Stubborn 3yo fights every step of bedtime routine

[MakingMischief]

Hey everyone,

Desperate for some guidance here. Colin is three, and he's started becoming more and more defiant at bedtime. It's hard to tell when it started but it's definitely gotten worse over the past few weeks.

Our routine starts around 7. We'll have a snack, brush teeth, wash face, change into pajamas, read two books, sit together in the rocking chair, then he lies down in bed and I sit next to the bed until he falls asleep. If he needs a bath that night, we do bath at the beginning, around 6:45.

The problem is that more and more, he's been fighting us every step of the way. Bathtime, he usually is OK with. Teeth brushing, he fights, clamps his jaw shut and refuses to let me brush. Pajamas, he won't sit still and will try to strip his jammies off every time we put them on. Sometimes he'll calm down for book reading, but as soon as it's time to lie down he goes berzerk.  He stands up on the bed, sits on the very edge, gets out of bed (and me putting him back into bed turns into a game and he just giggles while he jumps out and I grab him to put him back). I tell him to lay down, he immediately stands/sits up. I tell him to be quiet, he said "I'm not quiet. I'm talking. I'm talking, mommy. I'm talking." If I try to sit and ignore him, he grabs at me or climbs out of bed or otherwise makes himself impossible to ignore. Eventually, after anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour of this, he will fall asleep.

Bedtime has become extremely stressful around our household and I end the day feeling fed up and angry with my toddler. So far, I try to use counting to get him under control - "I'm going to count to five, and if you aren't lying down I'm going to leave the room and you'll have to fall asleep by yourself" or "if you get out of bed three more times, I'm going to leave." A couple times I have walked out of the room (baby gate up in the doorway) and he screams and howls and carries on until I finally cave. I don't like the idea of making him "cry it out" but I feel like I have zero control over the situation and I'm so tired of being angry every night.

What to do?

[Hedgehog17]

DS has gone through phases of this!

For toothbrushing he gets a warning, then I hold his nose so he has to open his mouth. Teeth must be brushed, that is not negotiable. It doesn't hurt him but it does annoy him so he yells - and into the open mouth the toothbrush goes 

For PJs I'd just say 'ok, you don't want to wear them tonight' and he'll soon change his mind when he feels cold. Same with wearing a coat when going outside 

For BT shenanigins I use WIWO. Calmly return him to bed without engaging with him, and he will eventually stay there. It can take a while, but LO will tire of the game as it's boring for them if you don't talk to them or join in the drama. If you can get help you can tag team in short shifts with another adult so you get a break from the yelling 

Now DS is older he loses a story if he messes around!

All tried and tested and successful methods with my monkey - HTH 

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

What does his routine look like atm? Is he napping? Just wondering if he is ut at bedtime and that is leading to the shenanigans. Of course there is always the birthday/half birthday growth & development spurts to blame for sleep disturbances as well

[jessmum46]

^^^^this.  We get all kinds of BT silliness when UT or very OT/OS but none at all on 'normal' days. Would be interesting to see your routine x

[MakingMischief]

He typically wakes up around 7am, and breakfast comes shortly thereafter. However, it changes after that. Some days (2-3 each week) he goes to daycare, where he always naps from 12:30ish to 2pmish. He's a great sleeper for them. On days when he's at home (either because one or both of us are off work, or because Daddy's home in the morning and I work a half day) he's been skipping the nap - I'll make him stay in his room in his bed but he'll sit and play quietly, talk and giggle to himself, page through a book, etc. I make him have at least 45 minutes of quiet time but after that I'll let him get up.

The problem is that it doesn't seem to make a difference whether he naps or not, it seems like most nights he ends up fighting. The only times he goes straight to bed is when for whatever reason we don't end up putting him to bed until very late. But most other parents I know have 7-8pm bedtimes for their kids, so my husband's suggestion of just keeping him up until 9pm each night seems odd.

Another issue is that my husband gets off work around 8ish some days (the days that he's home in the morning), so Colin knows on those days that Daddy should be getting home soon. Some nights I think he tries to stay up until my husband gets home, maybe?

Maybe I'll keep a log over the next week of how he does at bedtime. Today we all spent the afternoon going for a bike ride and then out to eat so he had a big afternoon, and he went right to bed without complaint. Maybe there's a key formula of just the right amount of afternoon sleep and activity.

[jessmum46]

I would say 1.5h nap may be giving you UT at bedtime, and if you don't bring BT forwards on a no nap day, then probably OT second wind on those days.  Can you try capping his nap to an hour consistently and see if that helps?  That may help him to nap at home too.  Also I would bring BT up to an hour early on no nap days and see if that helps him settle better.  Physical activity sounds a good plan too - perhaps some time running around for half an hour before bed?

