4 mo: help needed with adjusting WU time & go to sleep routine

[creations]

Oh honey I am so sorry you are feeling this way right now. I know EW plus short naps are ever so tiring and lead to terrible sleep deprivation for you, I've been there, there are days you just feel you can't go on like this but there is no other option. So many hugs honey.
I can tell you one thing, you *will* get through this. It is not going to last for ever even though right now it feels like it will always be this way, it won't I promise that.
I'm so glad I stopped by, now I can send you a big virtual ((hug)) if nothing else.

I think your LO is about 5.5 months now, is that right?
I remember with mine, from 3.5 months (our 4 month regression came early) to 5.5 months was not what you could call an enjoyable time, we had 40 min naps and 5am or even 4.30am morning WU. Awful!  At 5.5 months though he slept the first long nap he had done since before the regression and suddenly there was light at the end of sleep deprivation tunnel.  It is quite common for LOs to 'suddenly' start to nap a bit better around 6 months, almost like a magic switch, you do of course need to be on a suitable routine to give them the best chance once the regression period is over.

Could you give me a brief overview of how things are right now, your EASY times, if reflux is controlled with meds, where he is sleeping (cot in own room, your room?), how you settle him.
I will happily have a look and see if there is anything that jumps out as a possible way forward for you.

Meanwhile - might I suggest at least a short rest period for yourself.  He's what I'd do. During his A time before WD for nap put a glass of water by your own bed, shut the curtains and go to the toilet. Then as soon as you have put him down go *directly* to your bed.  You may feel you need a cuppa, or you want to catch up with laundry or other chores - don't. Just go straight to your bed. Have some water instead of the cuppa and lay down on your bed, in the dark, shut your eyes and breath.  Even if he is only napping 30 or 40 mins you will get 30-40 mins rest period, even if you do not sleep your body and mind should feel better having the time to be still and calm in a dark room.
Despite longing for a nap I used this rest period and I honestly believe it helps.  Try it for a couple of days, there may be a way to build in this rest period each day,  I know it doesn't sound much but it's something. You may be surprised how much your body and mind appreciate it.

[LaraDaisy]

Thank you! Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words!!! I know! I know it will not last forever, but sometimes it is just so damn hard! Thank you again! Even virtual hugs mean a lot! And support that I get here - I just do not have words to describe how great and valuable it is!

Thank you for the advice - this is more or less what i did the moment he was showing signs of tiredness. I went to bed and took him with me, decided that this time I was indesperate need of some APOP. We slept for 35 min which helped me A LOT! And the rest of the day was manageable.

My Lo is indeed 5,5 months and he has been short napper since 2 months and since 3 weeks EWs started. I did manage the short naps ok, if I needed to extend one in 90% of cases I could do that by holding him the rest of the nap, not the best solution but at least he got the sleep and i got if not sleep but at least rest. When EWs started I was managing ok but the last week I decided to start working on extending those naps which means - W2S at 25 min mark and then I sit next to the crib for the rest of the nap and if I am lucky I get to extend it.
I actually have a very strong desire to start a poll in the naps forum to know what is the age they start having longer naps, because I do need to see some light at the end of the tunnel.

So, about our routine. He is on a kind of 4 hr EASY, not perfectly due to short naps. I try quite strictly to keep his A times to at least 2 hrs, normally it is 2-2,5 hrs, but his E times are not always 4 hrs apart, as foten I have to somehow manage around short naps and not feed to sleep.
Here's yesterday and today:
yesterday:
woke up at 5-00 and I rocked him to sleep and put him in the bed with me, he slept till 6.20
E 7.00
S 8.25-9.05 (had some rest myself so did not try to extend this nap)
E 10.40
S 11.20-12.40 (I managed to extend it)
E 15.30
S 14.50-15.25 - failed to extend it
E 17.40
BT 18.15 (a bit early but putting him for a short late nap did not feel right so I decided to have early BT instead)
DF 21.45 (normally i do DF between 22 and 23 but he woke up and nothing could get him back to sleep)
NF 01.30

