8.5 months and naps back to under an hour....

[FroggyMom]

Well, it seems I'm finding myself here again on the nap board...lol!     I had a post going a few months ago when DD started the 3-2 nap transition around 6 months when her naps were down to about 30-45 minutes long.  Thanks to you ladies (especially creations!), I had her consistently on 2 pretty good length naps most days for awhile.  Now, she is 8.5 months old (will be 9 months in 10 days), and her naps are back to around 35 min to just under an hour each time.  This has been going on a few weeks now again I would say.  She also has reflux and is teething again, so I have chalked it up to one of those and hoping it would pass.  However, I'm now thinking I may also need to do some adjustment of A times again.  I'm going to post an example of what our day would normally look like to let you have a look:

7:30 am:  wake-up
E:  7:45 am:  bottle
     8:45 am: food
A:  7:30 am-10:50 am (usually about 3 hr 20 min awake time in the morning)
S: 10:50-11:50 am (nap could be anywhere from about 35 min to an hour usually)
E:  12:00 pm:  bottle
     1:00 pm:  food
A:  11:50 am-3:00 pm (usually about 3 hr 10 min awake time in the afternoon)
S:  3:00-3:45 pm (again nap anywhere from 35 min to an hour roughly)
E:  4:00 pm bottle
E:  6 pm bottle
A:  3:45 pm-7 pm
bedtime anywhere between 7-7:30 pm

From what I've read on here, I'm thinking I need to increase her A times again.  I know it says anywhere from between 3-4 hours at her age.  What is pretty common for her age?  Also, due to her reflux/dairy and soy allergy, I'm finding it very difficult to get her to eat baby food, so her doctor says she still needs 4 bottles a day.  I'm worried when I extend A times that it is going to be hard to fit in all of these feedings again.  Also at her age, are both naps still supposed to be 1.5-2 hours....or is one starting to shorten by now?  Could you help me with what an example of her day could be with nap/feeding times please?  Thanks so much for your help as always!   

[lauraims]

Following as I'm going through the exact same thing. My daughter was born 31st of July! It's so hard isn't it! You think you've cracked it then they start short napping again !!!

[FroggyMom]

You think you've cracked it then they start short napping again !!!

Exactly!  Haha!  Our little girls are just days apart...how neat!  Well after an hour morning nap today, we ended up with a 33 min afternoon nap after a 3 hr 25 min awake time.    How was your day?

[lauraims]

I'm in New Zealand so have only had morning nap so far but amazingly it was 1.5 hours 😳😳 usually it's only 1.05/1.10. That was after just 3 hours WT. So thought id try the shorter first A and longer second. Just put her down after 3.5 WT. So will let you know how it goes 😁

[lauraims]

So she was asleep at 3.40 and is still sleeping at 1.40hrs... Now I feel I need to wake her cause she'll have done over 3 hours sleep today 😁 you just can't win. So maybe try upping your dd's WT to 3.40 and see whAt happens ? My dd is tired in the morning so I'm going to see if first A of 3 and second A of 3.30/3.40 works for a bit 👍

[FroggyMom]

Wow, sounds like she did great! 

Now I feel I need to wake her cause she'll have done over 3 hours sleep today 😁 you just can't win

  Haha!  I feel this exact same way some days!

I'm just at a loss of what to do.  She woke up a little before 7 am this morning.  She was very whiny and acting sleepy well before her normal A time, but I kept her up anyway because I thought she would just not nap well if I did not.  Perhaps I was wrong and should have let her go to bed early?  I'm not sure.  We ended up with 3 hr 23 min A time this morning and another 40 min nap.    So, if she's acting tired before 3 hours is even up in the morning....do I try a shorter first A time now (has always liked longer in the past though)....or do I stretch her to 3 hr 30 min A time and not a minute earlier?

I'm not sure what to try as far as second A time now either?

[FroggyMom]

I was actually aiming for 3 hr 30 min awake time this morning, but she literally fell asleep 2 min after I put her in her crib today.  She just seemed really tired this morning.  I don't know.  She used to wake up between around 7:20-7:30 am, but now consistently wakes around 6:45 am or so as well. 

