Author Topic: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?  (Read 2848 times)

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Offline katie80

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In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« on: April 24, 2015, 19:48:41 pm »
One month ago, I dropped the last two NFs we had. The first week went pretty normally, ups and downs but some decent resettles. However, C started cutting molars and became increasingly difficult to settle in the early morning and now we're stuck with EWs.

I've had the advice already to set the nap and BT and I'm trying to stick to that as much as I can. I think some nights he struggles to settle at BT because he's OT. I've also made sure he's not falling asleep nursing before bed, as that was his MO when really tired after changing to one nap, so I think that is playing a small part in the settling at bedtime too.

I guess what I'm wondering is if I should just plod along and hope that at some point the WU comes later or if there is something else I can do. He is on the LSN side, but I don't really know how much. I feel like he's not getting quite what he needs right now, as he pretty much always looks tired and is fussy (although I do know the teething is factoring into that).

Here is my log for the last week...
Fri 4/17
WU 7am (resettled at 5 after late BT and getting sick in MOTN)
Nap 12:30-2:15pm
BT 7:15pm (tried for 7, took a bit to settle)


Sat 4/18
WU 5:15am (couldn't resettle)
Nap 11:50-1:20 (in car; meant for 11:30, but late)
BT 6:30pm (thought I should've done 6, but trying to keep it later)
2 NW

Sun 4/19
WU 5:05am (couldn't resettle)
Nap 11-11:30am (in car)
Nap 3:15-4pm
BT 7:20pm (tried for 7, took a bit to settle)

Mon 4/20
WU 5:20am
Nap 11:30-1:40 (woken by slamming door)
BT 6:55pm
1 NW

Tues 4/21
WU 5:25am (less screaming, did lie down and try to settle a few times)
Nap 11:30-1pm (in car)
BT 6:30
NW (2:40-4am)

Wed 4/22
WU 6:30am
Nap 12-1:20
BT 6:30
NW (1:30-3am)

Thur 4/23
WU 6:30
Nap 12-1:40
BT 7pm (aimed for 6:30, but got super upset when we had to set book down and struggles to settle)

Fri 4/24
WU 5:30
Nap 11:30-1:20
BT (will shoot for 6:30)




Offline Domestic Engineer

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2015, 20:30:40 pm »
What do you do when he wakes up early in the morning? How long do you try resettling before you start the day? Will he play quietly in bed at all, or does he need you right away when he wakes up?

Offline Martini~

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2015, 22:12:07 pm »
Katie only idea I would have, push morning nap till 12:30 and aim for 6:30 BT. WDYT?
~Marta

Offline katie80

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2015, 00:22:33 am »
What do you do when he wakes up early in the morning? How long do you try resettling before you start the day? Will he play quietly in bed at all, or does he need you right away when he wakes up?
I lay on his floor and encourage him to lie down and go to sleep. I do the same at NWs, and if his teeth aren't bothering him he goes back to sleep in minutes. There have been a couple mornings that he's laid down and tried, but mostly he ends up getting mad and standing up and screaming. I try resettling until about 6am (started by waiting til 6:30, but after three weeks I can't take that much screaming anymore :P). He is upset pretty much upon wake-up.

Katie only idea I would have, push morning nap till 12:30 and aim for 6:30 BT. WDYT?
I think it's worth a try... I'm a little afraid of an OT, 30min nap, but I should be able to resettle. Maybe I'll try 12pm for a few days and then 12:30?

Thank you! :-*



Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2015, 01:19:41 am »
I was just going to come post this! Lol. Our kids are always in cahoots aren't they? C has been doing the 5am game for weeks now. SO old!

I've recently moved nap back to 1130 and she is sleeping 2.5-3h for nap. Unfortunatley that hasn't helped our EW issue. I am doing the same as you, well DH is, but she just cries and fusses. :/
*Kate*



Offline newkidontheblock

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2015, 05:26:11 am »
Not much help from me as I'm clueless about that age but here to offer {hugs} and support. We really need to have a MOTN pity party club. As I was settling E at 5 this morning, I had this image in my mind of all of you other BW mums doing the same somewhere around the world. Hang in there, hun. Let's hope we all get some sleep soon






Offline Martini~

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2015, 06:02:22 am »
Yes go for 12 for couple of days, and than 12:30. I think it's Kellys here who will tell you that her early waking didn't stop until morning A was 6h...? And afternoon was 4h I guess. I may PM her if you would like some more btdt:).
~Marta

Offline katie80

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2015, 19:41:16 pm »
I was just going to come post this! Lol. Our kids are always in cahoots aren't they? C has been doing the 5am game for weeks now. SO old!
Silly babies!! :P Can't quite remember how old your C is, but could it be 18mo regression for you?! My G is HSN, but I think I was capping at 2-2.5hr around 18/20mo. :-\ (((Hugs))), 5am is no fun!

