Author Topic: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?  (Read 2972 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ~Jen~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 816
  • Location: A New Yorker living in London
Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« on: April 03, 2015, 21:09:19 pm »
DD2 seems to be prone to EW lately...  prior to this her nights were great.  1- 2 NFs and a solid 12hr night.  I assume it is OT as she mostly only take catnaps during the day despite all my efforts to get her to take a long nap.  We get the odd long nap occasionally as if she is reminding me she can do it when she wants to.  She never wakes the first half of the night, it is always for 2 NFs around 12:30 and 3:30 and then this EW around 5/6am.  BT between 7/7:30 most nights.  I always feed her at her NWs as she is EBF and takes a good feed.  The EW though she is definitely more comfort sucking although does taek some and then I can get her back to sleep.  At first it happened just a few times so I fed her back to sleep and it was a one-off.  Now though it is becoming a regular occurance and I feel like we are creating a habit to be fed at this hour.  I've tried settling her APOP but she wont have it - she cries and cries until I feed her although if I am really honest with myself I know she isn't very hungry.   I've done the easy thing to avoid her waking DS/DD1 which would easily happen in the early AM.

WWYD?  Do I keep going with this because I don't know if I have it in me to tackle it right now.  Hanging onto the hope that it might just solve itself once her routine becomes more stable... but I also know this will probably become a slippery slope quickly.   :-\




Offline newkidontheblock

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 42
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2649
  • Location:
    • The Genius
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 06:31:35 am »
What is your day looking like now, hun?






Offline ~Jen~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 816
  • Location: A New Yorker living in London
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2015, 21:08:18 pm »
Thanks for the reply.  The days vary a bit depending on how her naps are going.  Looking at it again she must need more A time.  Could that cause the EWs?  She is touchy/spirited.  These are the past few days:

WU: 6:40
E: 7
A 1hr25
S: 8:05 - 9:45
E: 10
A  1hr50
S: 11:35 - 12:20
E: 1
A  1hr35
S: 1:55 - 2:55, Resettle her 3 - 4pm
E 4
A  1hr25
S: 5:25 - 6 (Wake on own)
A  1hr45
E 7
BT S 7:45

(I didn't make a note of her NWs but she did EW at 5:45am)

6am Back to sleep after I fed her
WU 7:30
E: 8:00
A  1hr30
S: 9 - 9:40
A  1hr25
E: 10:30
S: 11:25 - 11:55, Resettle her 12 - 12:30
E: 1
A  55mins
S: 1:25 - 2:10, dose 2:20-2:25 and wake
A  1hr25
E: 3:30
A  1hr20
S: 3:50 - 4:25
A  1hr20
S: 5:45 - 6:15
A  1hr35
E
BT S: 7:50

NW 12:15, 3, 4:50

WU 6:20
E: 6:45
A  1hr20
S: 7:40 - 9:20

E: 10 (wasn't interested)
A Swimming  (2hr5)
S: 11:25  - 12 (I fed her when we got home from swimming since she didn't eat at 10 but then she passed out BF)
E: 12:30 (I tried to feed her again but still not taking a good feed)
A   1hr10
S: 1:10 - 2:40  (big stir at 45m and 1hr)
E: 3
A   1hr20
S: 4 - 4:40
A   1hr55
E: 6
BT S: 6:35







Offline newkidontheblock

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 42
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2649
  • Location:
    • The Genius
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 07:59:56 am »
It's worth adding a touch more time. It might help the naps to lengthen naturally and help her to transition. Have you tried sticking to a fixed WU time? That did help to do away with DD's 5.30/6 am waking. Otherwise, not much else to suggest except what you said - feed and hope it stops on it's own.

Have you read this, though?
Early Waking

Could it be something as simple as light disturbing her?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 08:10:43 am by newkidontheblock »






Offline *Liz*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 394
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 16629
  • Living beyond
  • Location: England
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 19:33:00 pm »
I think she likely does get too much daytime sleep.... Even on short naps ending up with 5 sleeps is kind of a lot at this age. I know it's hard because she cries a lot when OT though.

