Getting rid of bottle at 2.5yrs

[Clairehv]

Hi
5-6 weeks ago we had a little girl who went to bed quite easily. Bathtime, pjs story accompanied by a bottle of milk ( I know we should have got rid of this before now but we didn't and she always went to bed awake and settled herself)

In the last month we have entered a whole world if issues.
Separation anxiety caused by my working away and DH doing bedtime meant she wouldn't settle for about 1.5 hours and after getting upset would ask for more milk which to be fair to DH he was on his own he gave into ( understandably)
Then we had a horrendous 10 days of chicken pox where she was very poorly. She was finding it so hard to settle that I held her hand at bedtime and she was waking 3-4 times a night and sometimes asking for milk. She didn't eat for a week due to the pox in her mouth and I think was using the bottle as a comfort.

So now we are in a situation where
a) she has a bottle of milk before going to bed and sometimes asks for another
b) needs me to sit next to bed and hold hand until she falls asleep (10mins to 45mins)
c) wakes in night wanting nappy changed (had horrendous pox in genitals and bottom so I was changing her 3-4 times at nighttime
Will go back into cot at night after nappy change but won't settle unless has milk

Ok so I my aim was to get bedtime on track and her sleeping through before tackling getting rid of the bottle at bedtime but I am not sure whether we just need to tackle it and deal with the fall out.
I can imagine that it is going to be horrendous.
I also work full time and find being awake in the night really hard work.
I also note that she is a spirited child and I imagine can cry for more than 2 hours if she doesn't get her own way ( we have never done CC ) but just in terms of how long it can take for her to settle for DH when she wants me instead this could be 2+ hours.

Do we switch to a beaker or just nothing at all?
Thank you.

[Shiv52]

Hugs xx

 Honestly I wouldn't give any milk, it's not great for teeth to have milk over them all night. You could give a beaker of milk before bed then brush teeth then have a beaker of water available after that.

If sounds like she has had a lot going on. I'd likely get rid of the milk and just be prepared to be consistent and stay with her and reassure her maybe on and off holding her hand rather than constantly so you don't make another prop. Then after a few days start moving out of the room and then do a more WI/WO approach. If she's always had a bottle going to bed she is going to have to find a new way to settle herself to sleep so I do think she'll need a bit of help. How's her understanding?  I think both of mine at that age would have got that the dentist say no more milk at  the night as it is bad for teeth.

My friends DD just to give you an idea screamed on and off for 5 hours the first night they stopped milk at night. Same the next night. Day 3 was about 3 hours and then it got better really quick. By day 6 she was waking briefly once needing a quick head rub then going back to sleep. Awful week but worth it in the end.

Also should check what her day is like?  Is she napping?  Day sleep can affect nights too x

[patsy32]

Hi Claire
just stopping by with ((hugs)). My dd is also the same age as yours and also still has a bottle before bed . Iv been thinking about getting rid of it too but due to her night sleeping gone to pot I've hung onto it for now.
Iam going to follow your tread here if you don't mind as we're having several nw's and ew's also. I'm just interested to know what advice you receive as I might be stealing those tips for myself 
you actually helped me before over on the naps board when we were parents of babies (seems so long ago now) my dd wouldn't nap in creche and now wount sleep at night! ! Maybe when their 18 it might get better for us     

[Clairehv]

Hi Patsy
Hugs back, I dream of that day we get our lives back 

Just to say something positive about E, as I don't feel I ever do at the moment.
She decided yesterday that she didn't want to wear a nappy. So potty training had to start. 2 days in wee's and one poo on potty and no accidents. So pleased I waited for her to want to do it. Her personality means she won't do something if she does not want to.

 Back to bottle.
We have reduced the volume. Last night DH did bedtime. Didn't request a 2nd bottle and hand held for 30 mins ..... but slept until 5.50am when she did a,wee in nappy and,wanted it changed. Dreadful wake up time but best sleep I have had for weeks.