today:
WU 5.00 and nothing worked to get him back to sleep
E 6.50 solids
S 7.20-8.00 slept together with him
E 8.00
S 10.10-10.50 could not extend the nap
E 11.45
S 12.50-14.20 he woke up after 35 min and I was holding him for a while, so he slept in my arms and then some more in the crib and I actually woke him up to avoid having similar situation as yesterday where another nap would be too close to BT
E 15.40
S 16.55-17.25 had a short nap in the stroller
E 18.50
BT 19.30
Unfortunately, his WU times and BT are not consistent due to short naps. His NFs as well as not at the same time every night, they are not even exactly 4 hrs after DF, sometimes it is 3hrs or 3,5hrs or 4,5hrs, I think he dii have 5hrs between meals at night couple of times, but not more than that.

As for his reflux I think it is under control but honestly the way the discussion went last time at the pediatrician I figured as long as he is gaining weight and seems most of the time Ok I will not go back to discuss reflux because of some discomfort because he is on the highest dose of meds now and there is not many other options of meds that we could get her, it is either powder or some kind of granules, powder I give now in the bottle with some water, but granules have to be mixed with some puree and taking into account how he is totally rejecting solids so far I do not want to switch to granules. I also use special thickened formula, I stopped BFing just a couple of days ago and now he gets most of his feeds from formula and only 2 feeds are my frozen before breastmilk.

As for sleep he used to be sleeping in a co-sleeper next to me but at 5 months (2 weeks ago) we first put him in a crib in our room and one week later we moved him in a separate bedroom but I moved together with him and sleep now on a sofa bed in the same room as him, the idea was for me to move back to our bedroom after a week or so, but i am not in a hurry. Also, the head of bed is elevated.

For his sleep routine I carry him around on my shoulder saying a night verse and then I softly sing kind of a lulluby (just repeating "good night Mattias sleep tight", it rhymes in my mothertongue Sometimes while signing I take him in the cradle hold and give him paci but he seems to like it less now so now after my shoulder he goes straight down, I give him paci, place his lovey in his sight and reach and just sit next to the crib shushing and holding a hand on his hip, he fusses and moves around but I do not pick him up unless he starts to cry, then I pick him up for a 30-40 seconds and put him back, he seems to like to fall asleep on his side, but does not have skills to turn into his preferred position so I just roll him from side to side every now and then and sometimes after one roll he would fall asleep, sometimes it takes 4 or 5 rolls, and sometimes he falls asleep on one side, sometimes on the other. So, for now I am almost happy with our going to sleep routine as it does not require too much effort. It does take time sometimes, when is OT, but nothing critical.

Also, I think it has to be mentioned that he is definitely a thriving not-so-little-anymore boy, he is now 8.4 kg (18.52 lb) and 70 cm (27.56 in), which puts him in seventy something percentile for weight and ninety something percentile for height. Everybody, like literally everybody who sees him, tells me he is so big for his age and I totally agree: everytime during a walk I see babies that already walk that are the same size as my 5 months old boy who does not even sit unassisted yet

oh my, motherhood is such a strange dichotomy: one moment I am crying from tiredness and cannot get out of bed for 20 minutes and a few hours later I cry happy tears at the laughs and shrieks of my LO! It is so difficult sometimes but I cannot imagine my life without him! I love him so much!

[LaraDaisy]

And I forgot to mention: this week he had fever on Tuesday the whole day and a bit on Wednseday and he has been chewing on stuff and drooling like crazy since 3,5 noths old, so I suspect he might be teething as well.

[creations]

I have little time just now as I am heading out with my DS for a play date but I wanted to stop by and drop off a hug for today.
It really is incredibly hard when they are this young and not sleeping well so you get no rest.
Try to continue the routine of a rest period for you at least once per day.

