4 mo: help needed with adjusting WU time & go to sleep routine

[LaraDaisy]

Hi everyone!
I am a FTM to 4 touchy mo baby boy. He has been on EASY since about 2 months old, he is a short napper but recently two new issues appaeared that I need help with.
He is in general healthy little boy, he is growing well. He is touchy, he has reflux and gas (i am on dairy/gluten free diet and elimination diet for months now and it helps but not perfectly), he takes ppi for his reflux. I do combination feeding, introduced formula about 2 weeks ago as a means to get some more sleep during the night, because end of March he also started being a very fussy eater and it is very frustrating to feed him during the day (he eats in 2-3min intervals and then wants to eat after 2hrs and at night suddenly was eating every 2 hrs), during the day he often refuses the breast but takes the bottle with either EBM or formula, so it is also an area for improvement. Like I mentioned he is a short sleeper and only way I can extend his nap is if i manage to grab him just as he starts stirring at 30-40 min mark and keep him in my arms, which is not always working and which i try not to do too much as I feel it is not a healthy way to go, but on average i do it once a day. I tried w2s but he does not stir easily once in deep sleep and several times it seemed to work but he woke up 5 min after my w2s attempt so I do not do it anymore. Swaddling him is also not an option - he is even fighting me if I try to keep his arms from jerking around. So for now I almost made my peace with his short naps, but other issues I would really like to improve.

Here is his yesterday's routine:
06-35 WU
07-25 breastfeed (was trying to give him breast since he wake up but he did not take it)
08-35 sleep till 10-35 (for his first nap I lay down as well, as he sleeps in a co-sleeper, and after he wakes up at 40min mark I take him and put him next to me in our bed and we sleep another 1hr-1,5hr)
10-35 breastfeed
12-25 sleep till 13-05
13-05 breastfeed
14-45 sleep till 15-25
15-25 breastfeed
16-40 eat again (bottle of 70ml formula)
17-25 sleep till 17-55
19-00 breastfeed + 70ml formula - after that bath + BT routine
19-53 fell asleep (yesterday was not typical day, for the last week I made sure he is asleep at 19-30/19-40)
22-45 DF of 170ml formula
02-15 NF 200 ml formula
and this morning he woke up at 6-15

So, I need help with:
1. wake up time - his wake up time is fluctuating between 6 and 7 but most of the time it is closer to 6, which I would really like to change. His BT is normally around 19:30-19:40 and I will post his sample routine below. Maybe there are some suggestions?

2. going to sleep routine: we used a swaddle since birth and about a month ago he was fighting it very actively and I tried to put him to sleep without it and it worked, for 2 weeks he was going to sleep without a swaddle and it did not seem to influence his falling asleep times. Then two weeks ago he started screaming when I put him in his crib. I did no let him CIO or anything, so fear of the crib he has been sleeping in for 3 months would be strange. But his going to sleep routine has become quite difficult for me, for wind down he seems to prefer to be vertical on my shoulder when I walk around and do sh-pat and then i take him in the cradle position and give him a paci and continue sh-pat until his eyes are almost closing and then I transfer him to the crib. When I take him in the cradle position he normally fusses a lot, jerks his arms and legs and even cries a bit, his most prefered way is when i walk - then he falls asleep almost instantly. But transfering to his crib often wakes him up and then i have to do the whole process again. I tried having him in his crib and doing sh-pat, but he was only crying more and more untill his was totally hysterical and screaming at the top of his lungs and on such occasiaons it took me 30-40 min to clam him down afterwards, so i do not do it anymore. But this type of putting to sleep together with short naps of 45 min (which means I put him to sleep more often) is taking a toll on my back and is really frustrating me, as before he was falling asleep without all this carrying around. First, I though it was WW or GS but now after two weeks, I don't know anymore. I tried tweaking his A times but if anything he screams more after shorter A time. Any ideas on what I can change?

Huge thank you in advance to anybody who can help me with any of those mentioned above!

[weaver]

Hi hun, are you confident his reflux is entirely under control?  the short naps and the preference for sleeping upright (ie with you walking rather than laid in his crib) seem to me to indicate that he's having trouble settling when laying down. 

Not sure what to say about the breast refusal and so on...I think the general position is that a baby who won't nurse, can't nurse, for some reason, so there may be more to it than you think, in terms of what's going on with him.  Have you seen this for example?
http://kellymom.com/bf/concerns/child/back-to-breast/

[Domestic Engineer]

I would suspect that the reflux is at the root of most of these problems. Especially when you say that he prefers for you to hold him on your shoulder for shush-pat, then gets upset when you put him down in the crib - it's probably the lying flat that causes instant pain. Do you have head of the crib elevated? I would tell the pediatrician how he is doing and ask them whether you should up the medication dose or try a different medication. It might be that the dose he was on was sufficient while he was smaller, and now he's bigger and needs more.

With the breastfeeding, is it possible that lying flat is the problem there, too? Have your husband carefully look at the position he's in when you're breastfeeding him and the position he's in when you give him a bottle. If he's more upright with the bottle, it could be that the cradle nursing position just doesn't work for him. You could try alternate positions for nursing that are more upright - it should be easier to get him into different positions at 4 months than it is for a floppy newborn.

As for the wakeup time, unfortunately, there is often not a lot you can do to control the time a baby naturally wants to wake for the day. Somewhere between 6 am and 8 am is often just preprogrammed for them somehow at this age, and you just have to go with it. He's obviously not waking out of hunger, since he won't nurse for another hour. Have you tried putting him down later at night?

With the swaddle, if you don't think he needs it, that's fine, but we had to keep swaddling my son at that age even though he hated it and cried and struggled when we put him in. If he wasn't swaddled, we couldn't transfer him from our arms to his bed and he would wake himself up frequently at night flailing.

What about talking to your doctor about the possibility of stomach sleep? 4 months is still back sleep recommended, but it's also past the highest risk time for SIDS. A lot of reflux babies do better on their stomachs.

[*Liz*]

Popping by to see if I can help - and I agree about the reflux likely being the issue here.

What formula are you using?? It can be tricky to find the right one.

Do you use white noise? I settle my LO in a similar way, but I find white noise helps the transition to the crib.

[LaraDaisy]

Hi! thank you dear ladies for help and support and suggestions!
weaver & domestic engineer - I had the same thought about reflux and yesterday went to see the pediatrician and we now have an increased dose of omeprazole, in about 5 days if there is no improvement she suggested we try a special formula and if that does not help she said we will have to go to hospital and be under observation for several days and night to see how he acts. We'll see.

