At a loss...extreme OT or something else?

[Vee119]

DD2 is now 4w and we've been loosely following a routine as much as possible given doctor visits etc. we have also had to contend with DD1's energy and lack of 'inside voice'. This means on some days naps are shortened or A times are too long and then we have a diasaster at night. For 3 days in a row, DD2 has had a hard time settling for bed.  No matter what time I eventually get her to sleep, she keeps waking every 20 - 30mins (or less) after I lay her down and this goes on for 3 hrs before she finally really sleeps.  Sometimes it appears to be gas, but I cant get her to burp, and she is only soothed by eating more (she is ebf) so it's a vicious cycle. I have tried using a soother but she refuses to take it. Then I never know how to start the next day after the short night.  Our EASY for the past 2days is below. Help pls!

Day 1
W/u 5:40
E 6
S 6:50 - 9

E 9
S 9:45-11

E11:15
S 11:40-12:40

E 1
S 2-4

E 4
S 4:45-5:20 (DD1 back from daycare)

E 5:50
S 6-7 ( I woke her and lived to regret it)
E 7
BT 8 was up at 8:35 then refused to settle until 11:30

Day 2
W/u 7:50
E 7:50
S 9:30-11:10 (we had an appointment)

E 11:10
S 11:45-2:20 (I woke her)
E2:20 she was not actually awake at all
S 2:30-3

E 3
S 4:25-5:05 ( DD1 back)

E 5:30
A 5:50 bath
E 6:15
BT 6:50 took another hour to settle
NW 8:45 9:30 1:07 2:35-4:35(mostly awake)

Day 3
W/u 6:35
E 6:35
S 7:18 -8:10 the shh pat to 9:10

E 9:15
S 11:30-11:50 (car seat to doctor)

E 11:55
S 12:05-1:40

E 1:50 asleep
S 2-4:15

E 4:25 then off to pick up DD1
S 4:45-6:05 in car seat

A 6:15 bath
E 6:35
BT 7:15 but did not settle. Up every few mins until 11:30pm
NW 2:40

[deb]

Only being soothed by more eating to me suggests a possibility of reflux, as milk soothes the burn of acid in the esophagus. Even if there's no visible spitting up, she could still be suffering from silent reflux.

With my DD1, it started showing up around 2 weeks, starting with little spitups and progressing over the course of the next month to fountains of milk (hers was pretty extreme, to be fair). At the time we didn't know about the milk soothing the burn, so it was driving us around the bed when she'd nurse after only an hour or 2 after her last feed, and then stop and cry after a few swallows - was she hungry or not? Nope - she needed the pain relief.

Worth considering - not likely to get anywhere with sleep training if she's in pain.

[jessmum46]

My thought (although it may not be what you want to hear right now) is that evening unsettledness is actually pretty normal for a 4 week old  . Many babies in the early weeks have very unsettled evening times when they just want to cluster feed, cuddle and fuss and are very difficult to calm, before eventually conking out for the night once thoroughly exhausted.  Although I would certainly consider the possibility of reflux or similar, I wouldn't be rushing to get her checked over just yet unless you have been concerned at other times of the day.  Her routine looks great for a four week old, I don't think you're doing anything wrong at all . Its about getting through it and waiting for her to mature a little more.  Just to share my experience - DD did exactly what your DD is doing and we were regularly up until midnight/1am before she properly settled down.  That was despite feeding, rocking, holding, cuddling and doing everything in our power to settle her.  In retrospect I wish I'd had the sling I subsequently used with my DS as it would have been a godsend while we dealt with the fussy weeks.  There was a dramatic and rapid improvement from about 8 weeks and by 12 weeks she was going to bed for the night much closer to 7-8pm.  I did nothing at all different with DS (at least I don't think so) and he was a dream going to bed for the night by 7pm at 10 days old, so they are all different and there is not necessarily anything to 'fix'.  May just be a case of riding the storm and lowering your expectations for a little while until she is ready to settle down for a proper bedtime in a few weeks' time xx

[Vee119]

Thank you both very much!  I will lower expectations a little more.  It's tough because I know how wonderfully EASY and sleep training work and I just want to get there:) I have tore I d myself that with DD1 we only started at 3 months and we were fine!:)
I had not thought about reflux but it may actually be part of the problem....I'll keep closer watch on how she behaves after feeds.

[Vee119]

My thought (although it may not be what you want to hear right now) is that evening unsettledness is actually pretty normal for a 4 week old  . Many babies in the early weeks have very unsettled evening times when they just want to cluster feed, cuddle and fuss and are very difficult to calm, before eventually conking out for the night once thoroughly exhausted. 

Quick question:  Were your naps fuss-free or did you have the same type of behaviour during the day as well. I think I have painted myself into a place where DD is getting used to and loving being held/fed to sleep which is what we have to do at night.  But once again, I don't want to push to start working on independent sleeping during the day when the nights are so unpredictable - or should I? I can't imagine another month of what we are doing.  I feel like this is my first time at this! Its amazing how different my DDs are!  I almost wish I didn't know anything about BW until about month 3 then I'd be trundling along in my little bubble thinking that feeding to sleep is the best thing ever!

[jessmum46]

Both my babies have been APed to sleep for at least the first 2-3 months at naptime and both have been independent sleepers and gone down beautifully (for the most part) by 4 months although I tried for some independent sleep/cot naps I honestly don't think it really started to click until at least 10-12 weeks, and I was still using the pram/swing for DD or sling/pram for DS for much longer than that in the later part of the day. It is very liberating (or at least I found it so with DS) to have a flexible sleeper and also to 'deliberately parent' and in no way in my experience do those early snuggles cause bad habits. If you have the end goal in mind, make small steps in that direction but just enjoy your newborn, you will get there