Very briefly though. My temptation would be to increase his A time significantly. Rather than 2 to 2.5 hrs I'd be looking at trying out 2.5 to 3hrs.  This is the guidance time for 5.5 to 6months but some LOs need longer than the guidance times.  Basically you are having a rough time right now which can't really get much worse, can it? So in my mind the risk of some OT is well worth the possibility of extended naps.
There IS a chance it will be too long for him and he may begin to wake at 20 mins (OT) instead of 30 however there is also a chance that he will be easier to extend and tired enough to begin taking longer naps. Even if a few days show OT nap WUs LOs can settle into a new routine with a longer A over a period of days and the OT 20 min naps pass, turning into decent nap lengths instead.

My own LO needed an a time at least 2 weeks ahead of his actual age and would have been on at least 3hrs for his first A of the day by now.

Have a think about what I've said. You do not need to change anything immediately.
If you would like to try this approach I'd suggest increasing over a few days or a week to reach those times.
I would also focus on one nap per day to extend rather than all of them. I suggest nap 1 to extend, nap 2 your own rest period but it's up to you.

Have a good day. I'll be around again later x

PS What is the powder meds he is on for the reflux? Is he actually showing signs of pain or not?

[LaraDaisy]

Hi again!
I think I will try to increase A times, not sure how he will take it though... Today for example he was dead tired after 1,5 hrs every A time, I made efforts to keep him awake. But I suspect it might be linked to his general well-being as well - he was extra fussy and whiny today, had fever in the evening and woke up couple of times screaming after BT. I suspect he is teething but so far no signs of them...

PS What is the powder meds he is on for the reflux? Is he actually showing signs of pain or not?

He is on Nexium (omeprazole), in sachets, it is actually also granules but they are water soluble, 10g per sachet, I give him now 1,5 sachet per day, the maximum is 2g of omeprazole for 1 kg of bodyweight, so he was 7.4 kgs at 4 months and has 15mg as maximum dose. About 2 weeks ago he was ok, no signs of pain, some spit ups and delayed burps, but now I am not sure... I have not figured out if he is teething or he might also be in pain from reflux, becasue sometimes he cries after the feed, sometime she refuses to feed, sometimes he gives the high pitched cry at night to immediately fall asleep after, sometimes he wakes up screaming dring naps and nightsleep as well, some days he is whining like crazy for hours - all this in the last 2 weeks. This is my first baby so it is hard for me to to be sure what is wrong exactly.

I would also focus on one nap per day to extend rather than all of them. I suggest nap 1 to extend, nap 2 your own rest period but it's up to you.

Just out of curiosity, why it is not advisable to try to extend all naps of the day, go all in, so to speak? Is it for my own sanity? or is it also better for him?

[creations]

If he is poorly his sleep and A times will likely go off track anyway.
Fever, screaming wake ups etc can be a sign of teething or a reflux flare, we often had a reflux flare up and cold-like symptoms during teething. It could be either.  I've asked for some more experienced reflux eyes to have a look.

Have you tried any meds before sleep, ibupropfen for instance, to see if this helps with teething pain?

Just out of curiosity, why it is not advisable to try to extend all naps of the day, go all in, so to speak? Is it for my own sanity? or is it also better for him?

Really for your own sanity. It is incredibly hard work if you have EW and then spend every single nap time in there trying to extend, even more exhausting if you are on your own for all A times (I think you said DH is away) and have the basic house chores such as sterilizing bottles etc to do alone too. Honestly I think it's just too much to take on. If you prefer to go 'all in' then that's fine. Some people do prefer to swiftly implement a new routine and get the whole thing done and dusted in a few days or a week. If this is your preference I'd suggest waiting until he is clearly well.  I can expand on how to approach it if you decide to go this way.