Liz - I am using Nestle's BEBA Optipro 1 (we live in Switzerland and this is the basic one from Nestle), I started with BEBA Comfortis which is for babies with sensitive tummies (it contains some kind of probiotics), but then switched to regular one and did not notice any difference. And I do not think he is reacting to formula because he started being like this way before we introduced formula.
I use white noise since very ealy, but now I mostly use it in the evening to even out the noise from outside (I keep the window open and now that the weather is good there is a lot of people having dinners on their balconies, making a lot of noise) and i keep it on during the night on lower levels, sometimes I also use it during the day if it is noisy outside. But I have not noticed any difference in his behaviour. But the last couple of days it has been getting a bit better - he allows me to put him in the crib while being awake and sh/pat him there till he sleeps, not every time, but every other time is already good. I also elevated the head of the crib.
As for positioning - I very seldom feed him when he is flat, only when he is still sleeping, when he is awake I keep him quite vertical and most of the time I have to walk around holding him parallel to my body and rocking him so that he keeps eating - this started a while ago and it was the main reason for me to suspect reflux, since he almost does not have spit ups.
As for stomach sleep - I do'nt think it would work for him, he does not really like being on his belly, he gets upset so fast when being on his belly, it is always a struggle to have tummy time, I tried putting him to sleep couple of time on his belly about a month ago to see how he reacts but no, he did not like it and started crying. But I put him to sleep on his side and then later in the night he turns by himself on his back.

Domestic engineer - the early WU news is not making me happy as I was so hoping to get some sleep in the morning but ok, if it is normal, it is normal. I tried putting him to sleep later couple of days in a row but it did not influence his WU time and I stopped as at least now I have some time in the evening to myself after I put him to sleep and sinc ehe is a short napper and I spend a lot of time with him during the day sometimes I really crave those precious moment of peace and quiet where I can just relax

weaver - thank you for the link, I read it (I love the kellymom site, it is so packed full of good advice on BF) but for us it is more the issue of a fussy eater I think, well not so much fussy as more not being comfortable enough to nurse properly, or so it seems to me.

and off the topic of sleep and eating, yesterday when we were at the doctor he had a huge disastrous meltdown for no apparent reason, well, I suspect he became scared of the new place & smells, he had the same during his 4 month appointment - he was screaming at the top of his lungs the moment he was put on the changing table to be undressed, it was terrible - he was screaming this very high pitched scream with tears rolling down his face, all red and shaking and there was NO way to calm him down, I was rocking him and shushing him and bouncing him and trying to give him th paci or breast - nothing worked! And in the mean time he had to be weighed and checked by the doctor so I had to put him down in this condition and I really feel horrible about it, I am not an expert in babies but do you think he might have some trust issues with me now? Because I was there, he saw me but I could not help him. I myself felt like I was failing him...
And any ideas what can I do in future to try and calm him down if he is scared?

[Domestic Engineer]

Being scared at the doctor is really normal, especially if you have to put him down and strip him. I don't think it will cause trust issues as long as you don't leave his sight. There's not a lot you can do, really, but I would hold the baby and undress him in my lap, then put him down to be weighed as quickly as possible and ask to put clothes or a blanket on again right away. If he takes a pack, give it before you start the weighing process. Asking them to turn off that fluorescent lighting can also help if there's a window or enough hall light.

I hope the extra medicine helps!!

[weaver]

Hugs for the doctor's misery, hard on you!  I know he's only 4 mo but I genuinely think it helps to tell him in advance what's going to happen, and keep talking to him throughout, stay right beside him, have your hand on him if you can, on his chest or on his head or holding his hand.  Stay where he can see you if at all possible.  Do they strip him down? Maybe they don't need to do that entirely throughout? Leave some clothes on or cover up quickly so he doesn't get cold, which is another cause of discomfort and stress. If the lights are very bright maybe there's an option to dim them?  Lots and lots of cuddles

Hope the new meds kick in and help lots!

[*Liz*]

I just replied about the formula on your BFing thread - its really confusing when you are on an elimination diet. Did you notice a change she you started the formula?? Its a major dairy challenge really isn't it??

You won't lose trust like that honey. Sometimes as parents we are helpless  . And sometimes we can't change what needs to happen. Hopefully the sheer fact you are there helps them  . As my older 2 get older I realise more and more that I can be there for them but can't always make the world right for them. My DS3 was born early and went straight to NICU. I held him briefly after birth, and then not again for 48 hrs. For the next 7 days I got 30 mins kangaroo care a day only - they rest of the time he was in his incubator. Despite all of that he always loved the bit of care I did give him, and was a very cuddly NB when he came home. They bond to you by instinct and smell, and they don't hold a grudge for a bad time at the doctors. Promise  .

[LaraDaisy]

Domestic Engineer, Anne, Liz, thank you so much for advice and nice words!
He needs to be naked for weighing and just in a diaper for the examination. And I do not think they will allow dim lights but I will see how he can be better comforted next time. I will definitely also try to undress him in my lap, maybe that helps as well. But with this kind of reaction I am really reluctant to go see the pediatrician because clearly I do not want to subject him to any more of hysterical crying...

So, he's been on the max dose of omeprazole for one week now and no considerable change in his condition in terms of BF And sleep related issues are still bothering me:
- his WU time is getting earlier and earlier, these days if he sleeps past 6 I am happy (but it has not happened in a while) even though his BT is quite stable at around 19-30 give or take 15 minutes
- now he does not like any kind of wind down except me holding him in a cradle position (he with a paci) and walking around. any ideas how to change that?

[weaver]

But with this kind of reaction I am really reluctant to go see the pediatrician because clearly I do not want to subject him to any more of hysterical crying...

I was very selective in my attendance at health checks for both LOs tbh, but I didn't have any thing like reflux to deal with and was very happy with their development throughout.  Perhaps you can negotiate your way around different bits of checks, not do everything every time?  I still think your doctor will have a role to play if his reflux is still acting up. Liz will know better than me.

If his WU is getting earlier, then his BT might need to get earlier too.  What is happening during the day for him?  Night sleep will be very influenced by daytime sleep. 

If you have a wind-down that works and doesn't drive you potty, use it.  I would aim to slow and then stop the walking, and work on getting him happy with you standing still and holding him.  Just go gradually. 

[LaraDaisy]

Hi Anne!

I still think your doctor will have a role to play if his reflux is still acting up.

sure I cannot avoid going to the pediatrician but his next appointment is at 6 months, I would like to try and stay of her office till then But of course if there is a medical need I will go, crying or no crying, his general health is important to me.

If his WU is getting earlier, then his BT might need to get earlier too.  What is happening during the day for him?  Night sleep will be very influenced by daytime sleep.