Tonight bedtime was worse. All calm and into cot then said she wanted wee wee. Had to get out take off nappy and had a wee on potty. Then wouldn't get back in cot without another drink of milk!.......
I know I know, I need to get rid of the milk and at the very least not give another.

I just dread how horrendous the bedtime is going to be.

May start tomorrow if I get some sleep tonight. I need to be mentally and physically refreshed to get through it.

Think E could probably beat the 5 hours resistanc 

[patsy32]

Do you think your nw's are due to the hand holding or a drop in sleep needs?
ours is definitely due to change in sleep needs but I just can't get it figured out what suits her best as she changes from nw's to ew's every couple of days! !
God bless all women who have survived this and actually were brave enough to go through it again 

That's great news with the potty training. fingers crossed it goes well and she quickly gets used to the idea. I haven't even considered entering that realm yet. Dd hates even getting out of the bath and not having a nappy on. She had a few accidents ages ago while running around with no nappy on after bath and she nearly lost her life with fright  each time so going to leave it be for now.
I think I'm also going to try and introduce brushing teeth after her bt bottle on the way to bed instead of when she gets out of the bath and see how it goes for a while.
If I could get her night sleeping sorted out I'd be so happy for now. And I foolishly believed things would get easier as they got older, how wrong was I........
Hugs again and fingers crossed for a good night for us all 

[Clairehv]

I think the night wakings are a hangover from the chicken pox when she was genuinely waking up because she was poorly and any wetness in the nappy hurt the pox sores that were infected. Unfortunately as her sleep was so dreadful and she just couldn't settle at all that's when I was giving milk at nights. I literally for 4 days had no more than 3 hours sleep.

Her daytime nap we cap at 1hr15. 1 hour is too short for her. Results in an awfully grumpy/emotional afternoon and melt downs at bathtime.
She would happily sleep for 2 hours though if we let her.
She tends to sleep 12.45ish to 2pm ish.

I am going to switch to the beaker tonight and yes I am going to do a toothbrush after bathtime but then introduce one in the bedroom after milk.
I am dreading tonight.
X

[Buttonbobs]

Hi there, this was a tough time for us too and so you have my sympathies. This too will pass (I kept repeating to myself and eventually it did).

Claire - what time is she waking in the morning and what time are you trying for BT?

It does sound like a mixture of getting back on track following the illness, and dropping the milk, and also needing to become more independent going to sleep again. We often have periods of greater need around illness and I suppose coming at a similar time to a six month potential disequilibrium developmentally, this could be a rough patch for her.

Hugs x

[Clairehv]

Hi
Thank you for the support, we certainly have a lot going on with E, however the good news is last night wasn't as bad as feared.
I let her choose a beaker before going up to bed which she did and we actually had the happiest bathtime for a while. Got dried etc fine.
Then as we walking to the bedroom she started saying not want breaker want bottle!! Anyway managed to deflect and got pjs on.
Then the crying for bottle started. I just kept calmly saying 'bottle broken darling only beaker. She,refused to sit on my knee and refused beaker and then clearly as I was the 'badguy' she asked for Daddy. So actually told me to leave bedroom.
So DH read,her a story and after a bit of fafing she did have some milk. Then another 15mins of not wanting to go in cot. He eventually got her into cot about 8pm and I went for last night night on request. I sat in chair and ignored her asking for more milk. Held hand just said shhh night night and actually she was asleep by 8.20pm
From starting process at 6.50pm I am so delighted with that purely as it was much better than expected and we didn't hit full hysteria.
I imagine she will still ask for bottle for a few nights but we will stay the course.
She woke at 10.45pm but just lay trying to settle holding my hand until 11 30pm.
She woke this morning at 7.20am

Button bobs, pre illness she was sleeping 7pm- 7.15ish am.

The hand hold is the obvious prop now however I think we need to give her a few nights of breaker before starting GW?

