In an EW rut, is there anything I can do?

[creations]

Good to hear the later nap has helped

[katie80]

Wondering if I could bother you ladies to take a look at our most recent week. Nap seems to be going well, but BT is a mess and we're still getting short nights (with the exception of one). My gut says he still needs 13-13.5hr sleep overall, and after the night he slept 11.5hr (Tues) he woke up chatty (for a few minutes), which hasn't happened in ages. It really felt right, but I acknowledge it maybe was a catchup from the terribly short night on Mon.

I'm not sure why he takes so long to settle at BT. A few things I think are that the day is a bit long still and he kind of hits a second wind, he's almost always fed to sleep at BT except for the last few weeks and that seemed to help him calm down (no longer getting a BT feed at all ), and he's spirited so seems to have trouble winding down when everyone is home and then ends up getting more and more upset, really struggling to settle. I think I'll start another thread on a better wind down for a spirited toddler.

So, here is my log for the last week.
Sat 5/2
WU 5:30
Nap 11:30-1
BT 7 (meant for 6:30, but friends over)

Sun 5/3
WU 5:09
Nap 10:50-11:30 (in car before lunch and dance recital)
Nap 4:15-4:45 (after dance recital)
BT 7:30?

Mon 5/4
WU 5:35
Nap 11:45-1:45
BT 8pm !?! (tried for 6:30, couldn't settle, ended up hysterical)

Tues 5/5
WU 5:38
Nap 11:45-1:45
BT 6:15/20

Wed 5/6
WU 5:45
Nap 12:10-1:55
BT 7:30 (tried for 6:30, couldn't settle?!?)

Thur 5/7
WU 5:30
Nap 11:55-2pm (I woke for a music program for Claire)
BT 7:10 (tried for 6:30, couldn't settle)

Fri 5/8
WU 5:30
Nap 11:55-?? (Sleeping now)

Any thoughts?

[katie80]

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong... is he UT at BT, not settling and then having an OT night?! When should I be trying BT?

Today he napped longer...
WU 5:30
Nap 11:55-2:15

When should I do BT? 6:30? 7? I feel like we're so close, just need to figure out what's right for him in the afternoon.

ETA: Tried for 7, as figured 6:30 wouldn't get me anywhere. Left the room at 6:48, he was quiet by 6:53 (much improved!), but didn't fall asleep til 7:15/20. The day is almost 14hrs long, that can't be good. Thoughts?

[creations]

It looks like the nap closer to 12 hasn't helped with the EW at all doesn't it?
I think I'd probably accept the 10 hr night at this point and look to moving the whole routine on so that nap and BT come later to encourage WU to come later too.

Have you tried shifting the whole routine?  How have things gone when the clocks changed and you needed to shift an hour?

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Katie!! Our kids are in cahoots again. C is basically on the exact same EASY. I'm desperate for a later WU and can't sort it out. Hugs and I'm following!

[Martini~]

And what do you think about a very short A till BT with long morning one?
And nap capped if needed at 2h? His best settling and latest WU is here, isn't it:
Tues 5/5
WU 5:38
Nap 11:45-1:45
BT 6:15/20
Wed 5/6
WU 5:45

So you could go for nap even later so closer to 1pm, but to compensate long A, go for short A in the afternoon, so let's say for today's routine:
5:30 WU
Nap at 12:30 for 2h
short A of 4h till BT
BT 6:30
and than hopefully
6am WU
Nap at 1pm 2h
4h of A till BT
7pm BT?

[katie80]

Thanks for your replies, I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get back here. I was out all day Sat making freezer meals with friends and celebrated a rainy Mother's Day yesterday by playing games and watching a movie with my kids.

This is just such a mess, my brain hurts from trying to figure it out. I have to think that he's now making up for the short nights by lengthening the nap, but then the short nights continue. DH thinks I should just let him sleep during the day, because he wakes early regardless of a 1.5-2hr nap or a 2-2.5hr nap, which seems to make sense. But, he's never really been a long napper, so I don't think I can expect the nights to get longer if I keep letting him nap long, right?!

Marta, what you've suggested sounds ideal, really. I will try it. There's a small part of me that worries since he's only done that long night once it was just a catch-up or something and it's not really feasible long-term. But, he did settle well and sleep well, so I want to think that was right.

It looks like the nap closer to 12 hasn't helped with the EW at all doesn't it?