Since he is a short napper we do not have fixed by the clock schedule but he sleeps normally 4 to 5 naps (1 or 2 long ones and 2 or 3 short ones) depending on his WU time, total DS is normally between 3.5 and 4.5 hrs, BT between 19-20 and 19-40. I keep his A time 1.45-2hrs, unless he is showing signs of being tired and then I can put him to sleep after 1hr30 min or so. The last couple of days we have a new "routine" in the early morning - he starts stirring and moaning and grunting at around 4-4.30, I pull him next to me (he sleeps in a co-sleeper) and then we sleep till 5-30/5-40 when he starts to be active again (arms flying around, head moving from one side to the next, some sounds), then I breastfeed him for 2 or 3 minutes and he falls asleep for another hour or so. Like this his final wake up time is at 6-40 - 7-00 which is easier for me, since I get to sleep a bit in the morning.
You think I should move his BT earlier?

p.s. I had a major meltdown yesterday about his sleep, I receive regular mails from what to expect site (subscribed when was pregnant) and yesterdays mail was about STTN where they said that babies between 2 and 3 months should be able to sleep 5-6 hrs at night and between 5 and 6 months - 10-11 hrs uninterrupted sleep at night! And i feel lucky if my LO sleeps 4 hrs without waking up at night not to mention that during the day 45 min independent sleep in a crib is maximum! I was crying so hard! When i am faced with info that somebody's baby was or is sleeping better I just feel like i am doing something wrong! I know every baby is unique and is developing at his/her own pace and I keep telling that to myself everyday, but it is not always working...

[weaver]

Ok, from your last post, then his WU isn't getting earlier, as you're getting him to sleep til 7 or so, that sounds fine to me, I would stick with what you're doing for now.

I'm so sorry you had a meltdown over his sleep, sorry you were feeling so sad.  Big BW hugs from me!

[LaraDaisy]

Ok, from your last post, then his WU isn't getting earlier, as you're getting him to sleep til 7 or so, that sounds fine to me, I would stick with what you're doing for now.

I'm so sorry you had a meltdown over his sleep, sorry you were feeling so sad.  Big BW hugs from me!

OK, I will keep BT at around 19 and observe and come back if I have questions!
Huge thank you for the hugs! Sometimes they are so needed! I really would not know how I would do without this forum and all you wonderful ladies!!!

[weaver]

I think with the short naps I would expect less settled night time sleep.  I'd see the two are related. Honestly, it's not that you're doing anything wrong.

[*Liz*]

Oh emails like that drive me crazy. Who says they should all sleep like that by now?? Its silly blanket statements like that that lead to people doing silly things like putting cereal in bottles etc  .

Follow your instinct with the medical stuff - my baby has reflux as well but the last time I went and saw anyone was almost 2 months ago now. He's plodding along iyswim? Typical refluxer, but nothing a doctor can do much with for now.

There is a huge developmental leap at this age - and the great 4 month sleep regression. A lot of it is likely related to that. I've had some hideous early wake-ups recently 4/5am  .

Have you found the birth clubs where we all chat about what little pests they all are?? It does help give a measure of what is normal.

[LaraDaisy]

I think with the short naps I would expect less settled night time sleep.  I'd see the two are related. Honestly, it's not that you're doing anything wrong.

This morning he woke up at 5-30 and no interest in BFing and sleep... but yesterday was very difficult in terms of naps: I only managed to extend his nap once to 1hr15min, other ones were all about 30 min, his total sleep was less than 3 hrs, so by BT he was severely OT and even though I tried putting him earlier but it took me 30 min to get him to fall asleep. So, 5-30 wake up today only confirms that good daytime sleep equals longer night sleep.

Oh emails like that drive me crazy. Who says they should all sleep like that by now?? Its silly blanket statements like that that lead to people doing silly things like putting cereal in bottles etc

Yeah, the emails... I think I am gonna take the time to unsubscribe and give the comment why, because like you mentioned it is easy to imagine some people doing crazy stuff like putting cereal in bottles or even CIO at this age!

Follow your instinct with the medical stuff - my baby has reflux as well but the last time I went and saw anyone was almost 2 months ago now. He's plodding along iyswim? Typical refluxer, but nothing a doctor can do much with for now.

With reflux it is now easier - he is on the maximum dose, it took longer than a week to start working but things have improved, and his next appointment is in about 1 month (at 6 months age) so I think we should last one month without needing another visit!

There is a huge developmental leap at this age - and the great 4 month sleep regression. A lot of it is likely related to that. I've had some hideous early wake-ups recently 4/5am    .

Have you found the birth clubs where we all chat about what little pests they all are?? It does help give a measure of what is normal.

How do you survive waking up at 4 am?    I think every mother deseves a medal for the effort!
and thank you for the suggestion - I will check out the birth club, it does help to know I am not the only one having these kind of issues

oh and I almost forgot happy mother's day, ladies! 

[LaraDaisy]

Hello everyone! Our eating has improved a lot (due to meds I guess) but our sleeping has become hardly manageable... 
I really need some help because I am losing my mind with lack of sleep.
My LO started waking up earlier and earlier - this morning it was 4-40 and I cannot get him back to sleep. And during the day the only way he sleeps longer than 35-40 min is if I hold him, he used to sleep longer next to me in our bed (and I used to have a nap with him in the morning) but now it is not working either.
And putting him to sleep is a nightmare - he fights everything I do unless I am rocking - yesterday i tried just holding him and walking around and he starts falling asleep in my arms but the moment I try to put him down - he is wide awake. I tried letting him just be in his co-sleeper hoping he would fall asleep on his own, but only got a severely OT baby as he was not falling asleep by himself.
What I am doing wrong? What happened to my previously easy falling asleep baby? He used to fell asleep easily without needing to be held and without swaddle, he is 5 months tomorrow and I do not like where his sleep habits are headed...

[Domestic Engineer]

It sounds like the holding and the rocking and the sleeping together are causing problems for him, unfortunately. Now he's got those habits firmly entrenched and you will need to go through the process of forming new habits of independent sleep. Hopefully if he used to sleep well on his own it won't be as hard as if he never did.

Take a look at these and think about what you might like to try, and whether you're willing to give up the cuddles for better sleep.

Pick Up/Put Down (PU/PD) - Everything you ever needed to know!
Teaching Sleep- Tips from the boards

[LaraDaisy]

It sounds like the holding and the rocking and the sleeping together are causing problems for him, unfortunately. Now he's got those habits firmly entrenched and you will need to go through the process of forming new habits of independent sleep. Hopefully if he used to sleep well on his own it won't be as hard as if he never did.

Take a look at these and think about what you might like to try, and whether you're willing to give up the cuddles for better sleep.

Pick Up/Put Down (PU/PD) - Everything you ever needed to know!
Teaching Sleep- Tips from the boards

Hi! thank you for the answer! I was thinking and dreading the need for PU/PD... He is a short napper and I am afraid that not being able to have even those short naps will ruin both of us. Do you know of anybody who did pu-pd on a short napper?
And he also has reflux which is indicated as one of the reasons of not doing pupd.
I am really at a loss what to do.

