how to arrange the naps if DS is LSN to avoid NW?

[katie80]

(((Hugs))), I'm sorry I'm having a hard time consistently getting on to help!

I think you have a couple viable options...
1)

How about letting him sleep as long as he likes for the first nap for the next few days so he can catch up on lost sleep? 

I think I suggested this above. Have you ever tried to do just a standard routine with him? It looks to me from you EASYs above that his ideal A time is likely around 3-3.5hr. What about putting him down around then and letting him sleep and then doing the same for the second nap, waking him up to keep a 12-13hr day (whatever is your preference)?

Or...
2)

I found after a full nap , 40min, he can wake 3hr, but 3omin or less, maybe 2.5hr ,maybe because his night sleep not good?

Then maybe we need to alter the original plan and do something like this...
WU 6am
Nap 1 9-9:40am
Nap 2 12:40-2:40pm
BT 6:30/7pm

What do you think?

[gejun]

Yes, English is second Language, I prefer Chinese, so it’s difficult for find a translater maybe.
I found his total sleep is 13~13hr15min, I record several days for his sleep, now it is possible 13hrs. only three days without NW, one these three days, his day nap is around 2hrs, no matter how I tried, I cann’t get a 2hrs second nap, except he wake very early time, before 5:00, but which always Nw or EW on the following day, it seems like the long nap compensates the sleep at night.
If I allow him a longer morning nap, always a short second nap, then he will very tired , cann’t wait for the BT.
So, it looks like his total sleep is 13hr, if I expect 11hrs night, only 2hrs left for day, it’s too hard to arrange 2hrs for two naps, so I think standard routine maybe doesn’t work. I tried stand routine when he was 6 month, but failed.

I tried to 20mins nap morning, and 1h 30min noon nap(he wake naturaly), then a short nap 18mins around 16:45, I got a 6:00 naturally wake without NW, but I cann’t get a same night even the day nap same.
When he did three catnap for one day, each 30mins , I have great night, now his nap became longer, and imbalance appears.

I did the routine Martii suggested for one week, but improved little, his noon nap always broken, he always wake at 45min or 1h15min, then sleep again, just resettled himself. If I didn’t wake him, his noon nap will more than 2hr 10min, but broken. I don’t know why he awake, like a sleep in? to compensate his NW? if his total sleep is very low, then maybe only 1hr 30mins for noon nap is reasonable?

[gejun]

He is happy and full of energy during whole day, he doesn’t cry during Nw, just chat and yawns, try to sleep but sometimes took long time. I needn’t resettle him.

[creations]

Hi there.
What did you think of Katie80s suggestions above?  There were two options. Do you feel you would like to try one of those?

Meanwhile I am looking for a translator to help out. We did used to have a member of the community offer to help with chinese but that was a few years back so I am looking for current members who have time available. Hopefully we can find someone.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Just popping in with hugs and support. My son was very similar to yours at 8 months. He IS low sleep needs, but I was still figuring it out at 8 months, for sure.

I'll let you look at Katie80's suggestions above so as not to confuse things by offering more advice. We were doing something very similar to the second option she suggested at 8 months if that helps. In fact, we had our first one nap day at that age, but jack really is very LSN, so I wouldn't suggest trying that right now! Anyway, just wanted to let you know I've totally been there, I know it's horrible, and I also know that it does get better  (I promise!) X

[katie80]

I think if I'm understanding correctly, you are trying the second routine I posted above, but aren't able to consistently get a 2hr second nap. Is that right? Can you post some of your EASYs for us to look at, so we can get a feel for what's happening in addition to your description?

[koe2moe]

Hello.  Hi Gejun, 你好。  如果你想打中文的話，我可以替你翻譯。

Katie, I think Gejun did mean that it was too hard to get 2 hours second nap. 

Gejun, please note that these are sample routines, you don't have to follow it.  It depends on you and your child.  I personally think that the focus is better on the total awake time.  I discovered that when DS was 3.  What I would like to suggest is if you are getting 13 hours of sleep in one day, and only 11 at night, what you can do is to slowly shift the nap time by 10-15 mins to find the best time to extend the naps (day time sleep) to 30 mins more and hopefully that way the total awake time will also increase 30 mins more and you will fill that one hour gap.  (I type this in English so that the others can read and comment.)