Marta - What are you aiming for in sleep totals now? Got lucky this morning with a 6:20ish wake-up (BT ended up post 7pm last night). So, I pushed nap to 12:30 and got 2hr, woohoo!! Wondering if I should aim for 7 or 7:30 BT... what do you think?

He did
WU 6:20am
Nap 12:25-2:25pm
BT ??



Offline Martini~

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2015, 19:56:52 pm »
I think 13...? But I allow 14,5 if needed.

So routine is:
- 7am wakeup but usually is awake before like 6:30-6:45; very rare when OT 6:10 but I am not coming in and he is in his crib talking to himself, dozing or whatever
- Nap at 11:45/12 (cannot be pushed as in the nursery), not capped, usually 1:15 - 1:45, but the most common 1:30; when wonder weeking/after illnes/OT, can do up to 2:30; I am resistant to cap this nap and for now I am not planning to do it as this boy always was sleeping only what he needs at nap time; I also don't plan to push it; DS will be in this group in the nursery up to 18/20mo so nap time will be the same, maybe at home during weekends I will push
- BT 7pm usually settles slowly and calmly for 10-20min

So I guess it's 11,5 night +1,5h nap = 13h, but he has days when he sleeps till 7am after 2:20 nap and being almost dead at BT:).

And this ^^^^ is usual. At this moment we are not usual as for last week DS is waking at night, does EWU and refuses BT but I guess it's illness (he had some eye virus), wonder weekening (this week is stormy...) and teething as he is producing saliva in cups:P.
~Marta

Offline katie80

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2015, 20:46:26 pm »
Ok, thanks... just good to know what you're aiming for. I think he probably needs between 13-13.5, so will just have to see... ::) We also have teeth mucking with things, although not quite as much wetness the last couple days, so maybe a short respite. :-\



Offline Martini~

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2015, 20:48:33 pm »
I am aiming for night sleep without breaks:D:D:D and that's my only goal honey!!!
But you know how it is about goals... you may set them, but it's not so easy with execution!
~Marta

Offline katie80

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2015, 20:52:34 pm »
LOL, I totally get it! :D I'm aiming to wake up after 6am and have at least 1.5hr nap... my goals are not big! :P ;)



Offline creations

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2015, 09:08:51 am »
Just stopping by with a hug and sympathy really - I was there with EWs always trying to get the WU later.

I know you're trying the nap later at 12.30, this sounds absolutely the right thing to do to me. Looking at your logs, it seems a 10.5 to 11hr night is the max you can get, which was just like my DS too.  Even the nights you got 12hrs from BT to WU there looks like a 1.5hr NW so the overall sleep is still no longer, just more tiring for you to have to get up.
I would accept a 10.5hr night and work on positioning the nap in the right part of the day to achieve a WU time you are happy with, if that makes sense. So maybe something like
WU 6.30
nap
BT 8.00
I know it looks like a long day but it looks like your DS isn't going to give you more sleep than that. It gives the option for him to sleep later, until 7am say, and if he did this regularly you might see a regular 11hr night instead (but still a lateish BT at 8pm yk?)
IMO the longer you keep BT early the longer the early WUs continue. I do wish I'd shifted BT later much earlier than I did (hindsight).

I don't remember exactly what time DS's nap was at that age. I'd have to go hunting for records or threads...but I do know when he was older we settled for a long time on a 2-4nap. It seems very late in the day and wouldn't suit everyone, but the point is all LOs are individual aren't they, so just wanted to say really that it can work for some, it's not a bad thing to head toward. our settled routine (slightly older) was:
WU 6.30/7.00
nap 2 - 4
BT 8pm
And we stayed there until he hit the nap drop.


Offline Sarah - Enfys' Mum

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2015, 18:40:10 pm »
Medi went through a phase of ew around 12 months and I'm sure it was because she was napping too early (and too long) so I started keeping her up til 12:30 and it helped.





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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2015, 04:01:32 am »
Thanks, creations and Sarah! I appreciate hearing your experience. Pushing the nap later has definitely helped in terms of it becoming consistently between 1.5-2hr (until today, of course ::)). I'm cautious about pushing BT, as I know he's OT and some nights bedtime ends up later anyway (either because he can't settle of because of some activity for Claire) and he does a shorter night, still waking early. :-\

So, we're working on it. I think the bottom molars are about to cut, as he's still having quite unsettled nights and after the shorter nap today, couldn't keep his hands out of his mouth. :( But, I think (hope) with gradual pushes (must remind myself this isn't going to be an overnight fix!), we'll eventually get there.