I would just AP and feed at an EW, especially since she has weight gain issues. Extra milk can only be of benefit. More calories overall and better weight gain will naturally lead to improved sleep as well. Also I think keeping them used to having 12hrs sleep is good rather than ending up with them 'getting used to' 10.5hrs as it becomes set in the body clock and harder to fix IMO.

Thomas still feeds at night - usually 2 bottles - and I often cuddle him back to sleep at an EW. I do have short naps and AP to sleep, but no true props yet, so I think it's the better option to just cuddle yk?

Offline weaver

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 210
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 10146
  • May your choices reflect your hopes not your fears
  • Location:
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2015, 19:39:57 pm »
I agree, treat it as a NF!
*Anne*, loving mama to a honeybee (2010) and a sweetpea (2012).  BF for 4 proud years.


Offline ~Jen~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 816
  • Location: A New Yorker living in London
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2015, 20:47:59 pm »
Thanks everyone!  I'm so glad you said that  ;D   I've tried cuddling/rocking and nope she just will not settle at that hour without BF.  I've also thought about the extra calories and she so needs it right now even if it is just 5mins before she passes out.  It is also the hour I am at my weakest and cannot bear to have the whole household woken up! 

Liz, I completely agree on the day sleep.  The short naps have been making it really hard to get to BT.  Do you think that is causing the EWs?  I can't work out if it is a short morning A or OT at BT that causes her to wake.  I guess could also be an UT/OT loop.  I"ve been trying to push her A times to get closer to a 4hr EASY but she is so grizzly and easily tips into OT.  I managed to get her to a 1hr40min A for her first nap and she still woke at 45mins but then I was able to extend her and she slept another 1.5hrs.  That was one of the longest naps she has ever done!

Fleur, I was doing a fixed 7am WU but lately she isn't making it unless the night was really bad.  It could be light disturbing her although her room is very dark despite the days becoming longer.  I'm really hoping it is a routine issue I can sort out and not just habit



Offline *Liz*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 394
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 16629
  • Living beyond
  • Location: England
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2015, 07:12:04 am »
TBH I don't know. One of my kids is a chronic EWer. He still is at 6.5 years old, and trust me, there is NOTHING that can be fixed about it  >:(. He self entertains now of course, but he has always been like it from being a young baby.

My DD does 12 hr nights and I always AP'd her in the mornings when she was little. I was much more 'by the book' with DS1 (in an attempt to fix him!), and he was always rubbish regardless.

So some I think you cannot change - they are just wired that way - but I would def AP myself out of it becoming a habit if I could. I always used BFing with DD, it's different with a bottle, which is prob why Thomas will accept a snuggle more easily.

Offline newkidontheblock

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 42
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2649
  • Location:
    • The Genius
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2015, 07:51:50 am »
Extra milk can only be of benefit. More calories overall and better weight gain will naturally lead to improved sleep as well.
I think this is spot on. She might just be upping her calorie intake and it will naturally stop. I do think these babies are very smart about their needs. DD was born with a low birth weight - 2.09kgs - and she would feed every 2 hours on the dot until she raced ahead and got to the right percentile, then she herself stopped waking.






Offline ~Jen~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 816
  • Location: A New Yorker living in London
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 14:34:57 pm »
Still EWs over here and last night she was barely eating so I took her off and rocked her to sleep.  She did settle eventually and slept another 1.5hrs so I know she doesn't really need to eat.  Her day sleep has gone wonky again - would someone take a quick look at this and let me know what you think? I don't mean to hijack the NW board but with all 3 kids home today it is just easier to reply to this thread.  Yesterday and today almost identical what does the 25mins afternoon nap mean?