[*Liz*]

The thing with reflux, is medicated or not it will cause issues from time to time. My 6 month old is my third refluxer, and he is basically fine, but I had a NWing for 1.5 hrs last night because he trapped some wind and it made him throw up. He then had a really sicky day today and so bust his naps. It really is just how it goes sometimes though. The only other thing to think about is whether things have go worse since you switched to formula - cows milk protein intolerance can mimic reflux but is sometimes hard to spot when you are breastfeeding.

I agree with Creations and I would move towards 2.5-3hrs A time. My DS does that now, but might drop to 2 hrs towards the end of the day if they are all been short naps.

Many of us AP a bit in the early mornings. My DS is still in his co-sleeper with me, but if he EWs I stick on some white noise and do my best to ignore him until a reasonable hour. Sometimes if I am tired I swap with DH (he sleeps in the spare room mainly), and DH lies with him and squeezes his hand until he drifts off again.

On the day you just posted - he actually pretty much slept 11hrs which is basically a full night. Early bedtimes do not always work at this sort of age unless your baby like to add on lost sleep. It tends to work better when they are only on one nap. An EW is technically 10hrs of night sleep or less, not the time on the clock, and not all babies do full 12 hr nights despite what the sample routines say.

[LaraDaisy]

Hello ladies!

If he is poorly his sleep and A times will likely go off track anyway.
Fever, screaming wake ups etc can be a sign of teething or a reflux flare, we often had a reflux flare up and cold-like symptoms during teething. It could be either.  I've asked for some more experienced reflux eyes to have a look.

Yes, by today I do suspect his reflux is acting up as well: he is taking full feeds only when half asleep or sleeping, today during the day I could not get more than 80ml into him. I will see fow a few more days how it goes, because, he is not consistent, the day before yesterday he was eating fine, and if he continues like that for a few more days I think I will take him to see our pediatrician.

Have you tried any meds before sleep, ibupropfen for instance, to see if this helps with teething pain?

I give him paracetamol in case of fever if it bothers him. But I think I might try your suggestion - to give him paracetamol after bath.

If this is your preference I'd suggest waiting until he is clearly well.  I can expand on how to approach it if you decide to go this way.

I think I will wait a bit... My DH is only coming back Sunday, besides, I am battling a cold now myself, so for sure I do not have energy to spare. I will stick to one nap per day for now.

he only other thing to think about is whether things have go worse since you switched to formula - cows milk protein intolerance can mimic reflux but is sometimes hard to spot when you are breastfeeding.

I read that cow's milk protein sensitivity is found in high percentage of reflux babies and I stayed off dairy almost all the time I was EBFing. But I do not think he has it, because now that he is mostly formula fed his digestive system seems much better (the painful gas is gone), even though I had a very strict diet while BFing...

Just out of curiosity, why it is not advisable to try to extend all naps of the day, go all in, so to speak? Is it for my own sanity? or is it also better for him?

Really for your own sanity. It is incredibly hard work if you have EW and then spend every single nap time in there trying to extend, even more exhausting if you are on your own for all A times (I think you said DH is away) and have the basic house chores such as sterilizing bottles etc to do alone too. Honestly I think it's just too much to take on. If you prefer to go 'all in' then that's fine. Some people do prefer to swiftly implement a new routine and get the whole thing done and dusted in a few days or a week. If this is your preference I'd suggest waiting until he is clearly well.  I can expand on how to approach it if you decide to go this way.

On the day you just posted - he actually pretty much slept 11hrs which is basically a full night. Early bedtimes do not always work at this sort of age unless your baby like to add on lost sleep. It tends to work better when they are only on one nap. An EW is technically 10hrs of night sleep or less, not the time on the clock, and not all babies do full 12 hr nights despite what the sample routines say.

On one hand early BT is good for some free time in the evening for me, but I would like to keep it somewhere around 19-30. I think it gives me more chance to have a later WU time

[creations]

Thanks for stopping by Liz

Lara, for now then I'd try to increase the A as mentioned but keep a thought to the chance he is feeling poorly too.
And I hope you are feeling better soon too.

Let us know how it goes x