3 hour A time. So if WU is 7am, you go for the first nap at 10am. If she wakes/stirs do the shh/pat technique to help her resettle. Ideally you would continue to do this until she resettle or until the end of the nap time (so 11.30am ish). I found with my DD I knew that if I'd been shh/patting for more than 15 mins and she wasn't settling then she probably wouldn't. So if you have the same feeling with your DD then you could try for a bit and if she doesn't settle then get her up and start the next A time. So say she wakes at 11, this is less than 1.5 hours sleep so rather than doing a full 3 hour A time, try 2 hours 45 before the next nap - and put her down around 1.45pm (what level of reduction in A time is suitable involves a little trial and error so although I'm setting this out fairly mathematically, you would need to keep an eye out for sleepy cues etc and put down before she gets too tired. Then if you get a longer nap that time (more than 1.5 hours), you could go for another 3 hour A time and try for bed around 6.15/6.30.

If you get a short second nap you might put in a CN around the 2 hour A mark and then go for BT around 7.30ish.

I hope that makes sense. The "perfect" two nap EASY (if such a thing existed) would be:

7am WU
Nap 1: 10 to 11.30pm
Nap 2: 2.30 to 4.00pm
BT: 7p

Or some similar approximation. Some LOs like a longer first A time and a shorter A time before bed (like my DD), some like very equal A times and some like shorter first A and longer to bed. This is really the essence of BW, a flexible routine but based on each LOs needs.

There are some example six month routines here:

chronological EASY samples, 4-6 months

I hope this helps xx
~ Naomi ~