NWs/fading and EWs for 8 month old EBF baby

[Natazha]

DD2 is 8 months old, EBF and has been on EASY since she was 8 weeks old. I taught her to put herself to sleep with a very diligent shush-pat – it took a few weeks but she got it and now puts herself to sleep easily for naps and nighttime. Yay! The problem is NWs and EWs. We have struggled with getting her on 4/4 for months and have only this week started to be able to go longer stretches, but her feed times have not increased (10 mins at most total at each feed). She is the MOST distractible baby and I work very hard at getting her to feed during the day. Because of not being on 4/4, her feed times are such that we’re off EASY and she goes to sleep right after a feed for her afternoon nap.

Also, we’re down to 2 NWs typically and were having a few weeks where she only woke once a night, but then teething and colds happened and now we’re back to 2 NWs. They are not habitual – she definitely is STARVING and takes 20 min feeds then if I let her. But they are a little erratic with the first one anywhere from midnight-2am (usually 1-130) and the second one anywhere from 400-600am (usually 500-530). I’ve been trying to top her up with formula during the day but it doesn’t seem to be making a difference with the NWs and if anything, it’s making her too full to have proper breastfeeds, which is sending my routine all over the place.

I would like to eliminate the NWs but DD2 shares a room with DD1, who is dealing with transitioning to a new class and night terrors…so I’m unwilling to disturb her sleep for the 1-3 weeks it will take to get DD2 sleeping. So I’m not sure what to do about that situation. I have gotten her down to nursing only one side at each NW but cant go less without her crying, and then she starts to wake up 3 times instead of 2! At worst, I will wait 2 weeks when DD1 is more settled/less OT and then work on nights with DD2 depending on your advice.

I would love it if someone could take a look at our EASY and let me know what I need to tweak. I’m so confused! Is she OT, is she UT? Is her last A time too long, but how do I tweak it and still manage her on 2 naps? Help!

530am-640am WU (I would love her to get up at 7am!) and E
800am Solids (banana/rice cereal)
900am S (typically 1hr to 1hr 15mins)
1015 A
1030 E
1040 A
1200 Solids (veggies/meat/fruit)
120 E (OOPS!)
130 S (typically 1hr 15mins to 1hr 30mins)
245/300 A
300 E
310 A
445 Solds (cereal/veggies/meat)
600 BT routine – bath, massage, E, lullaby
645 BT
1200-200 NW and E
400-600 NW and E
 

[newkidontheblock]

Hi there:)

Can I ask, why do you think she can't go longer between feeds? I used to think the same with my DD and I had 10 feeds in a day. Lol. I was so sure that she wouldn't make it otherwise & that my supply would be affected. What I found though, was that  when they eat so often, they are just 'snacking' - eating just enough to take the edge off but not a full feed. Spacing out feeds helps to make them take full feeds instead. And of course, you have solids in play too at this point, so I really don't think hunger would be an issue. I understand completely what you mean about the distractibility - is it possible for you to nurse her in a dim, quiet room? That is the only way I can get mine to nurse well. Otherwise they don't take enough during the day and wake up at night to take in the missed calories.

May I suggest - instead of sticking to a fixed time of 4/4 - feed on WU in the morning & from naps. I also feed twice in the second A time to leave a good gap to the bedtime feed. Worth a try? You can also add expressed milk into her solids.

What A are you doing at the moment? I can't quite tell. If you feel the gap to bed is too long, put her to bed a bit earlier:)

[Natazha]

Hi newkidontheblock

Thanks for your reply! Since I posted, I've been trying to extend DD2's feeds to 4 hours and she's been doing it happily (and even doing longer, i.e. refusing a feed!) so I obviously was raising a snacker! So that problem is solved. But even with spacing it out 4 hours, she's not eating more/longer - she's still nursing for 10 mins total. I nurse her in a quiet, dark room with her sound machine still on. Typically I nurse in the morning on wakeup, immediately after she wakes up from her first nap (around 1000-1030), immediately before her second nap (130) and after her second nap (around 300 because invariably she's asking for it and didn't nurse long enough before) and then right before bed (630). I know I need to consolidate that nursing before and after her second nap, but I feel like if I don't feed her before she goes down, it'll be 5 hours between feeds - isn't that a lot at this age?

She's eating solids like a champ and recently I have been trying to mix expressed milk or formula into the solids, but it's maybe 2oz. Is it possible that I'm feeding her too much solids?

When you say you feed twice in the second A time, you mean the time between the morning and afternoon nap? I'm going to try what you suggested and feed her on WU, after each nap and BT. Do you think that's enough?

Her A time has just started stretching out and once it started, it stretched quickly! We are now doing 2.5-3 hours between WU and 1st nap, 3-3.5 hours between 1st and 2nd naps and 3.75 hrs between 2nd nap at BT. I read somewhere that the first A time should be shorter and get progressively longer as the day goes on, but that sounds counterintuitive to me now that I've typed out our A times. I'm wondering if I tinker with it and get her to do 3 hrs between each if that would work? So something like:

700 WU
1000-1115 S (she always does 1.25hrs)
215-330 S
630 BT

My real issue right now is those EWs too. She's been getting up at 540 the last few mornings after 3x or more a night and asking for a full feed and then wanting to stay up. She's in great spirits and wants to play, so to keep her from waking up DD1, I get her and take her downstairs with me. That means that she's up from 540 to 900 until she goes down for her first nap (with me stretching her to that time) and can't even make it to 930, which used to be her nap time. It's messing with the feeds and messing with her sleep I'm sure, causing more NWs. I know it's a vicious cycle, I just don't know how to stop it.

Are you nursing at night? Or have you night weaned? If you night weaned, did you do PU/PD or fading or something else? I feel like I have no skills at putting her back to sleep at night without nursing and I know I just have to bite the bullet and commit and do something. I tried fading but I think I may have gone too quickly and now that we're down to nursing just one side for each NW, she's just waking up more times! Argh!