6:50 WU
E
A
S8:30 - 10:30
E
A
S 12:20 - 12:55  (CAnnot work out if this is OT or UT or just developmental)
A
E
S 2:55 - 3:20  (???? what is this? She wakes happy but then again she wakes that way for every nap so I never really know OT/UT)
E
A
S 4:50 - 5:20 (Out in carrier and she woke on own)
E
A
BT - 6:50pm I tried to get her down from 6:30 and she only settled after lots of shouting.  She often does protest cry both when she is UT or OT - so again I have no idea. 

something is obviously off with the routine given crappy afternoon sleeps and EW.  I just can't get her to settle with shorter A times in the afternoon.  I held her for almost 45mins before she finally fell asleep for Nap 3 and she gives me only 25mins!!!!!  :o



Offline newkidontheblock

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 42
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2649
  • Location:
    • The Genius
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2015, 15:04:13 pm »
S 12:20 - 12:55  (CAnnot work out if this is OT or UT or just developmental)
A
E
S 2:55 - 3:20  (? what is this? She wakes happy but then again she wakes that way for every nap so I never really know OT/UT)
I think OT. Morning A was 1.40, which seemed perfect for her as you got a nice, long nap. Then it was 1.50 before this one. I don't know about your DD but with mine, even 10 minutes makes a big difference. Was it not possible to resettle her? Then again, after the short nap, she might have been ready to go down a lot sooner for nap 3, so got OT and/or her second wind in the process. What do you think?

Is this EW around 10 - 10.5 hours after BT?






Offline ~Jen~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 816
  • Location: A New Yorker living in London
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2015, 15:51:34 pm »
Yes i agree it has to be OT. She will not resettle from a short nap I've tried everything. When she is up, she is up. I've managed to cuddle her back to sleep a few times if she wakes either at 20mins or at 45mins if I am very close to the right A and she is relaxed. Yesterday, I got her back after the 25mins for 5mins and then she snapped up in my arms.

The EWs are between 10-11hrs after BT. Sometimes spot on 10hr exactly and then other times like last night I think it was about 10hr45.



Offline *Liz*

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 394
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 16629
  • Living beyond
  • Location: England
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2015, 17:55:38 pm »
I think largely developmental. Thomas often just wakes and lies there, no noise, just suddenly awake. I think my current blip is due to eyesight improving.

I actually got 2 decent naps today of 1h 20. First time in 2 weeks 😉!!

Offline ~Jen~

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 1
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 816
  • Location: A New Yorker living in London
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2015, 19:01:41 pm »
Well done Thomas!!  That is great.  They are slowly coming around to the longer naps even if just once a week.  I got a great morning nap the past 2 mornings - I almost didn't know what to do with myself and all that free time.  ;)   I actually had a chance to sit down and play a full game with my older ones. 

Caia is a total enigma to me.  My others it was so obvious - 30mins nap = OT crying when wake and good chance to resettle.  If not, shorten next A and get a good catch up nap.  Rinse and repeat.  This little monkey I just cannot figure out.  Liz I have to tell myself it is just developmental because I am going crazy with this.  We had another 25min 3rd nap today and then a 30min catnap.  I tried to put her down for EBT and she screamed and screamed and screamed bloody murder.  Then she finally settled / or passed out (I really can't tell the difference) at her normal A time of 1hr40. I was rocking her from 1hr10mins.  30mins of hard crying.  If she was so OT wouldn;t she have fell asleep BF or at least fell asleep earlier in my arms?  Why does she fight so hard? 

Fleur, you asked me if I think she would have settled earlier for 3rd nap.. today I started her wind down at 1hr10mins after a 35mins nap and she fought it until 1hr50mins.  Slightly shorter A time than yesterday but still same 25mins result.  There is no way she could be UT right?



Offline newkidontheblock

  • Resident BW Chatterbox!
  • *****
  • Showing Appreciation 42
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 2649
  • Location:
    • The Genius
Re: Frequent EWs - How do you handle?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2015, 04:05:17 am »
She will not resettle from a short nap I've tried everything. When she is up, she is up.
Well then I guess you would just have to put her down a bit early for the next nap. You might end up with more naps then desired or an earlier bedtime but I think that's just part and parcel of these months.

One more thing, Jen. With Eris, if I started the wind down too early, she would fight me. I remember Katherine advising me not do put down 20 minutes in advance as Tracy mentions and to go in just 5/10 minutes before.

I agree with Liz, though. Months 3 & 4 are just chaotic and hard to understand. There is so much development going on, which interferes with sleep. I went stir crazy around this point: p