No, and I'm not sure why.

Have you tried shifting the whole routine?  How have things gone when the clocks changed and you needed to shift an hour?

Well, I thought I was working at shifting the whole routine by starting with the nap. Is that wrong?! When the clocks changed last fall and we needed to shift an hour, I was still nursing and he was on two naps, so I think I just APd him there.

The last three days are kind of a disaster. I was going with what DH suggested, but this morning he was up at 4:10 and I couldn't get him to resettle. I think it was teeth this morning, as he cried out at 3ish as well, but even after meds and trying to AP him back he ended up just getting mad, so then I wonder if he's slept too much during the day.

Fri 5/8
WU 5:30
Nap 11:55-2:15
BT 7:30 (tried for 7)

Sat 5/9
WU 5:05
Nap 11:45-2:40 (I was not here and DH had our neighbor come over, so he could run errands with the other two... didn't expect him to sleep that long, but he's obviously making up for lost night sleep)
BT 7:30 (tried for 7)

Sun 5/10
WU 6
Nap 11:50-2:20
BT ~7 (not totally sure as was in with Claire, but he was quiet at 6:55 and asleep at 7:15 when I checked the monitor)

Mon 5/11
WU 4:10
Nap 8:50-9:05 (in car)
Nap will attempt 12-2 and BT at 6:30

He looks tired all the time, was rubbing his eyes at dinner last night aroun 5:30/45 (after a 2.5hr nap), but then I don't know if it's from the consistently short nights or just because he's teething/always on the go.

[creations]

Quote from: creations on May 09, 2015, 08:42:50 AM

    Have you tried shifting the whole routine?  How have things gone when the clocks changed and you needed to shift an hour?

Well, I thought I was working at shifting the whole routine by starting with the nap. Is that wrong?!

No, not wrong only that to shift the whole routine you'd need to push Bt later and force Wu to be later too.
The reason I asked about the last clock shift was to see if he can or can't shift his WU time when BT shifts in increments of say 15 mins which is how most people do the hour shift.  There are some LOs who do not shift WU this way though and need a much harder push to move WU (and 15 min increments of later BT only cause 15 mins, then 30 mins, then 45 mins, loss of sleep each night leading to OT).  I've been through this with mine so just seeing if it was something that you might need support on that's all (ie the EW rut as that's what I had too).  Maybe after you've tried Marti's routine if WU doesn't move later?

I also agree that moving nap later, to 1pm, could help although may not increase the night length but the day may be balanced out more.

[katie80]

I've been through this with mine so just seeing if it was something that you might need support on that's all (ie the EW rut as that's what I had too).  Maybe after you've tried Marti's routine if WU doesn't move later?

Thank you. I honestly don't know what I need support on! If I could get a set BT, it would obviously then help to be able to shift it later.

Thanks for bearing with me, ladies... I feel and am sure I sound a bit stupid.  I'm having a really hard time seeing what's in front of me and would really like to see some consistency as I often wake around 5am now, just waiting to see what will happen.

[Martini~]

Katie, how you can said that you are stupid Hon! Please don't!
You already get rid of NWs so a great success and only this ew are to be tackled! You will get there Hon:)!

Picture just to make it more funny that it really is:)

[katie80]

LOL, Marta, I've seen that before and it's true! Hopefully, I will recover one day!

I know it's not ultimately the biggest thing in the world, but when the sleep deprivation gets to me I'm near tears because I feel a bit helpless to fix this. And it's ok, I guess, but I'm just not the parent I desire to be when I'm so tired.

[katie80]

I guess I feel mad/stupid/frustrated (at and with myself) that I still don't seem to know what he needs in terms of sleep. I don't know if I'm trying for too much, too little, or just right and he's not really following. I don't feel like I struggled to lead the other two this much and some days my 'inadequate' button really gets pushed.

[creations]

Oh honey - get a screw driver and remove that inadequate button, you don't need it!
It's super hard when you're tired, we know that.

As there are a couple of options here you really need to just pick one and stick with it for a week and stop worrying about if you are doing the right thing or not.  I know there's a bit of a pull between DH saying to let him sleep in the day and you thinking he needs less in the day so he can sleep at night. I really don't think you can be expected to know the answer, which is why just choosing one and running with it would be my advice.

hugs

[katie80]

Thank you!!

[Martini~]

As always totally agree with a wise Creations:).