Will update on tonight.
X

[Buttonbobs]

That sounds like a good plan, if you're going to work on perfecting the bottle removal at this point, it would be my recommendation to give the beaker before teeth brushing to make sure you're giving her teeth the best chance you can.

Seeing as it's going to be a hard transition anyway, you might want to start it this way as soon as possible so that you don't have to do a second hard shift another time

[Shiv52]

Great first night. But I agree with pp. the issue isn't really the bottle, it's the milk right before bed isn't it?  So if you give it in a beaker you'll have to fade that too.  So rather than saying the bottle is broken I'd say we have milk before teeth not in bed anymore. You guys are doing so well. Seems unfair on you all to get rid of the bottle to then have to get rid of the beaker or introduce teeth brushing in bed to then work on hand holding?

[Clairehv]

I know we have so much to deal with don't we.
I know we should be brushing before bed/after milk.
My bigger concern was the increasing reliance on milk to settle which is so silly at 2.5 years.
Anyway another night of crying and getting very upset at no bottle but nothing I can't bear and again a long time to settle with handhold but asleep by 7.45pm.

I think she/we have done well but yes if I ever have #2 the main main thing I would change Is drop the bottle at 12 months and definitely no milk in bedroom after 12 months.
Oh well we live and learn.

I am so proud of her potty training as well. No wee accidents in first 4 days and only 1 poo accident yesterday where she told DH but he didn't get potty to her quick enough.

So will see how we go with NWs and tooth brushing.
X

[Buttonbobs]

good luck, here with you x

[Shiv52]

You're doing great. I always still offered a drink at bedtime but made it water so you could do that and then you don't have to worry about teeth x

Hope the night went well x

[Clairehv]

Hi
Sorry been a bit quiet this weekly. Sadly that doesn't mean everything is going well.
We seem to lurch from one issue to the next and I may have to start a new thread.
Dropping the bottle and switching to a beaker has gone ok, no crying for it after the third night but bedtime is still a battle considering we are well over the pox now.

DH had to do bedtime on Monday and Tuesday as I was away with work and she gets so upset asking for me. Anyway he got through pjs and story in anyway he could and then held her hand until she was asleep which was taking up to an hour.
We had a NW on Sunday and Monday.

The bedtimes for me are not going much better and I just wonder if we need to switch anything around.
We a capping her nap at 1hr15 and waking at around 2pm
6pm supper and 10 mins cartoon.
Upstairs to bathroom which instead of a pleasure is a battle with her. Lots of messing around to get her in bath. 10-15 min bath depending on start time.
Then dried toothbrushing and into bedroom for pjs and then story on knee.
Into cot which she usually goes in no problem and final 'once upon a time' story of her day and night night.
Then the fun starts. It is as if she can't settle.
She insists I sit on the chair and she will usually stay lying down but will roll around. Bang the slats of her cot. Play tent with her duvet, sing, ask for another story, hold my hand until finally lies still and goes to.sleep. this is taking around 45 mins.
If I try and leave the room she gets upset and it prolongs the process.
So she is now not getting to sleep until nearly 8pm
Yesterday she woke at 6.30am, this morning at 5.50am (urgh)

She doesn't resist her nap at all and would probably sleep 1.1/2 hrs if allowed
We have tried bath later but get a meltdown.

Suggestions on if this is just a bedtime phase? Or if we need to tweak her day.
Or implement GW as is me being in the room an excuse for her to mess about to delay sleep?

Please let me know if I should repost this as I think we have moved on from the bottle issue.
Thank you
Claire x

[Shiv52]

So you get her up at 2pm from her nap and start bedtime routine at what time?  What time does she tend to be in bed?

I wonder is UT?  At that age my DD2 didn't nap but my DD1 did. And if she woke from an hour nap at 2pm it would have been at least 7.45/8pm before I could have expected her to go to bed. She needed the A time to sleep properly and well at night and we got an 11 hour ish night.