Trying to cut out the cat nap but affecting e times.. Help!!!

[Asha G]

Hi there really hope someone can suggest how to deal with my lo as I am trying to cut out the catnap.. She us going to be 6 months in 2 weeks time and am thinking of starting Solids soon ..
My routine for last few weeks has been:

E 730 7 ounces formula
S 930
E 1130 bf
S 130
E 330 bf plus 4 ounces top up
S 530 , catnap
E 630 bf
BT 830
DF 7 ounces formula

My lo wasn't putting on much weight so needed to fit in an extra feed ..

For the last 3 days I've tried to increase a time by about 20 mins which she seems to hav done really well with so my new routine looks like this:

E 730
S 950 (2 hour nap)
E12pm
S 220pm (2 hour nap)
E 430pm
S 630pm catnap
E 7pm ( have it wake her so bedtime isn't pushed back too much)
BT 830/9pm

So the new routine seems to work quite well until we get to around 630.. Too late for a Full catnap but too early for bedtime .. How do I manage this timing until my lo is able to do the 3 hour a time???

Also she's going 4.5 hours between Her first 2 feeds.. Is this too long??? I didn't want to wake her from her 2 hour nap as she seems to want/need it?

And when she does get to 3 hour a time what should her e times look like?

Thank you do much for your help and advice!!!!! 

[newkidontheblock]

Hi Asha, welcome to BW
On your new routine, the day seems to be pretty long. It is best to go for a 12-12.5 hour day. If WU time is 7.30, BT should also be between 7-7.30 -- max 8pm.

So the new routine seems to work quite well until we get to around 630.. Too late for a Full catnap but too early for bedtime .. How do I manage this timing until my lo is able to do the 3 hour a time???

Actually, using an earlier bedtime is a good move during this transition as her A times are increasing. So if her nap is ending at 2.30, a 6 pm bedtime should be good. Actually, right now, it's possible to do 2 naps as both of her naps are 2 hours each. If either is shorter, you would have to keep the CN and push BT. With 3-2, A times need to be closer to 2.45 -3. I'm sure you'll be there pretty soon as times jump pretty quickly at this point. As her A increases, you can slowly push bedtime back to her usual time.

Also she's going 4.5 hours between Her first 2 feeds.. Is this too long??? I didn't want to wake her from her 2 hour nap as she seems to want/need it?

No, that's absolutely fine. If she was hungry, she would wake up and ask to be fed.  And solids will also enter the picture now.

And when she does get to 3 hour a time what should her e times look like?

At 6 months, our A was 3.20 and I was nursing on WU in the morning & from both naps + before bed. We also did a DF between 10 & 11pm.

Have you seen this? All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

Hope that helps:)

[Asha G]

Thank you so much fur such a quick reply!!! I really appreciate it!
I wanted to have a 12 hour day but was struggling to fit in the extra feed we needed wen she wasnt putting on as much weight. So am definitely going to try bedtime earlier.. My worry however is that she will wake up earlier in the morning as currently we put her down at 830/9 and she starts waking around 6am playing.. Then she sometimes drifts back to sleep until I wake her at 730..
If I try the earlier bedtime at 630pm and she does wake the next day early morning wanting to play what should I do if she doesn't go back to sleep?

Yes I have read that link and trying to follow but having only just started in reading her a times I'm still struggling to get her to 2 hrs 30 mins as she seems to get cranky around 2 hrs 15 but it's only been a couple days so hoping this will improve.

So based on her routine so far if she feeds today at 430pm then should I feed again at 630 so that she can go to sleep at 7pm? Will that not be too close together To her last feed? We also do dream feed around 10pm.
Also should I bring her bedtime forward in increments or just change it in one go?

Thank you! 

[newkidontheblock]

My worry however is that she will wake up earlier in the morning as currently we put her down at 830/9 and she starts waking around 6am playing..

This might be as she is OT due to the late BT and the super long day. Don't worry -- an earlier bedtime does not mean an earlier wake up time. It is just such a great tool to use during transitions and slowly, you will ease back into a normal BT as her A increases.

If I try the earlier bedtime at 630pm and she does wake the next day early morning wanting to play what should I do if she doesn't go back to sleep?

This shouldn't happen but if it does, start your day and if necessary do a catnap to get to BT. During this transition, you need to be a bit flexible with doing/not doing the CN depending on how the day's naps go.

I'm still struggling to get her to 2 hrs 30 mins as she seems to get cranky around 2 hrs 15 but it's only been a couple days so hoping this will improve.

If she is not ready for more A, relax and just keep the CN. Not all babies go through this transition between 5-6 months. Many do it later.

So based on her routine so far if she feeds today at 430pm then should I feed again at 630 so that she can go to sleep at 7pm?

What time has her nap ended for 7pm BT? Hope not too big a gap I had a issue with there not being a big enough gap between the feed after nap 2 & BT. The solution for us was to do a top -up feed at around 3/3.30, which left a big gap to bed.

Another thing that is done is 2 feeds in the first A - on WU & before the nap. Then solids and next feed around 2/2.30pm and last feed at bedtime. You'll have to get a bit creative:)

Also should I bring her bedtime forward in increments or just change it in one go?

Do you mean early bed time? That is just a bedtime based on what A your baby can handle after her nap -- that is, you put her to bed earlier than usual before she gets OT.

[Asha G]

Thank you! Yes I think my problem is I want a set a time straight away but as you have said i need to do it day by day so sometimes catnap and sometimes not!