And also, i don't know if it is relevant but I decided to post his last two days routines for you to see, maybe i am missing something.

14-05
WU 5-30 (he started fussing and kicking at around 3, so i took him in our bed)
E 6-00
S 7.40-8.10
E 9.50
S 10.00-10.40
S 11.50-13.15
E14.30
S 15.20-16.20
E 17.40
BT 18.40 (after 30 min of walking with him and trying to put him down and then picking him up)
DF 22.05
NF 01.15

15/05
WU 4.50
E 5.50
S 6.00-6.40
E 6.50
S 8.45-9.20
E 10.00
S 11.45-12.10
E 13.30
S 14.05-14.30
S 16.00-17.35
E 17.40
BT 19.45 (45 min of trying to put him to sleep)
DF 22.40
NF 01.40
this morning WU 4.40
E 4.50
S 5.50-6.30 and now we are both awake again waiting for next S

[Domestic Engineer]

Yikes on the early wake ups! You poor, tired mama!

From what I can see, it looks like you're doing pretty well with his EASY - he's eating more or less on 4 hours and his A times are good when he goes down properly. So I would conclude that sleep habits are probably the problem.

I haven't been around this board that long, but I do think PUPD is frequently used for short nappers. Since you rarely miss a nap entirely doing it, it might actually be easier for him than a baby used to making for hours in a wrap or something who is suddenly taking short naps in a crib. And if you get totally desperate, it's always you prerogative to hold him or whatever is needed for a little nap to survive the day.

For the reflux, how problematic do you think it is for him right now? Do you think he can't sleep on his back without pain? If he can't, PUPD might be a bad choice. I would try to maximize the time after eating before lying down for now, even if it throws off the 4 hour routine. Do you feel like he gives clear enough cues that you could distinguish between pain and just not wanting to be in the crib?

[LaraDaisy]

Hi domestic engineer! So, I have been thinking over the PUPD option and it does seem like the best next step for us, even though I have no idea how I will do it, but it is clear that something needs to be done. I would start right away but my DH is on business trip and our families are thousands km away, so I am not sure it is best to start now on my own (my DH comes back in two weeks), but I am considering it, since his reflux seems under control and my LO can sleep more or less ok on his back.
Thank you for your help and all the suggestions! I really appreciate it!!!
Now I am heading to the PUPD forum, to read and read and read, I need all the information I can get
Have a nice day and thanks again! hopefully soon I will be posting a success story in PUPD forum

[weaver]

Hi hun,
he's on the young side for PU/PD and it might not be a good idea with a refluxer, as it might can aggravate the gut.  I'll have a look whenever you post on PU/PD but, personally, it would not be the route I would take. Remember, PU.PD is a method of *last resort*.

[LaraDaisy]

Hi Anne! I know PUPD is not the method of choice for babies with reflux, and in general it is a method of last resort. That is why (on top of crying that will be part of it) I am so reluctant to do it. So for now I am just gathering all the info I can find.
Also, his gong to sleep routine has improved (knocking on wood) and now I do not have to walk with him in my arms for a very long time, it is most of the time bath, jammies, lullaby while holding him on my shoulder, then paci and a bit of shushing and then in the crib, sometimes I have to pick him up to repeat the shushing part, but last couple of days putting him to sleep has been quite manageable. And at night he only wakes up once to eat. His Wake up time is still not consistent but I blame the short nap, because of them the BT is not consistent. But I am hopeful - now that 6 moths are getting closer maybe he will outgrow the short naps.
And thank you for voicing your opinion! My husband is kinda pushing me to sleep trim him so that he learns to fall asleep by himself and like I mentioned I am reluctant to do PUPD, and having somebody else support me in not rushing into PUPD is such a relief!!! 

[weaver]

Hugs hun. (())

The short naps must be super frustrating. But your latest post sounds really good! Anythjng you'd like us to think about? What's DH worried about? What's his day looking like right now? But don't worry about the details if you're reasonably happy for now.

Of course there are lots of ways of sleep training - routine being the first one - and lots of gentle ways too. 
 
After I posted yesterday, I remembered that LO is touchy as well.  All babies are individuals of course but PU/PD would've sent my touchy into orbit! Not good!

[LaraDaisy]

Anne, I will be happy to post our last two days!
yesterday:
WU 6.30
E 7.45
S 8.50-10.00 - I tried w2s and stayed next to the crib and shushed him and put my hands on him when he was stirring, I did it for 1 hr and then left the room, he woke up 10 minutes after I left the room
E 11.20 solids
E 12.00
S 12.40-13.05
E 15.20
S 14.45-15.15 after this nap  I just could not get him to fall asleep for another nap around 17-00 - I tried for 30 minutes and just gave up, he was not inerested in eating either
BT 18.20 (he was OT for sure but he was knocked out in a couple of minutes)
E 18.52 - he woke up and I fed him and he fell asleep
DF 23.00
NF 03.10

Today:
WU 6.30
E 7.30 solids
E 7.50 bottle
S 8.45-9.35 I took him when he started stirring (after about 30 minutes) and put him next to me on the couch (I was also trying to have a nap)
E 11.20
S 11.55-13.20
E 14.40 solids
S 16.00-16.30 - I went out for a walk with a stroller hoping to get a longer nap out of him, but he took a very long time falling asleep and had only 30 min nap
E 17.10
BT 19.00 - he was showing no signs of being tired but then in one momnt just went from nice mood to a bad one and putting him to sleep was not super fast, I spent maybe 15 minutes, but this I do not mind
now he is stirring from time to time (i look at the baby monitor) and i even rushed in once thinking he was awake but thankfully I paused before touching him and he just stirred and seemed to be going back to sleep

We moved him to another bedroom yesterday, one week prior to that we switched him from a co-sleeper to a crib but it was standing in our bedroom next to our bed for a week, and since yesterday morning he is in a separate room, for now I sleep in the same room as him, on the couch, the idea is for me to get back to our bedroom in about a week if all goes well.
Also, in terms of props - we use paci, but it is a real necessity only for naps, as he has it most of his naps, and for nightsleep he only uses it to fall asleep and then he spits it out and sleeps ok without it, and even if i try to use it (when he was sometimes finishing the night in our bed next to me and started stirring and kicking I would try to use paci to get him and me to sleep a bit longer) he would be really not eager to take it, he would press his lips and turn his head from side to side avoiding the paci. Also, couple of weeks ago he started taking it out of his mouth with his hand and even succeded once to put it back in correctly, other times he would put it the wrong side in so, I am hoping he would develop enough coordination soon to be able to reinsert the paci if he wants it.