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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2015, 20:02:33 pm »
Good to hear the later nap has helped :)


Offline katie80

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2015, 17:08:21 pm »
Wondering if I could bother you ladies to take a look at our most recent week. Nap seems to be going well, but BT is a mess and we're still getting short nights (with the exception of one). My gut says he still needs 13-13.5hr sleep overall, and after the night he slept 11.5hr (Tues) he woke up chatty (for a few minutes), which hasn't happened in ages. It really felt right, but I acknowledge it maybe was a catchup from the terribly short night on Mon.

I'm not sure why he takes so long to settle at BT. A few things I think are that the day is a bit long still and he kind of hits a second wind, he's almost always fed to sleep at BT except for the last few weeks and that seemed to help him calm down (no longer getting a BT feed at all :'(), and he's spirited so seems to have trouble winding down when everyone is home and then ends up getting more and more upset, really struggling to settle. I think I'll start another thread on a better wind down for a spirited toddler.

So, here is my log for the last week.
Sat 5/2
WU 5:30
Nap 11:30-1
BT 7 (meant for 6:30, but friends over)

Sun 5/3
WU 5:09
Nap 10:50-11:30 (in car before lunch and dance recital)
Nap 4:15-4:45 (after dance recital)
BT 7:30?

Mon 5/4
WU 5:35
Nap 11:45-1:45
BT 8pm !?! (tried for 6:30, couldn't settle, ended up hysterical)

Tues 5/5
WU 5:38
Nap 11:45-1:45
BT 6:15/20

Wed 5/6
WU 5:45
Nap 12:10-1:55
BT 7:30 (tried for 6:30, couldn't settle?!?)

Thur 5/7
WU 5:30
Nap 11:55-2pm (I woke for a music program for Claire)
BT 7:10 (tried for 6:30, couldn't settle)

Fri 5/8
WU 5:30
Nap 11:55-?? (Sleeping now)

Any thoughts?



Offline katie80

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2015, 19:24:07 pm »
Maybe I'm looking at this wrong... is he UT at BT, not settling and then having an OT night?! When should I be trying BT?

Today he napped longer...
WU 5:30
Nap 11:55-2:15

When should I do BT? 6:30? 7? I feel like we're so close, just need to figure out what's right for him in the afternoon.

ETA: Tried for 7, as figured 6:30 wouldn't get me anywhere. Left the room at 6:48, he was quiet by 6:53 (much improved!), but didn't fall asleep til 7:15/20. The day is almost 14hrs long, that can't be good. :-\ Thoughts?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 03:27:15 am by katie80 »



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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2015, 07:42:50 am »
It looks like the nap closer to 12 hasn't helped with the EW at all doesn't it?
I think I'd probably accept the 10 hr night at this point and look to moving the whole routine on so that nap and BT come later to encourage WU to come later too.

Have you tried shifting the whole routine?  How have things gone when the clocks changed and you needed to shift an hour?


Offline Love, laughter, & PJs

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2015, 09:37:16 am »
Katie!! Our kids are in cahoots again. C is basically on the exact same EASY. I'm desperate for a later WU and can't sort it out. Hugs and I'm following!
*Kate*



Offline Martini~

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2015, 10:37:12 am »
And what do you think about a very short A till BT with long morning one?
And nap capped if needed at 2h? His best settling and latest WU is here, isn't it:
Tues 5/5
WU 5:38
Nap 11:45-1:45
BT 6:15/20
Wed 5/6
WU 5:45

So you could go for nap even later so closer to 1pm, but to compensate long A, go for short A in the afternoon, so let's say for today's routine:
5:30 WU
Nap at 12:30 for 2h
short A of 4h till BT
BT 6:30
and than hopefully
6am WU
Nap at 1pm 2h
4h of A till BT
7pm BT?
~Marta

Offline katie80

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2015, 14:43:10 pm »
Thanks for your replies, I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get back here. I was out all day Sat making freezer meals with friends and celebrated a rainy Mother's Day yesterday by playing games and watching a movie with my kids. :)

This is just such a mess, my brain hurts from trying to figure it out. :( I have to think that he's now making up for the short nights by lengthening the nap, but then the short nights continue. DH thinks I should just let him sleep during the day, because he wakes early regardless of a 1.5-2hr nap or a 2-2.5hr nap, which seems to make sense. But, he's never really been a long napper, so I don't think I can expect the nights to get longer if I keep letting him nap long, right?! :-\

Marta, what you've suggested sounds ideal, really. I will try it. There's a small part of me that worries since he's only done that long night once it was just a catch-up or something and it's not really feasible long-term. But, he did settle well and sleep well, so I want to think that was right.

It looks like the nap closer to 12 hasn't helped with the EW at all doesn't it?
No, and I'm not sure why. ???

