Nw in evening between 7 and DF at 10:30

[arabesque]

Hi!

My dd is 7.5 months
The past week she's been waking before the DF. Sometimes 30 mins before, sometimes an hour or more before. We need a bit of help to understand why and see if we can fix it

Routine is

Bf 7am
Solids 8ish
Top up bf 9ish
Nap 10ish-11:30 (except today, a 45 min)
Bf 12
Solids 1
Nap 2:30-3:15/3:30
Bf 4ish
Solids 5
Bath
Bf 6:30 (she falls asleep during this feed)
Night wakings
DF 10:30
NF usually round 4, last night woke 2, we tried to resettle, I fed at 3

Please offer your ideas (and solutions, lol)

We are unfortunately in the trap of patting her to sleep for naps and if she wakes in the night. We are trying to allow her to mantra cry tonight (nw at 9:20pm, mantra crying now )

[newkidontheblock]

Well, NWs for us between BT & DF were generally indicative of OT, mainly caused by her getting overall less day sleep. Do you know how much sleep she requires during the day? At 7 months, it would be at least between 2.30 - 3 hours, maybe more. But she seems to be getting only 1.45 (you said nap 1 is generally 45 minutes) So getting her to nap longer during the day should fix this problem. If you are finding the first nap constantly only being 45 minutes, maybe push A times a bit?

[arabesque]

Thanks nap 1 is usually an hour and a half, except today but I did free her back to sleep to extend :/
So she gets about 2.5 hours on a good day. But these early evening nw are new, she's been on this two nap routine for a month and these have become consistent only within the last week-2 weeks.

I could push her morning a time and try for a 2 hr nap?

[newkidontheblock]

It might be accumulated OT. This happened to us just after the 3-2 transition also. It took around a week of consistently good naps to get back on track. Do you keep a log of her days? If so, you could check out how much day sleep she normally needs.

[arabesque]

Well we've had a week of ear infections and she's woken consistently between 9:30 and 10 each night and continues to do so. Neither of us can settle her, it's like she wants to get up and play. If I feed, she's not hungry and will take one side only or bite me.

It seems a habitual waking, I don't think it's ot, especially as in the past few days she's napped 5-6 times a day due to being sick.

[newkidontheblock]

Poor baby. Is she still in some discomfort or has the infection cleared up? If it is habitual, you could try one of these methods
How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
HTH!

[arabesque]

Hello again!

Still me, and still same issue. Dd is waking before DF, and I don't know why. She is mostly well again, our routine has been consistent and she copes well in the day, she's happy etc. but always waking between 9:30 and 10, and unsettled. We can't settle her unless I feed, but she's not hungry and doesn't root for a feed (it just happens as last resort and because it's nearly time for the DF).

Any suggestions? Maybe it's time to drop the DF? Though we still have a night feed, and if it's before 3am she has an ew as she can't make it til 7am for the next feed?!

[newkidontheblock]

We can't settle her unless I feed, but she's not hungry and doesn't root for a feed

Puzzling. You are right that since DF is going to happen, best to just feed.

Could you post your routine once more? Especially the E portion. How is her milk intake during the day? I don't want to make any general statements but I that first waking seems more habitual. Also a bit strange if she has an EW after feeding at 3. It's possible there is more to this than meets the eye and your routine would help us narrow it down.

[arabesque]

Thanks so much

Routine is pretty much the same every day.

Wake and BF 7am
Solids 8am
Top up bf 9ish (always wants this!)
Sleep 10:15ish-11:30/40
Bf 12
Solids 1
Sleep in car 2:30/40-3:10 (have to wake to get preschooler
Bf 4
Solids 5
Bath
Bf 6:40
Bed 7 (most often has fallen asleep feeding due to long afternoon)

So the day is great and she's a happy baby.

Night...very varied! 4 out of 5 nights she'll wake before the DF. Last time she wanted me, Dh couldn't pacify her, and as soon as I went in (I had been out and he called me to come home) she went silent and cuddles me for 30mins before wanting a feed.

That night she then slept through (amazing!)

Most nights she wake between 9:30 and 10:30, and we'll leave her to mantra cry. When she's on fire then I'll feed. Then we have a NF usually round 4. But lately as early as 2, and I have noticed if I feed before 3, she'll EW.

Last night she stirred at 9:30, didn't wake (!!) DF at 10:30, NF at 4:40, up at 7.

Night before she woke 9:45, distressed, then fed 10:20 and slept through.

Night before that wke 10:15, fed, then woke at 2:30, I let her mantra til 3, fed, she ew at 5:45, went bavk to sleep til 6:15, when I fed to try to keep her asleep (didn't work)

She's a mystery to me! Thanks for your help!

[arabesque]

I have wondered if it's indigestion of some sort...but I think I'm clutching at straws!

[newkidontheblock]

Sorry that it has taken me so long to respond. A bit manic on my end.

Sleep in car 2:30/40-3:10 (have to wake to get preschooler
Bf 4
Solids 5
Bath
Bf 6:40
Bed 7 (most often has fallen asleep feeding due to long afternoon)

So looking at your routine, I feel that it might be due to a combination of not enough day sleep and too long an A to bed. Since it isn't possible to get a longer pm nap, would it be possible for you to go for an earlier BT instead? With a CN ending at 3.10ish, I would go for a 6 pm bedtime latest. Basically, if you can't get her the requisite amount of day sleep in 12 hours, shorten your day.

Along with this,you could also work on pushing the am nap a bit later. At 8 months, we were doing 3.45 I think. Maybe try pushing in 5-10 minute increments every few days. This way hopefully that nap will lengthen out and also then a CN will be fine to get you'll through to BT.

[arabesque]

No problem, I appreciate any time you've got time to reply. Very thankful

I will try moving bedtime a bit earlier and see how we go! When is it about the right time to start thinking about weaning the DF?

[arabesque]

Today I just want to cry. Last night was so bad, well one of her worst anyway. Compared to where she was!

She woke 9:50pm, I resettled and she slept til DF at 10:30
She woke 1:45, I resettled, she woke 2:09, dh tried, I went in, she had a dirty nappy so changed that, tried to resettle for ages, fed 3:15. She has slept through before; she has done solid nights until 4/4:30 before, and now nw are earlier and earlier. The night before was 12:15! Then resettled until 4:40 feed.

I just can't see any pattern! Pretty sure the before DF is habitual...but the nights are just without pattern it seems.

[newkidontheblock]

Do you think she might be reverse cycling? It sure sounds like it since you are able to settle her but she wakes again soon and is actually eating. Regarding weaning the DF, Tracy says around 7 months but I know many mums here, me included, who have done it much longer. If you find that it isn't making a difference to her nights, wean it. But she needs to make up those calories in the day

[arabesque]

Thanks- not sure what reverse cycling is?

I think she's been too hungry! She eats small amounts of solids but seems to have reverted to purée and is eating heaps more- maybe she's been overly hungry

Last night for dinner she ate a large amount of purée, then didn't wake before the DF, then woke 2:50, resettled until 3:15 (by herself) fed, and then woke 6:25.

She has had a good breakfast and lunch today (both purees) so I'm hopeful for a good night. She has always been crying for the mashed foods after a few bites, and I would give a huge selection, but maybe she was crying because the texture was no good rather than the choice?!