As for my husband - well, he just believes in making babies as independent as possible as early as possible, so he would want him to fall asleep without any actions from our side, for him the ideal situation would be: bath, jammies, put into crib and leave and the baby would go to sleep by himself. When I was pregnant we talked a lot about teaching our LO independence from early on, but I mostly talked about food, that he would be joining us at the dinner table and we would be giving himjunks of our food to nibble on the moment he is old enought to do that. But my DH also wants him to be independent in falling asleep. He is also now talking a lot about weaning our LO off the NF. For me of course the well-being of my son is more important than my comfort, besides, I do not think we have it that bad after all - he only wakes up to eat once now, and who knows maybe in one month, when our LO is 6 months old, he might decide to not eat at night anymore.

As for me, the only reason I am considering pupd is to make him take longer naps, as he has been sleeping 20-30 minutes since 2 months and I can tell you after 3 months of it I would like him to have a bit more predictable daytime nap schedule as his short naps make it difficult to stick to feeding schedule as sometimes the times to sleep and eat overlap and for me it is always an issue to figure out when to feed him not to feed him to sleep and also so that he does not go to sleep hungry. And of course a predictable eat-sleep schedule would make it easier to plan activities like going to a doctor or a massage or a meeting with friends.

also, I rememebered another reason I was thinking about pupd - I read somewhere that between 4 and 6 months they develop object permamnence and I am afraid that getting him to lose the paci and learn to fall asleep independently after 6 mo might be very difficult, do you have any experience in this area? Is there the better time to do pupd?

[LaraDaisy]

And this morning he woke up at 5:30, at least that's when I heard him cry, but he was rubbing his eyes and yawning and I was not able to wake up yet myself so I rocked him a bit and put him to sleep together with me on the couch, I think he fell asleep (I did) till 6:10 and then I repeated the process and then we both slept till 7. I know it is bad to rock him to sleep and put him next to me but at 5:30 this morning I just could not even think straight... I think months of lack of sleep are taking their toll on me.
So, the EW this morning, is it because of bad naps?

[weaver]

In the nicest possible way, Lara, and I'm sure he's a lovely man, but DH needs a bit of a reality check.  You have a *baby*.  He will not be independent until... well.... DH might not want to know about 5 yos needing cuddles to get to sleep sometimes, or 3 yos waking in the night, but these are the things that happen in real life. Your baby needs his parents, and he will need them in awkward and displeasing ways (like the middle of the night, for no apparent reason) on and off for years to come.  What's more, the best way to foster independence in a young child, even a baby, is to meet those needs.  A child who feels secure is more likely to act secure, if you get me. 

for him the ideal situation would be: bath, jammies, put into crib and leave and the baby would go to sleep by himself.

Yes, that would be the ideal, wouldn't it?   But a touchy refluxer is unlikely to do that, and so are most babies I know.  They need human contact and intervention in their little lives.  And will keep needing it til they're 18! But hopefully not to get to sleep

At the same time, I think there's a spectrum of 'baby reasonable' and 'baby unreasonable'.  1 NW is great! 7 NWs would be unreasonable and we'd need to try to do something about it.  Right now, LO is firmly on the reasonable end of the spectrum

As regards him being in his own room, and without being alarmist, I would say please check the SIDS recommendations where you are.  You must do what is right for your family, but the recommendation here in the UK is that babies should share a room at least for the first six months. For us, we had LOs in a cot in our room til well past a year and we swapped the adult sleeping arrangement around to whatever suited that day/week/month, sometimes both of us, sometimes one of us.  TBH, I asked OH to sleep in another room when LO2 was born, when the NWs were most frequent in the first six weeks or so, and it worked beautifully.
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/pages/reducing-risk-cot-death.aspx

Back to your routine.  I think what you did this morning was spot on.  You've got to do what you need to get through, snuggling in bed in the early morning and both having a doze is fine, imo.  The thing is, you're avoiding OT (for both of you) and that's a good plan in itself.

Have a look at this link and see if it helps at all - just average A times - at 4 mos you'd be looking at 1 hr 45 to 2 hrs, though he's maybe closer to 5 mos now?
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
His A times are looking a bit variable to me.

On day 1 your As are 2 hr 20, 2 hr 40, then 1 hr 40 (did he fall asleep then? or was this planned? if planned then I would push this A time).  Then he  conks out and does a good night.  On day 2, it's 2 hr 15, 2 hr 20, then 2 hr 40.

In fact, both days look fine and day two in particular looks very good to me. Getting that longer nap in the middle of the day will make a difference for him, as he'll be better rested, but just tired enough to get a bit of a sleep later.  At about 5 mos, you're moving into reducing the cat nap territory, 30/40 mins might be all he needs.  Around 6 mos most babies will drop that CN altogether, you see, and you'll just have two naps. 

Specifically, for that first nap on day 1, I sort of 'hear' you sounding a bit 'agh! he woke up!' but overall he did a nap of 1 hr 10 minutes.  It could be that his sleep cycle is 35 mins, and if it is, then he did two cycles and woke up ready to go. 

My touchy LO needed his paci/soother to relax and sleep.  He's 5 yo now (no more paci, in case you're worried!) but he still needs a comfort item sometimes.  I think the key thing is to make the difference in your mind between a prop and a comfort item.  For us, the paci was never a prop. He needed it, but we never had to wake up to replug it, not once, because he never woke up because he lost it, iyswim.  So it helped him, and caused us no issues, so we left him with it.  If you think the paci is waking him up in any way, then I would consider trying to get rid of it, but if not, I wouldn't worry.  I don't think it's a bad thing in itself.  Others might differ.  If you do want to get rid of the paci, right now or in the future, I would go with 'gentle removal'.
Gentle Removal Plan

Lots of babies stir around 5 am, it's totally normal.  Sometimes they wake right up, because they are hungry due to a GS or whatever.  But is he actually waking at that time?  I remember lying stock still in bed trying not to breathe too loudly so that they'd settle back to sleep (silly me!) but that did work a lot of the time.  If you think he might settle back down, try to resist the urge to intervene.  If you can settle him in the cot, do! Gentle hands on might work. But don't beat yourself up for getting both of you back to sleep til 7.

That's a bit of an essay! In a nutshell, I honestly don't see that much wrong here hope that's a helpful thing to say.

[LaraDaisy]

Anne, I appreciate all the information and advice!!!

the best way to foster independence in a young child, even a baby, is to meet those needs.  A child who feels secure is more likely to act secure, if you get me.

I know! I am not into hardcore attachment parenting but I am a very strong believer in giving the babies what they need/want so that they get to develop their own independence taking the time they need, and not to mention the trust - I do think this way is the only way to establish trust between me and my son so that even when he is a rebellious teen he will trust me!