Have you tried shifting the whole routine?  How have things gone when the clocks changed and you needed to shift an hour?
Well, I thought I was working at shifting the whole routine by starting with the nap. Is that wrong?! When the clocks changed last fall and we needed to shift an hour, I was still nursing and he was on two naps, so I think I just APd him there. :P

The last three days are kind of a disaster. I was going with what DH suggested, but this morning he was up at 4:10 and I couldn't get him to resettle. I think it was teeth this morning, as he cried out at 3ish as well, but even after meds and trying to AP him back he ended up just getting mad, so then I wonder if he's slept too much during the day.

Fri 5/8
WU 5:30
Nap 11:55-2:15
BT 7:30 (tried for 7)

Sat 5/9
WU 5:05
Nap 11:45-2:40 (I was not here and DH had our neighbor come over, so he could run errands with the other two... didn't expect him to sleep that long, but he's obviously making up for lost night sleep)
BT 7:30 (tried for 7)

Sun 5/10
WU 6
Nap 11:50-2:20
BT ~7 (not totally sure as was in with Claire, but he was quiet at 6:55 and asleep at 7:15 when I checked the monitor)

Mon 5/11
WU 4:10
Nap 8:50-9:05 (in car)
Nap will attempt 12-2 and BT at 6:30 ???

He looks tired all the time, was rubbing his eyes at dinner last night aroun 5:30/45 (after a 2.5hr nap), but then I don't know if it's from the consistently short nights or just because he's teething/always on the go.



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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2015, 15:32:24 pm »
Quote from: creations on May 09, 2015, 08:42:50 AM

    Have you tried shifting the whole routine?  How have things gone when the clocks changed and you needed to shift an hour?

Well, I thought I was working at shifting the whole routine by starting with the nap. Is that wrong?!
No, not wrong only that to shift the whole routine you'd need to push Bt later and force Wu to be later too.
The reason I asked about the last clock shift was to see if he can or can't shift his WU time when BT shifts in increments of say 15 mins which is how most people do the hour shift.  There are some LOs who do not shift WU this way though and need a much harder push to move WU (and 15 min increments of later BT only cause 15 mins, then 30 mins, then 45 mins, loss of sleep each night leading to OT).  I've been through this with mine so just seeing if it was something that you might need support on that's all (ie the EW rut as that's what I had too).  Maybe after you've tried Marti's routine if WU doesn't move later?

I also agree that moving nap later, to 1pm, could help although may not increase the night length but the day may be balanced out more.


Offline katie80

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2015, 16:00:43 pm »
I've been through this with mine so just seeing if it was something that you might need support on that's all (ie the EW rut as that's what I had too).  Maybe after you've tried Marti's routine if WU doesn't move later?
Thank you. :-* I honestly don't know what I need support on! :-[ If I could get a set BT, it would obviously then help to be able to shift it later.

Thanks for bearing with me, ladies... I feel and am sure I sound a bit stupid.  I'm having a really hard time seeing what's in front of me and would really like to see some consistency as I often wake around 5am now, just waiting to see what will happen. ::)



Offline Martini~

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2015, 16:23:00 pm »
Katie, how you can said that you are stupid Hon! Please don't!
You already get rid of NWs so a great success and only this ew are to be tackled! You will get there Hon:)!

Picture just to make it more funny that it really is:)
~Marta

Offline katie80

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2015, 18:06:48 pm »
LOL, Marta, I've seen that before and it's true! :P Hopefully, I will recover one day! ;)

I know it's not ultimately the biggest thing in the world, but when the sleep deprivation gets to me I'm near tears because I feel a bit helpless to fix this. And it's ok, I guess, but I'm just not the parent I desire to be when I'm so tired. :(



Offline katie80

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2015, 18:56:53 pm »
I guess I feel mad/stupid/frustrated (at and with myself) that I still don't seem to know what he needs in terms of sleep. I don't know if I'm trying for too much, too little, or just right and he's not really following. I don't feel like I struggled to lead the other two this much and some days my 'inadequate' button really gets pushed. :-[
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 18:59:04 pm by katie80 »



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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2015, 10:21:21 am »
Oh honey - get a screw driver and remove that inadequate button, you don't need it!
It's super hard when you're tired, we know that.

As there are a couple of options here you really need to just pick one and stick with it for a week and stop worrying about if you are doing the right thing or not.  I know there's a bit of a pull between DH saying to let him sleep in the day and you thinking he needs less in the day so he can sleep at night. I really don't think you can be expected to know the answer, which is why just choosing one and running with it would be my advice.

hugs


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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2015, 13:54:55 pm »
Thank you!! :-*



Offline Martini~

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Re: In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2015, 15:35:43 pm »
As always totally agree with a wise Creations:).
~Marta