[FroggyMom]

So, today is not going so well.     I'm going to post our day so far for you guys to please take a look at:

wake-up:  6:54 am
E:   7:20 am:  bottle
      8:20 am:  food
A:  6:54 am-10:17 am (3 hr 23 min A time)
S:  10:17-10:57 am (40 min nap)
E:  11:30 am:  bottle
      12:30 pm:  food
A:  10:57 am- 3:02 pm (4 hr 5 min....okay, okay...now I know I'm tired and losing my mind...until I typed this out I thought I had given her a THREE hour 5 min A time.  sigh. 
S:  3:02 pm - 3:37 pm (35 min nap)
E:  3:48 pm

So, this is where we are for today....help please!!!

[lauraims]

Oh no. Well Yrsterday could have been. Fluke. I'll let you know how today goes. I tried upping first A time but it didn't help and the day got too long and the afternoon nap was always horrible. So I've just decided I'll try shorter first A longer second A, then 3 hr A till bedtime. So you could try what I'm doing. Or keep going with the 3.5 he first A for 3/4 days and see if things improve. Although I'm not a professional. So hopefully me replying doesnt stop someone else giving you some feedback Sorry !

[lauraims]

It was a fluke!!! Same A time, 1.05 nap. Kept up for 3.35 second A and she's just gone to sleep 😁 Ekkk won't be surprised if she wAkes screaming at 30 mins from OT. So we're on the same page! I might tomorrow try for 3.30 first A... It's just so hard!!! And then the day gets long. Immy wakes at 6/6.20 and goes to sleep at 6/6.30. It seems like you have to cut one nap short. But guessing if they have a full 1.5 in the morning, if they have only An hour in the arvo they should be ok till bedtime.

[creations]

Hi there
I think you're right about increasing the A time.
Here are some sample EASYs for 8 months (just scroll down) which you asked for:
chronological EASY samples, 7-9 months

When it comes to feeds just put them in where you can around naps. It is not so crucial now for E to come every 4 hrs as she is having solids meals between which will keep her going a bit, in particular if she is napping past the 4hr mark she won't mind so long as she gets her milk when she wakes. Many go 5hrs between milk feeds due to lengthening A times, nap times and solids routine.  You should still be able to fit those milk feeds in.

Just putting DS to bed, will be back.x

[creations]

Back.

Also at her age, are both naps still supposed to be 1.5-2 hours....or is one starting to shorten by now?

Depends on the LO really. Many begin the transition to 1 nap around 10 months and naps can go off track, it's a time when reducing one nap is more common. Keep that in mind, she is still pretty young for the 2-1 to be starting but mine started at about 9 months and some with low sleep needs are younger so it's not impossible.  The transition to 1 nap can vary quite a lot in length too, for some they move on to 1 nap pretty quickly, for others its a much longer time on 2 naps with a bit of tweaking to keep the routine straight.

If one nap stays long and one nap goes shorter it is totally up to you which way around you go, short morning nap, long afternoon or long morning nap, short afternoon.  I would judge it based on which nap you feel more confident you are going to get a good one from and which keeps LO best rested, or if you have no preference then look at your weekly mum and baby groups and see what would fit best for you to get out and about.

Personally, I would get her A time up even if she looks tired. I had my worst times with an UT baby and have always preferred to work with a bit of OT rather than UT.
I'd go straight to 3hr 30 on the first A now, possibly second A too. Try a W2S at 35 mins to let her know she's to stay asleep.  Hold it there for a few days and if needed move A up to 3hr 45.
As always you don't want to go too fast but pointless dawdling either - the longer she is on a too-short A time the more sleep she is missing.

Are nights ok?