SIDS recommendations where you are

Here they just recommend back sleeping which is the case for us - my LO will fall asleep on his side but then roll over to his back and sleep the rest of the night on his back. Besides, I am sleeping on the sofa-bed in the same room as him to facilitate the transition period. His crib is totally empty and on top of that we have a special breathable mattress cover and sheets.

Have a look at this link and see if it helps at all - just average A times - at 4 mos you'd be looking at 1 hr 45 to 2 hrs, though he's maybe closer to 5 mos now?
Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
His A times are looking a bit variable to me.
On day 1 your As are 2 hr 20, 2 hr 40, then 1 hr 40 (did he fall asleep then? or was this planned? if planned then I would push this A time).  Then he  conks out and does a good night.  On day 2, it's 2 hr 15, 2 hr 20, then 2 hr 40.

In fact, both days look fine and day two in particular looks very good to me. Getting that longer nap in the middle of the day will make a difference for him, as he'll be better rested, but just tired enough to get a bit of a sleep later.  At about 5 mos, you're moving into reducing the cat nap territory, 30/40 mins might be all he needs.  Around 6 mos most babies will drop that CN altogether, you see, and you'll just have two naps. 

Specifically, for that first nap on day 1, I sort of 'hear' you sounding a bit 'agh! he woke up!' but overall he did a nap of 1 hr 10 minutes.  It could be that his sleep cycle is 35 mins, and if it is, then he did two cycles and woke up ready to go. 

My LO is actually 5 months and 10 days today so his A times are 2-2,5 hrs and i keep track of those. The one A time which was 1hr40min was the time that I could not stay up any longer and he seemed sleepy enough to join me in bed, so I just put us both to sleep, what can I say sometimes mamma needs some daysleep too This is not a habit for us, so his A times are more than 2hrs.

I think he is teething, at least seems the right time for it. Yesterday, he woke up with a fever and we had quite a rough day in terms of nap - he would cry for no reason and would get knocked out mid cry in my arms and then would only sleep in my arms or next to me. The same was for his night sleep - I barely had time to have dinner and went to bed without brushing my teeth - he just could not stay alone longer than several minutes. Also, last night we co-slept, and once again I am sure that co-sleeping is not for us, the way he kicks and throws his arms around... I feel like I was having a fight the whole night

today no fever during the day but naps are not good: it took me more than 50 minutes to put him to sleep for his 1st nap and after 2hr10min of A time, so his total A time was more like 3 hrs, and my w2s did not work (i did it at 15 min since he sometimes wakes up after 20 min nap), he just woke up after 30 min. The same was for 2nd nap - very long putting to sleep session with a lot of crying and then only 30 min nap (I did w2s at 15 min). For his 3rd nap he fell asleep in the stroller, like 2 minutes away from home, I was running home to put him in his crib but did not make it. And at home I just took him out of the stroller and let him sleep in my arms for about 1 hr to prevent too much OT for BT.

I have to say he keeps me in shape every time I think I got him figured out and our BT routine is under control and manageable he changes! Now he does not like to be in my arms, he literally cries harder when I pick him. So what i do now is I carry him on my shoulder a bit, sing a lullaby, then transfer to the crib, give him paci and shush while putting my arm on him, in most cases he fusses for quite a while, he thrashes his lovey and rolls from one side to another, but if i try to pick him up he cries, so i just turn him on his side from time to time and one of those times he falls asleep.

Once again, huge thanks from me for pointing out that pupd might not be the best choice for us!!! I really think in our case if the A time is right and if he gets better naps then BT is not too difficult, it is long sometimes, but pupd is not a way to shorten BT routine.
So I think I should rather focus on getting those naps right.

[creations]

Hi there. I have not followed your thread but just wanted to stop by and see how things are going?
I'm not sure if weaver has consistent internet connection just now and wasn't really sure whether you were in need of continued support or if you feel like your question has now been answered?

[LaraDaisy]

Hi creations! THank you for passing by!!!
Yes, I do actually still need help with early wakings Now it is 6 here and he's been up since 5 and i tried to shush him and rock him and hold him back to sleep and put him next to myself in bed but it does not work. It is getting very difficult - I still do not get any sleep during the day with the short naps (that i now try to get him to extend but it means i have to sit next ot the crib for the whole nap) and my DH is away on business and I am feeling really bad, how i am supposed to function on this amount of sleep? I am also supposed to enjoy this time withy my baby, but how?
What can I do to deal with EWs?
I went through the reasons in the link Early Waking and I don't know which one is applicable to him. He is not hungry and the room is dark and there is white noise. I think he is not OT and his A time is not short.
I am also not thinking straight right now... 
Maybe some people have it worse than I do and i just need to embrace things the way thay are but his short naps + EW make me a very tired and unhappy person...

[creations]

Oh honey I am so sorry you are feeling this way right now. I know EW plus short naps are ever so tiring and lead to terrible sleep deprivation for you, I've been there, there are days you just feel you can't go on like this but there is no other option. So many hugs honey.
I can tell you one thing, you *will* get through this. It is not going to last for ever even though right now it feels like it will always be this way, it won't I promise that.
I'm so glad I stopped by, now I can send you a big virtual ((hug)) if nothing else.

I think your LO is about 5.5 months now, is that right?
I remember with mine, from 3.5 months (our 4 month regression came early) to 5.5 months was not what you could call an enjoyable time, we had 40 min naps and 5am or even 4.30am morning WU. Awful!  At 5.5 months though he slept the first long nap he had done since before the regression and suddenly there was light at the end of sleep deprivation tunnel.  It is quite common for LOs to 'suddenly' start to nap a bit better around 6 months, almost like a magic switch, you do of course need to be on a suitable routine to give them the best chance once the regression period is over.

Could you give me a brief overview of how things are right now, your EASY times, if reflux is controlled with meds, where he is sleeping (cot in own room, your room?), how you settle him.
I will happily have a look and see if there is anything that jumps out as a possible way forward for you.

Meanwhile - might I suggest at least a short rest period for yourself.  He's what I'd do. During his A time before WD for nap put a glass of water by your own bed, shut the curtains and go to the toilet. Then as soon as you have put him down go *directly* to your bed.  You may feel you need a cuppa, or you want to catch up with laundry or other chores - don't. Just go straight to your bed. Have some water instead of the cuppa and lay down on your bed, in the dark, shut your eyes and breath.  Even if he is only napping 30 or 40 mins you will get 30-40 mins rest period, even if you do not sleep your body and mind should feel better having the time to be still and calm in a dark room.
Despite longing for a nap I used this rest period and I honestly believe it helps.  Try it for a couple of days, there may be a way to build in this rest period each day,  I know it doesn't sound much but it's something. You may be surprised how much your body and mind appreciate it.