[Clairehv]

Hi
Really interested in this thread as I am going through exactly the same with my 31 month old.
Everything from bathtime is a battle to the point where nothing is a nice relaxing time as she won't even now sit to have a story.

I get exactly the same feelings and completely resent bedtime s now. I stay calm. But she just won't settle at all.
Will watch how it goes,and please let me know what works to improve the situation.

[Lindsay27]

Interested also because we have the exact same thing as well. I did suspect UT as my DS also naps 1-1.5hrs at preschool, however their rest time is mandatory and if given the opportunity he will fall asleep. On NND at home it is unfortunately not much different because in those days he seems really OT. Can't win here.

[MakingMischief]

Well, we haven't had much improvement. I started pushing bedtime back on days when he's at daycare and pushing it forward on no-nap days but I'm still having problems.

On no-nap days I have him in his bed by 7pm, while on nap days I have him down around 8:30. But he's still fighting. He'll go through the routine well - brushing his teeth, getting jammies on, reading books - but after that he starts resisting. He'll stay in bed, but stand up, or sit up, or move so his legs are straight up against the wall, or kick his feet, or or or... He just won't sit still. And when I tell him to lie down or to be quiet, he just firmly says "I CAN'T" and goes on with whatever he's doing. If I leave the room he howls for me, if I go sit in a chair across the room he gets out of bed to come get me or comes right to the edge of the bed and reaches for me.

I've tried playing a game with him where I have him wiggle individual parts of his body (toes, then feet, then legs, and so on) and then have them go still but he still doesn't settle after that.  I also tried building in 10-15 minutes of sitting together in the rocking chair after books and talking about his day or whatever he wants to talk about, to give him one last chance to "get it all out," but he usually slides off the chair and goes to his bed after a few minutes.

So, two questions: Any techniques I can teach him for helping him fall asleep? And how should I react when he's squirming and fighting sleep? I just sit quietly by myself and don't respond to him, or quietly shush him. But reminding him that it's time to lie down or time to stop talking doesn't do any good - I say "it's time to be quiet now" and he replies with "BUT I'M TALKING. I'M TALKING MOMMY. MOMMY DO YOU HEAR ME? I'M NOT BEING QUIET, I'M TALKING."

Man, we had a one-year grace period between 12m and 24m where all I had to do was plop him in his crib and he'd go to sleep. Ever since we transitioned to a toddler bed he's been a mess. I'd really like to get him straightened out before the new baby comes because 2-hour bedtime routines time two kids does NOT sound appealing :/

[Lindsay27]

Oh my goodness I seriously could have written this myself.  It's late here and I'm tired but I will be back to post tomorrow for now, massive hugs!! We are also fighting the good fight, I know how utterly exhausting it is.

[Haribo2012]

My DS has just turned 3, we had this for a good couple of months, 32-34 months I'd say, mainly due to the nap for us!
Now he has max 20 mins on the odd days and the messing has pretty much stopped, I must say I did have to get quite tough at BT.
We had deals, I'd say "which 2 books do you want to read, then after first book we will have a last wee. If no wee no last story do you understand"
Then after this last story it will be time to turn light off and mummy will be going to do a few jobs before her BT.
He'd then ask me to stay in his room, so I'd say lets have a last bedtime cuddle and kiss then mummy will go and do her jobs.
Then as I went to go he'd say will you sit in my room so is say I'll sit on the stairs so I can hear your ok, shall I sit on the top or bottom step.
He'd chose a step and then I'd sit there until it went quiet, he'd often say are you still there. Id reply yes I'm here night night, quiet now.
If he messed about I'd say remember the deal I'll stay on the step if your quiet, close your eyes and go to sleep, okay....he'd mostly reply ok and that would be it. x

[pareeta]

We are going through the same exact thing with my DD. We just transitioned to a bed 5 days ago, and now it takes her almost two hours to go to sleep if she's had a nap (even an hour). If she doesn't nap, then i get her down by 6:30 and she's asleep by 7. If she doesn't get her 12 hours of sleep at night, then i have an OT child the next day...whining, tantrums, etc. I'm at my wits end being 7 months pregnant! Anyways, HUGS to you. At least we are all in it together

[michaeljacknnugg]

I think he's probably old enough now to take control of his own sleep times. Can you leave him with some books and a small light on, and let him get into bed/go to sleep when he chooses? They could be sticker or doodle books rather than reading ones, if that helps.

Say you will be back to check on him in 5 mins, and make sure that you are, and then lengthen it out to longer intervals as he gets more confident on his own.

He might stay up for a long time at first, but hopefully his body will get used to it and self-regulate.