[FroggyMom]

So sorry I haven't been on in awhile.  Right after I posted last, we went out of town on vacation for a little over a week!  We had a great time, but DD's naps could not really be planned out well, and she had to do a lot of napping when she could in the stroller, etc.  These naps ended up being 30-40 minutes naps or so.  However, she mostly slept a full 12 hours while out of town at night.  Today was our first full day back at home, and I had no idea how she would do.  Creations, thank you for pointing me to the sample EASY schedules.  I took your advice and went straight for the 3.5 hour awake time for both naps today.  Here is today's EASY:

wake up:  7:15 am
E:  7:40 am (milk)
     8:40 am (solids)
A:  7:15 -10:44 am (3 hour 29 min awake time)
S:  10:44 am - 12:12 pm (nap #1 of 1 hour 28 min)
E:  12:18 pm (milk)
     1:40 pm (solids)
A:  12:12 pm - 3:45 pm (3 hours 33 min)
S:  3:45 pm - 4:47 pm (nap #2:  I actually woke DD up at 1 hour 2 min as I was worried about bedtime being too late later)
E:  4:48 pm (milk)
E:  6:43 pm (milk)
A:  4:47 pm - 8:05 pm (awake 3 hr 18 min before bed)

So, she ended up with a 12 hr 50 min day.  So, now my questions is this....the 3.5 hour awake time seemed to definitely help DD's naps today.  However, with this increased A time before both naps, I'm afraid it is pushing bedtime back too late.  I don't think she is quite to the 2 to 1 transition yet.  I think she would've slept longer for the second nap today if I had let her.  So, do I let her sleep as long as she wants for the 2 naps?  Or do I wake her early to preserve bedtime?

Are nights ok?

Yes, fortunately even when DD's naps don't go so well, she is usually a great sleeper at night.  She usually does 11-12 hours at night.

Although I'm not a professional. So hopefully me replying doesnt stop someone else giving you some feedback  Sorry !

Not at all!  Don't be sorry!  It is always helpful to talk with someone going through the same thing at the same time!  I'm sorry I haven't been on in awhile. 

I might tomorrow try for 3.30 first A... It's just so hard!!! And then the day gets long. Immy wakes at 6/6.20 and goes to sleep at 6/6.30. It seems like you have to cut one nap short. But guessing if they have a full 1.5 in the morning, if they have only An hour in the arvo they should be ok till bedtime.

Exactly!  This is what I'm running into now.  After a 1.5 hour nap this morning, I had to cut the second nap short at an hour.  What have you been doing?  How are you getting along?

[creations]

That day looks great, even more so when considering you'd been away and it was your first full day home! Great!

I would continue like that and see how things pan out over the next week or so.

If she appears not to been getting enough sleep (when she's settling into this routine) then you can try one of these:
- let nap 2 lengthen to say 1hr 15 or 1hr 30 and see where BT needs to go. She may still do an 8pm BT with the shorter A time to BT
(this option may move BT a little later but some LOs are better rested when sleep is spread more between day and night, the extra 15-30 mins nap can be worth more than 30 mins extra night sleep)
or
- continue to cap nap 2 but bring BT earlier, again a shorter A to BT but she may welcome it after the shorter nap
(this option offers a longer night sleep which some LOs prefer)
or
- reduce the second A time, nap comes earlier so she is happier with a shorter nap (still cap at 1hr)
(this option gives same amount of day sleep but automatically brings BT a little earlier offering a longer night)

It really depends on her individual needs and preferences.  Mine always did a shorter night so needed a longer day nap. Super long A time in the morning, 2 hr nap, shorter A time to shorter afternoon nap, with the shortest A to BT.

let us know how you get on

[FroggyMom]

Thank you for all of the options!  I will see how her week looks.  She did wake up about an hour earlier than normal today at 6:30 am.  I have noticed if she is asleep between 7:15-7:30 pm, she usually sleeps 11.5-12 hours at night.  However, if she goes to sleep past 7:30 pm, we get shorter nights.  She fell asleep at 8:05 last night so did 10 hr 25 min night sleep.  That doesn't seem like enough to me.  What do you think?  I'm wondering which option would get her to sleep by at least 7:30 pm the best.  Maybe the last option you gave?