Gejun, 我想我看得懂你貼的，如果我理解錯了，請你告訴我。他們給你的時間表只可以作為參考。我的提議是午睡增長三十分。這樣醒的時間應該也延長一點。（我忘了问你看得懂繁体还是简体字？请你告诉我吧。）定时午睡应该是大一点的宝宝比较好。八个月可能还小吧。你是不是跟从A时间来决定什么时候午睡呢？

Hope I can help.  Koe

[katie80]

Wow, Koe... thanks so much for hopping on! We appreciate your willingness to help!

[koe2moe]

Goodness me, Katie.  I thought that's what we are all here for, helping each other! 

[katie80]

Yes, of course. Translation is just extra appreciated!

[gejun]

有你在太好了，我看的懂繁体的，关于睡眠的问题我可能英文不是很好，
是的，我的问题是从来得不到两个小时的nap,即使有，中途总是会醒，哭两声或过几分钟又睡着了。
另外，
我目前的问题是我怀疑我在做一个routine时没有保持一致性。
所以我想先澄清一些概念如下：用他们的routine 做例子
WU 6am
Nap 1 9-9:40am
Nap 2 12:40-2:40pm
BT 6:30/7pm

1、   Wu 时间，6点的话，如果他早于6点醒，就让他自己在小床玩，如果6点还在睡（可能由于长时间的夜醒），就叫醒他。
2、   Nap1: 9点把他放到小床上，虽然他是个independent sleeper, 但是对于一个新的routine, 我想可能开始一周或更长，他需要时间才能入睡吧，也许5分钟，10分钟，我是9点放呢还是8点50放？如果他在9:10才睡着，我是9:40叫醒他呢还是9:30叫醒，如果是9:40，我时不时需要藏在房间里才能确定他睡着的时间。如果是9:30，我只需要在nap结束的时间进房间叫醒他就行了。
你们的宝宝是不是一开始适应一个routine时入睡也慢？后来可以一分钟内睡着吗？
否则你怎么确定他什么时间睡着和什么时间近房间叫醒？

3、   Nap2, 如果他再睡了一小时二十分钟后醒了很高兴，时不时就没有再睡着的可能性了，以后也不太可能睡到两个小时？如果中途醒了哭，时不时还有可能再继续睡，以后几天可能越睡越长？如果在开始的几天只睡了一个多小时，那他在18:00左右可能就困了，需要提前上床时间吗？或是安排一个catnap 在17:00左右，但是这很困难。

目前我正在减少上午的nap时间到20mins, 但是午睡时还是中途会醒，醒了能再睡回去，
我的宝宝的睡眠需求好像从小就少，现在估计也就１３个小时～１３个半之间吧。

[gejun]

Koezmoe, 有你在太好了，我们能通电话吗或微信语音吗？
打字好慢，我急需帮助，已经快要精疲力尽了，沟通一些基本问题。

Thanks for everybody, especially to Katie80,thanks for your suggestion.
Now I need you clarify some basic concept when start a new routine, to check if I did something wrong, especially without consistence
I use option 2 you suggestion for example:
WU 6am
Nap 1 9-9:40am
Nap 2 12:40-2:40pm
BT 6:30/7pm

1、   WU:6;00 ，if he wake 5:40,just leave him in cot to play till 6:00, if he is still in sleep at 6:00（for prolonged NW）, wake him up. Right?
2/ Nap1: should I put him down at 9:00 everyday or 8:50, leave several mins for him to settle? If he take 10mins to settle, when should I wake him up? 9:50 after a 30 mins nap, or 9:40 when the schedule time closed? Is your Lo always fall in sleep very quickly? Should Lo settle quickly after the few days if the A is reasonable? How do you do it at the first few days, hiding in his room to see when he falling in sleep or just make a alarm clock to wake him?
3/ for nap 2, put down him at 12:40, but he slept only 1hr20mins, wake naturally and happy, is there possible he can sleep longer in future days? Since he was satisfied with the length of sleep.
If he wake and cried during the nap, but could resettled himself and need wake him up at 2:40, does it mean he maybe can sleep longer in future days?
If he satisfied with 1hr20mins, he will tired around 17:40 maybe, how to deal with it? If offer another CN, Obviously he will fight the BT, but if not, he will very tired around 18:00 maybe.

I used to be a similar routine with it, nap1 at 9:00, nap2 around 12:30, but if the nap1 is 45mins, the nap 2 always be 1hr15min, if cap it to 30mins, nap2 will be 1:25, total 2hrs for two nap.
I will post some records, maybe not useful because of inconsistence.
But maybe the WU is different everyday.
So I think maybe I need three naps before 9months since he is LSN, two naps maybe cann’t balance his sleep.
So recent ten days, my routine is 8:45 nap for 20mins, 12:00 nap aim for 2hr 10min, 20mins afternoon nap between 16:15~17:00,
But I cann’t get 2hrs nap, he always wake during nap, then after several mins, he slept again,
only one day I got 2hrs,and he tried around 18:30, then BT19:00 without NW, 6:00 naturally wake.
For this routine, I am not sure wu 6:00 or 6:30 too, the book state could be anytime between 6:00~6:30.

