It's all gone to hell in a handcart

[newkidontheblock]

Thanks, Katherine. Yes, tomorrow is a new day.

Martha, you said never started the day before 7. What is he woke at 5 and didn't settle? Or did that never happen? Our routine before this was similar to what you have posted and has only stopped working because she is taking an hour to sleep and is getting horribly OT. But I am going back to long am-short pm. This is much too scary

[Martini~]

Frankly speaking it probably was happening but I just acted as it didn't. I mean I am never checking if he is asleep or not in the morning. I often here him from 5 till 7 am but I do nothing if this is only a squick. Or I do as little as possible. He is/was usually awake before 7 but in a darkened room so probably thinking it's night time.

I also wake my baby in the morning. You know? I ALWAYS come at 7am no matter if he moans or sleep or lies quietly. I think that even if he is 14mo he gets the idea and knows that it's not the time for WU and that mummy will come when the time comes. So he usually doesnt cry on WU....

[katie80]

(((Hugs))), Fleur... take some deep breaths. I can't tell you how many times Charlie has had 2x30min nap days (waaaay too many ). Sometimes he crashed and did a pretty good night afterward, so here's hoping! Sorry you're unwell. Head to bed as early as you can and try to get some rest.

[newkidontheblock]

Thanks Katie Hope you have a good night too:) And day.. I have no idea what time it is for you now.

Martha, I used to do exactly the same thing. WU at 7 sharp..leave in bed chatting even if she woke earlier and down for the night 7 sharp. This isn't just squeaks or cries though. It's full blown awake screaming at around 5:( The routine you wrote, it was the daycare one right + CN on the way home? So good that he handles a decent A after the CN.

How do I overcome this BT resistance? No idea where it has come from and with such vehemence!

[katie80]

Two thoughts... it's developmental/OT, which means it will resolve with consistency and patience... or, she's come through the WW needing more A time after the pm CN and she's UT resisting leading to OT. What do you think?

[newkidontheblock]

it's developmental/OT, which means it will resolve with consistency and patience

This was my first thought. Also in the early wakings post they mention developmental changes as well as an early sleep phase being common causes.

she's come through the WW needing more A time after the pm CN and she's UT resisting leading to OT.

Her A times are up. I'm getting CN resistance even in the sling and she is consistently falling asleep closer to 4.30. She then wakes up in 30 minutes on the dot. I tried 2 hours the other day and it was a pretty bad night.

I have another thought. Please bear with me as it isn't a very nice one. I've been re reading my baby whisperer book and Tracy has one case study where she talks about manipulation. Ugh, such an awful word. And we're just out of the world of sequences WW. Could it be just her thinking if I yell this way and for this long, mum and dad will come running? Tracy spefically talks about early morning wakings here. Because I can't explain it otherwise - if she sleeps at 7, she's up at 5. If she sleeps at 6, she's up at 5.30. It's nonsensical. Today she woke up at 5.30, so 11.5 hour night but not good enough because she normally would have slept till 7 for sure. The thing is, I'm not sure how to tackle this if so. 1 hour BT resistance is mental, especially with us helping her every step of the way.

I have a few questions, please.
1. Any ideas for how to stop her standing? She's in a sleep sack which was supposed to prevent her from doing this but isn't doing the trick. I do think that this is problem #1.

2. Doesn't this seem more like a habitual waking? If so, have any of you'll tried Wake to sleep? A bit scared to try but out of options.

3. What if I try to get back to a 7-7 day? How would I even go about it? PM nap is so uncertain unless I APOP it and she can't do a long A to bed after that. How would I manage it?

[jessmum46]

Hun she's not manipulating you, she doesn't have the cognitive capacity to do that if she's yelling, she needs you for *some* reason.  You are probably still battling through OT but with a hefty dose of 2-1 silliness right now.  If her nights are shortening that is also another sign of nap transition. 

You can't stop her standing.  If it's developmental you have to ride it out, both mine have stood just fine in sleep sacks and can even walk in them to an extent.  I think they stop climbing for a while but that's about it.

I've never tried wake to sleep but have a feeling Katie may have done....I'll let her chime in on that one.  But it won't work if she is just done sleeping yk?  After an 11.5h night I'd be doubtful, but you could always try it.

Getting back to 7-7 is tricky and will probably take time.  We often advise in this situation to try to get the routine stable with the WU you've got, and then shift in increments as for DST.  I wonder if that may not work though during transition.  Would you consider setting your first nap time at least?  So base it on what A you think she can manage and a typical WU for now, say 4.5h A or 10am (based on 5.30am WU).  PD at whichever is the later time.  Then you can push it forward in 15 minute increments.  Wdyt?

[newkidontheblock]

The word 'manipulation' has a negative connotation but I meant it more as its base meaning - learning to control something. As Tracy puts it, I think this situation shows how insidious APing can be - one bad habit leads to another. We replaced the holding prop for a bum patting one. But yes, I think I'm giving her too much credit.

I know 11.5 seems like enough sleep but not in Eris's case, yk? I've been looking through our logs of recent weeks and any NW would lead to a super later WU. She always made it up:( I guess different babies handle it differently. We have always been poor nappers but great night sleepers:) I'll try setting the first nap as you've suggested. Thanks

[jessmum46]

Hugs, I know how frustrating it is. What I've noticed with mine is that there just seem to be phases where whatever you do, however hard you try and however much opportunity you give, they just don't seem to be getting the rest they need.  You will probably find as with previous WWs etc that she will suddenly snap out of it, but until then it may be a case of gritting your teeth and getting through it.  If it makes you feel any better B was up at 5.30ish after a rubbish night and has fallen asleep in the car at 9.20am it will have to be a short am day here, not looking forward to it!!!

[newkidontheblock]

Hugs right back at you. Early wakings are the worst. You'll are on a 7-7 routine now, right? With B though, you can see why sleep is disturbed - teething, so many milestones. Here, zilch:p Anyway, I am going to just do whatever I can and cross my fingers & toes

psst : Just got a 10 minute CN. Hurrah!:p

[jessmum46]

Oh yuck, had one of those the other day here too. Currently fighting him for a pm nap

[newkidontheblock]

Did it work? I thought things would get smoother as we neared the big 1

[jessmum46]

Hmm 35 min am nap (I woke) then second nap 5h10 later in car so no, not really!!

[jessmum46]

How are you getting on Fleur?

[newkidontheblock]

So-so. Just putting one foot on front of the other and getting through the day: ) and you? Thanks for checking up on us