Wel so far i have never had a 7pm bedtime so until now she would wake up from her 2nd nap at about 330 or 4pm and then catnap from 530-630pm or 6-7pm which is why her bedtime was 830/9pm.
Now that I'm trying to increase her a time, her 2nd nap is now due to finish at 430pm (if she sleeps the full 2 hours) which is why I'm now getting confused about whether to have a catnap or go straight to bedtime. If I try to keep her up again for another 2.5 hr a time ,as I've done so far today then bedtime wil be 7pm.

I want to try 7pm bedtime today which means ill have to try a 630pm feed . My worry is she won't be hungry as at 430 pm she wil have had bm plus formula top up so may be too full to take anymore at 630??
Then her usual dream feed will be around 10pm and will see how she goes through the night.
If once ivd put her down at 7pm she wakes up before her 10pm dream feed is due should I try putting her back down or just give her the dream feed earlier if she won't settle?

[newkidontheblock]

should I try putting her back down or just give her the dream feed earlier if she won't settle?

Hope tings are going well. If you can't settle her, give her a feed. But technically, she shouldn't be hungry so soon

[Asha G]

Hi there so sorry for the late reply I didn't realise you had posted another message!
Well so far it seems to be going ok.. Lo is doing about 2 hours 30 mins awake time although she stil sometimes needs to sleep by 2 hrs 20..
But have managed to cut out the catnaP and she is in bed by 7/730..!
Still doing the dream feed around 10 .. She usually stirs a little but then goes to sleep pretty much straight away afterwards but the last couple nights she has woken up fully and starts playing when we put her down after her dream feed... Could there be any reason for this at all?
Am starting her on solids soon so will try to drop the dream feed depending on how she takes with the solids ..

[newkidontheblock]

the last couple nights she has woken up fully and starts playing when we put her down after her dream feed... Could there be any reason for this at all?

Well, that is why Tracy recommends weaning the dreamfeed around this time - it can start to be a disturbance. That's what happened with us. First DD began waking up during and staying awake through it but would SS. Then she stopped settling and we had to help her. 2 days of that and we weaned cold turkey:p Of course, we weaned at 9 months. Lol. Just watch and see if this continues.

[~Sara~]

Still doing the dream feed around 10 .. She usually stirs a little but then goes to sleep pretty much straight away afterwards but the last couple nights she has woken up fully and starts playing when we put her down after her dream feed... Could there be any reason for this at all?

We had this happen when DS was a baby...turns out our doing the DF at that particular time just happened to hit juuuuuuust so in his sleep cycle that he started waking up.  We moved the DF forward by 30 minutes and voilà!  No more habitual DF waking. 

Also, if she's not on solids yet, I'd keep the dreamfeed for a while longer until she is; so sometimes between 7-8 months old to drop it.

HTH!

[Asha G]

Thank you both for your replies. The last few nights have been quite good with lo going down at 7/730pm and then taking her dream feed at 10. She has mostly gone back to sleep after the feed but last night she was wide awake again.. My dh tried putting her to sleep for 20 mins as she would cry when he  put her in her cot but then she was calm so we put her down awake and she did eventually go to sleep at about 1130.. Although she was awake and playing very loudly this morning from about 6am..!!!
We started weaning this weekend .. She hasn't taken much so far.. Started on puréed carrots and then sweet potato.. So once she has started taking more then I do want to wean off the dream feed..
I'm going to try gradually decreasing the amount and adding to the day feeds as Tracy says but I'm a bit confused ..
Im both breast feeding and formula feeding so 7 ounces in the morning, bf at 12pm (and now solids 15/20 mins later) , then bf plus 4 ounces top up around 430/5 , bf at 630/7pm and then 7 ounces dream feed
So when Tracy says to Add an ounce to the first feed should I be giving her 8 ounces In The morn? Then on day 4 I'm suposed to add another ounce to the 2nd feed But this is currently a bf so how do I add the additional ounces?
I am also thinking of graduLly stopping bf And maybe just keep the bedtime bf.
How much formula should I be giving At each feed if I'm not bf?
Apologies I've realiSed this probably isn't the right board anymore for this query.. Can you let me know where I should post . The bottle feeding board or the breastfeeding board and I will repost..?
Thank you again for all your help... It has made such a difference to how I feel!!! 

[newkidontheblock]

Glad to hear about the positive changes:) Yes, I do think it would be best to post on the E boards - maybe bottle feeding as you would probably increase the oz in her bottles? I just wanted to mention that it takes a while for them to start taking in solids quantity-wise. In the first year solids are more for fun & exploration, and they still get almost all their calories/nutrition from milk. WRT weaning the DF, what Tracy says is to reduce 1 oz in the DF bottle and increase that 1 oz in one of her day bottles, and so on. I'm posting a link for you to go through about weaning the DF. With me, since I am ebf, I added milk to her solids - so she takes in 2 oz in her morning porridge, has milkshakes and I also cook her food with breast milk - pancakes, bread pudding and so on. We pretty much weaned the DF cold turkey at 8/9 months when it started disturbing her sleep.

[Asha G]

Thank you! I can't see any link however?
I think il keep the dream feed for another week or 2 and then start to wean off as she wil then have been on solids for 3 weeks..
Yes I will make sure she still has enough milk as I know solids shouldn't replace milk feeds for some time ..
I will post on the bottles board too! Thank you again!!

[newkidontheblock]

Oh, sorry! Here you go
"How do I implement/drop the dreamfeed?"