Following are some records for the routine similar with you suggested:(x)
3.20
Wake at 6:20(without NW)
Nap1Put down at 8:45
Nap from 8:58~9:43 wake him
Nap2:put down at 12:25
Nap from 12:30~13:54  wake with a cry
BT:19:00, Settle quickly for he really tired,
3.21
Wake at 6:00(without NW)
Nap 1 put down 8:45
Nap from 8:55~9.41 wake him
Nap 2
Put down 12:15
Nap from 122~13:50
I lost records for 3.22.
3.23
Wake him at 7:00, many NW at night
Nap1
Put down at 8:55
Nap from 9:14~9.57
Nap2 put down at 12:25
Nap from 12.25~13.20
I have to offer another nap
From 16:40~16:57

3.24
6:20 wake but quickly sleep again then wake him at 7:00(two NW)
Nap1:put down at 8:55. 9:15~9:45
Nap2: put down at 12:28
Nap from 12:31 to 13:06
Wake at 13:06 but fall sleep at 13:21,then wake at 14:11
BT:19:00
3.25:
WAKE naturally at 6:20, without NW
NAP1
Put down at 8:25
Nap from 8:32~9:18(wake him ,we have to out)
Nap 2
Put down at 12:20
Nap from 12:25~14:25
3.26
Wake Naturally at 5:30(two NW, 1:00, 4:00)

[gejun]

我刚才发的生活记录，可能英语表达不准去，我的put down,就是把他放床上的时间，我每次放他睡的时间不是很严格，因为担心他需要几分钟才能在我希望的时间睡着。我在上午通常让他睡30~45分钟，但从未得到过连续两小时的午睡，偶尔有一次，我也不记得午睡中间有没有醒过了，当天晚上就夜醒频繁了。
当时我还不知道要固定起床时间，我以为他是个平均水平的孩子，所以以为可以睡到7点，后来发现他的总睡眠量低于平均水平，是不可能从晚上7点睡到早上7点的。我的电话是13501070204，北京时间19:15以后通常都可以联系，如果你方便的话。

[gejun]

另外，Marti85给我的routine 建议目前我还在用，已经一个多星期了，进展不大，这个routine来自一本澳大利亚人的书，建议LSN上午和傍晚各20分钟,这样中午睡长一些，2小时吧，你可以看看前面她的留言。但这本书上关于wu的时间是6：00~6:30， 以保证可以在上午的时间moring nap, 我不理解是不是还是要固定在6点或是6点半还是只要在6点和6点半之间都可以，不用保持一致，还提到9个月的宝宝下午的20分钟视情况取消，我的宝宝现在8.5个月了，不知道这个该怎么处理，如果你没看到过这个书，可以联系Marti85再详细说明一下吗？因为这个routine我刚坚持了一周多，所以还是想再坚持一周看看情况再做改变。

[gejun]

could Marti85 clarify the WU time for the LSN routine since I have did it over one week, I read the book but cann't get it about the wu time. and I want to do it one more week to assess it.
I just find it if wake naturally at 6:20, LO will refuse the afternnon 20mins nap in pram, but if wake at 6:00, he always take it.
and always his noon nap always broken nap, wake one or two times during the noon nap.

following is the routine
WU: 6:00 or 6:30?  I think Lo total sleep is 13hr~13hr 20mins
nap1: 8:45, 20min max
nap2: 12:00   aim for 2hr10min
nap3:  16:15~16:45   drop between 9month~10month
BT:19:00
这是我现在执行的routine, 首先请帮我回答怎么执行一个routine的基本常识，另外，请让她帮我解释一下是不是要根据睡眠需求总量确定wu 时间，因为好像对下面的 nap 有影响。抱歉发了这么多，现在脑子很乱，因为睡眠问题我已经很累很累了，我是从一个月前才发现他可能是一个较少的孩子,所以之前按照正常程序怎么都不对，他的每一天都过的不一样。平均睡眠水平的孩子一天两觉就可以了，他好像怎么也达不到，总在晚上睡觉前就困了。还有，他学会自己入睡前一天睡三个catnap,晚上就睡得很好。其他人告诉我这就是睡眠需求少的孩子的特征。