[LaraDaisy]

Thank you! Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words!!! I know! I know it will not last forever, but sometimes it is just so damn hard! Thank you again! Even virtual hugs mean a lot! And support that I get here - I just do not have words to describe how great and valuable it is!

Thank you for the advice - this is more or less what i did the moment he was showing signs of tiredness. I went to bed and took him with me, decided that this time I was indesperate need of some APOP. We slept for 35 min which helped me A LOT! And the rest of the day was manageable.

My Lo is indeed 5,5 months and he has been short napper since 2 months and since 3 weeks EWs started. I did manage the short naps ok, if I needed to extend one in 90% of cases I could do that by holding him the rest of the nap, not the best solution but at least he got the sleep and i got if not sleep but at least rest. When EWs started I was managing ok but the last week I decided to start working on extending those naps which means - W2S at 25 min mark and then I sit next to the crib for the rest of the nap and if I am lucky I get to extend it.
I actually have a very strong desire to start a poll in the naps forum to know what is the age they start having longer naps, because I do need to see some light at the end of the tunnel.

So, about our routine. He is on a kind of 4 hr EASY, not perfectly due to short naps. I try quite strictly to keep his A times to at least 2 hrs, normally it is 2-2,5 hrs, but his E times are not always 4 hrs apart, as foten I have to somehow manage around short naps and not feed to sleep.
Here's yesterday and today:
yesterday:
woke up at 5-00 and I rocked him to sleep and put him in the bed with me, he slept till 6.20
E 7.00
S 8.25-9.05 (had some rest myself so did not try to extend this nap)
E 10.40
S 11.20-12.40 (I managed to extend it)
E 15.30
S 14.50-15.25 - failed to extend it
E 17.40
BT 18.15 (a bit early but putting him for a short late nap did not feel right so I decided to have early BT instead)
DF 21.45 (normally i do DF between 22 and 23 but he woke up and nothing could get him back to sleep)
NF 01.30

today:
WU 5.00 and nothing worked to get him back to sleep
E 6.50 solids
S 7.20-8.00 slept together with him
E 8.00
S 10.10-10.50 could not extend the nap
E 11.45
S 12.50-14.20 he woke up after 35 min and I was holding him for a while, so he slept in my arms and then some more in the crib and I actually woke him up to avoid having similar situation as yesterday where another nap would be too close to BT
E 15.40
S 16.55-17.25 had a short nap in the stroller
E 18.50
BT 19.30
Unfortunately, his WU times and BT are not consistent due to short naps. His NFs as well as not at the same time every night, they are not even exactly 4 hrs after DF, sometimes it is 3hrs or 3,5hrs or 4,5hrs, I think he dii have 5hrs between meals at night couple of times, but not more than that.

As for his reflux I think it is under control but honestly the way the discussion went last time at the pediatrician I figured as long as he is gaining weight and seems most of the time Ok I will not go back to discuss reflux because of some discomfort because he is on the highest dose of meds now and there is not many other options of meds that we could get her, it is either powder or some kind of granules, powder I give now in the bottle with some water, but granules have to be mixed with some puree and taking into account how he is totally rejecting solids so far I do not want to switch to granules. I also use special thickened formula, I stopped BFing just a couple of days ago and now he gets most of his feeds from formula and only 2 feeds are my frozen before breastmilk.

As for sleep he used to be sleeping in a co-sleeper next to me but at 5 months (2 weeks ago) we first put him in a crib in our room and one week later we moved him in a separate bedroom but I moved together with him and sleep now on a sofa bed in the same room as him, the idea was for me to move back to our bedroom after a week or so, but i am not in a hurry. Also, the head of bed is elevated.

For his sleep routine I carry him around on my shoulder saying a night verse and then I softly sing kind of a lulluby (just repeating "good night Mattias sleep tight", it rhymes in my mothertongue Sometimes while signing I take him in the cradle hold and give him paci but he seems to like it less now so now after my shoulder he goes straight down, I give him paci, place his lovey in his sight and reach and just sit next to the crib shushing and holding a hand on his hip, he fusses and moves around but I do not pick him up unless he starts to cry, then I pick him up for a 30-40 seconds and put him back, he seems to like to fall asleep on his side, but does not have skills to turn into his preferred position so I just roll him from side to side every now and then and sometimes after one roll he would fall asleep, sometimes it takes 4 or 5 rolls, and sometimes he falls asleep on one side, sometimes on the other. So, for now I am almost happy with our going to sleep routine as it does not require too much effort. It does take time sometimes, when is OT, but nothing critical.

Also, I think it has to be mentioned that he is definitely a thriving not-so-little-anymore boy, he is now 8.4 kg (18.52 lb) and 70 cm (27.56 in), which puts him in seventy something percentile for weight and ninety something percentile for height. Everybody, like literally everybody who sees him, tells me he is so big for his age and I totally agree: everytime during a walk I see babies that already walk that are the same size as my 5 months old boy who does not even sit unassisted yet

oh my, motherhood is such a strange dichotomy: one moment I am crying from tiredness and cannot get out of bed for 20 minutes and a few hours later I cry happy tears at the laughs and shrieks of my LO! It is so difficult sometimes but I cannot imagine my life without him! I love him so much!

[LaraDaisy]

And I forgot to mention: this week he had fever on Tuesday the whole day and a bit on Wednseday and he has been chewing on stuff and drooling like crazy since 3,5 noths old, so I suspect he might be teething as well.

[creations]

I have little time just now as I am heading out with my DS for a play date but I wanted to stop by and drop off a hug for today.
It really is incredibly hard when they are this young and not sleeping well so you get no rest.
Try to continue the routine of a rest period for you at least once per day.

Very briefly though. My temptation would be to increase his A time significantly. Rather than 2 to 2.5 hrs I'd be looking at trying out 2.5 to 3hrs.  This is the guidance time for 5.5 to 6months but some LOs need longer than the guidance times.  Basically you are having a rough time right now which can't really get much worse, can it? So in my mind the risk of some OT is well worth the possibility of extended naps.
There IS a chance it will be too long for him and he may begin to wake at 20 mins (OT) instead of 30 however there is also a chance that he will be easier to extend and tired enough to begin taking longer naps. Even if a few days show OT nap WUs LOs can settle into a new routine with a longer A over a period of days and the OT 20 min naps pass, turning into decent nap lengths instead.

My own LO needed an a time at least 2 weeks ahead of his actual age and would have been on at least 3hrs for his first A of the day by now.

Have a think about what I've said. You do not need to change anything immediately.
If you would like to try this approach I'd suggest increasing over a few days or a week to reach those times.
I would also focus on one nap per day to extend rather than all of them. I suggest nap 1 to extend, nap 2 your own rest period but it's up to you.

Have a good day. I'll be around again later x

PS What is the powder meds he is on for the reflux? Is he actually showing signs of pain or not?

[LaraDaisy]

Hi again!
I think I will try to increase A times, not sure how he will take it though... Today for example he was dead tired after 1,5 hrs every A time, I made efforts to keep him awake. But I suspect it might be linked to his general well-being as well - he was extra fussy and whiny today, had fever in the evening and woke up couple of times screaming after BT. I suspect he is teething but so far no signs of them...

PS What is the powder meds he is on for the reflux? Is he actually showing signs of pain or not?

He is on Nexium (omeprazole), in sachets, it is actually also granules but they are water soluble, 10g per sachet, I give him now 1,5 sachet per day, the maximum is 2g of omeprazole for 1 kg of bodyweight, so he was 7.4 kgs at 4 months and has 15mg as maximum dose. About 2 weeks ago he was ok, no signs of pain, some spit ups and delayed burps, but now I am not sure... I have not figured out if he is teething or he might also be in pain from reflux, becasue sometimes he cries after the feed, sometime she refuses to feed, sometimes he gives the high pitched cry at night to immediately fall asleep after, sometimes he wakes up screaming dring naps and nightsleep as well, some days he is whining like crazy for hours - all this in the last 2 weeks. This is my first baby so it is hard for me to to be sure what is wrong exactly.

I would also focus on one nap per day to extend rather than all of them. I suggest nap 1 to extend, nap 2 your own rest period but it's up to you.

Just out of curiosity, why it is not advisable to try to extend all naps of the day, go all in, so to speak? Is it for my own sanity? or is it also better for him?

[creations]

If he is poorly his sleep and A times will likely go off track anyway.
Fever, screaming wake ups etc can be a sign of teething or a reflux flare, we often had a reflux flare up and cold-like symptoms during teething. It could be either.  I've asked for some more experienced reflux eyes to have a look.

Have you tried any meds before sleep, ibupropfen for instance, to see if this helps with teething pain?

Just out of curiosity, why it is not advisable to try to extend all naps of the day, go all in, so to speak? Is it for my own sanity? or is it also better for him?

Really for your own sanity. It is incredibly hard work if you have EW and then spend every single nap time in there trying to extend, even more exhausting if you are on your own for all A times (I think you said DH is away) and have the basic house chores such as sterilizing bottles etc to do alone too. Honestly I think it's just too much to take on. If you prefer to go 'all in' then that's fine. Some people do prefer to swiftly implement a new routine and get the whole thing done and dusted in a few days or a week. If this is your preference I'd suggest waiting until he is clearly well.  I can expand on how to approach it if you decide to go this way.

[*Liz*]

The thing with reflux, is medicated or not it will cause issues from time to time. My 6 month old is my third refluxer, and he is basically fine, but I had a NWing for 1.5 hrs last night because he trapped some wind and it made him throw up. He then had a really sicky day today and so bust his naps. It really is just how it goes sometimes though. The only other thing to think about is whether things have go worse since you switched to formula - cows milk protein intolerance can mimic reflux but is sometimes hard to spot when you are breastfeeding.

I agree with Creations and I would move towards 2.5-3hrs A time. My DS does that now, but might drop to 2 hrs towards the end of the day if they are all been short naps.

Many of us AP a bit in the early mornings. My DS is still in his co-sleeper with me, but if he EWs I stick on some white noise and do my best to ignore him until a reasonable hour. Sometimes if I am tired I swap with DH (he sleeps in the spare room mainly), and DH lies with him and squeezes his hand until he drifts off again.

On the day you just posted - he actually pretty much slept 11hrs which is basically a full night. Early bedtimes do not always work at this sort of age unless your baby like to add on lost sleep. It tends to work better when they are only on one nap. An EW is technically 10hrs of night sleep or less, not the time on the clock, and not all babies do full 12 hr nights despite what the sample routines say.

[LaraDaisy]

Hello ladies!

If he is poorly his sleep and A times will likely go off track anyway.
Fever, screaming wake ups etc can be a sign of teething or a reflux flare, we often had a reflux flare up and cold-like symptoms during teething. It could be either.  I've asked for some more experienced reflux eyes to have a look.

Yes, by today I do suspect his reflux is acting up as well: he is taking full feeds only when half asleep or sleeping, today during the day I could not get more than 80ml into him. I will see fow a few more days how it goes, because, he is not consistent, the day before yesterday he was eating fine, and if he continues like that for a few more days I think I will take him to see our pediatrician.

Have you tried any meds before sleep, ibupropfen for instance, to see if this helps with teething pain?

I give him paracetamol in case of fever if it bothers him. But I think I might try your suggestion - to give him paracetamol after bath.

If this is your preference I'd suggest waiting until he is clearly well.  I can expand on how to approach it if you decide to go this way.

I think I will wait a bit... My DH is only coming back Sunday, besides, I am battling a cold now myself, so for sure I do not have energy to spare. I will stick to one nap per day for now.

he only other thing to think about is whether things have go worse since you switched to formula - cows milk protein intolerance can mimic reflux but is sometimes hard to spot when you are breastfeeding.

I read that cow's milk protein sensitivity is found in high percentage of reflux babies and I stayed off dairy almost all the time I was EBFing. But I do not think he has it, because now that he is mostly formula fed his digestive system seems much better (the painful gas is gone), even though I had a very strict diet while BFing...

Just out of curiosity, why it is not advisable to try to extend all naps of the day, go all in, so to speak? Is it for my own sanity? or is it also better for him?

Really for your own sanity. It is incredibly hard work if you have EW and then spend every single nap time in there trying to extend, even more exhausting if you are on your own for all A times (I think you said DH is away) and have the basic house chores such as sterilizing bottles etc to do alone too. Honestly I think it's just too much to take on. If you prefer to go 'all in' then that's fine. Some people do prefer to swiftly implement a new routine and get the whole thing done and dusted in a few days or a week. If this is your preference I'd suggest waiting until he is clearly well.  I can expand on how to approach it if you decide to go this way.

On the day you just posted - he actually pretty much slept 11hrs which is basically a full night. Early bedtimes do not always work at this sort of age unless your baby like to add on lost sleep. It tends to work better when they are only on one nap. An EW is technically 10hrs of night sleep or less, not the time on the clock, and not all babies do full 12 hr nights despite what the sample routines say.

On one hand early BT is good for some free time in the evening for me, but I would like to keep it somewhere around 19-30. I think it gives me more chance to have a later WU time

[creations]

Thanks for stopping by Liz

Lara, for now then I'd try to increase the A as mentioned but keep a thought to the chance he is feeling poorly too.
And I hope you are feeling better soon too.

Let us know how it goes x